Template:Did you know nominations/Simone Kues


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:18, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Simone Kues

 * ... that Simone Kues (pictured) won a silver medal at the 2014 Women's World Wheelchair Basketball Championship in Toronto?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Harriet Leveson-Gower, Countess Granville
 * Comment: Pic is there if you want it

Created by Hawkeye7 (talk). Self nominated at 23:02, 28 June 2014 (UTC).


 * Symbol confirmed.svg The article is new enough, long enough, well cited and created by a trustworthy editor. I have verified the hook. Antrocent (&#9835;&#9836;) 01:54, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg Did you check the sources for close paraphrasing? And is YouTube a reliable source? Yoninah (talk) 11:15, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the video is a reliable source. It was produced and is managed by the International Paralympic Committee which can be expected to be a reliable source for information on paralympic athletes. Antrocent (&#9835;&#9836;) 11:40, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * So the reference should be changed to reflect the correct "publisher". And what about the close paraphrasing? Yoninah (talk) 12:29, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Done. Antrocent (&#9835;&#9836;) 23:42, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg I have pulled this from prep as there is no mention of the 2014 games in main body text, nor can I find any mention of Kues as a 2014 medallist in any of the other sources. Gatoclass (talk) 09:08, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, it's always been there under "Achievements". I have no explanation for your inability to find it. Hawkeye7 (talk) 04:14, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Firstly, hook facts are supposed to be in main body text, not in lists. Secondly, I already checked that source and it only lists Kues as being on the team roster, it doesn't confirm that she actually played in the championship match and received a silver medal. Gatoclass (talk) 04:23, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The hook must mentioned in the article and cited with an inline citation. It doesn't have to be in the main body text. And the entire team receives medals whether or not they play in the gold medal match. As a matter of fact, though, Simone played in that game, for the entire forty minutes. I've added this to the article. Hawkeye7 (talk) 04:52, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

GC, H is right. There's no reason a hook fact can't be in a list or table. What ought to be required (but for some reason isn't) is that the hook be locatable by a straightforward text search on the obvious keywords from the hook e.g. silver.

H, GC was right -- the source didn't say anything about the team winning the medal -- it says they're the "team to beat." And your new source doesn't either. Even if it did we need something saying that this person was awarded the medal (whether for her own effort or as part of a team). We can't connect the dots that she was on the team, and the team won this medal, and somewhere else it shows she played the whole game, and ... It may seem obvious to you, but not the rest of us. I have no idea how medals are awarded -- maybe only the captain gets one, for all I know. This is what the OR and SYNTH rules are for. There ought to be a listing, somewhere on the site, name by name, everyone who got a medal. EEng (talk) 05:02, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * That's the way that the official site is laid out. Commons has a picture (right) of Kues (left) wearing the medal during the presentation ceremony. Annika Zeayen is getting hers. Next up is Laura Fürst, who didn't play in the match, but is still getting a medal. I've added an additional link to the competition schedule and results. Hawkeye7 (talk) 05:10, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Would This news item do? It reports the game and lists all the players. Hawkeye7 (talk) 05:31, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * That looks fine to me. Gatoclass (talk) 05:36, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Added it to the article. Hawkeye7 (talk) 05:55, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm satisfied with that as a cite for the hook, but as E E ng also expressed some reservations about the sourcing, I'm reluctant to restore the tick until hearing from him. ? Gatoclass (talk) 06:10, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * you may have noticed that there's been a lot of discussion lately at WT:DYK about how outdated, shambolic and sometimes self-contradictory the current ruleset is. You may in fact be correct to state that the rules do not currently specify that the hook fact needs to be in "main body text", but IIRC that has been the convention here for quite a few years now: it looks as if this is yet another issue that needs clarification in the rules. Other than that, I think Eeng has said pretty much what I was going to say. Gatoclass (talk) 05:23, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Hey, that's E E ng to you, Cat-class. EEng (talk) 05:52, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea to me. I've added it to the body text, so it's neither here nor there for this article. I've personally reviewed articles in the not-distant past where the hook fact has been (a) a quote in the lead; (b) in an image caption; or (c) buried in a footnote. Hawkeye7 (talk) 05:47, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I've had a look at my copy of the rules of wheelchair basketball. Competitions must provide a trophy for the captain of the winning team, and medals and trophies for the coaches and players of the gold, silver and bronze teams. A maximum of 19 medals are awarded per team. There's always 12 players. In Toronto, trophies were awarded to the captains of all three medal-winning teams, and medals went to the players, coaches, assistant coaches, team managers and physiotherapists. (The reference above contains a picture of the German team wearing their medals.) Hawkeye7 (talk) 05:47, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Look, I'm not the All-High Hook Approver, and I really don't like being the bad guy. But while I'm completely prepared to believe that Team Won Silver + She's on Team = She Got Silver, we're just not allowed to operate that way. Isn't there a page on the site that just flat-out lists all the medal-wonners year by year? I thought, "Oh, I'll just look at the photo you supplied above, go to the source, and there will be a caption we can use as a source." But it looks like you took the photo yourself. Look, can we just make the hook
 * ALT1  that Simone Kues (pictured) was member of the silver medal–winning team at the 2014 Women's World Wheelchair Basketball Championship in Toronto?

That avoids the question. Or how about
 * ALT2 that Simone Kues (pictured) has been a member of seven medal-winning wheelchair basketball teams since 2005?

But let's see what other editors think -- if others are comfortable with the original ALT0 I'll go along. EEng (talk) 07:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * EEng, the reference I supplied - which is now in the article - includes both a player list, and a picture of Simone wearing her silver medal. Hawkeye7 (talk) 08:33, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, I missed the pic with the little caption "Silbermedaillengewinner". Ah, German! EEng (talk) 14:48, 6 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg ALT1 verified. Gatoclass (talk) 08:00, 6 July 2014 (UTC)