Template:Did you know nominations/Sine Cerere et Baccho friget Venus


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Victuallers (talk) 07:25, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Sine Cerere et Baccho friget Venus

 * ... that art around 1600 AD illustrating the proverb Without Ceres and Bacchus, Venus freezes may reflect the patronage of Haarlem's brewers?
 * ALT1: ... that art around 1600 AD illustrating the proverb Without Ceres and Bacchus, Venus freezes may promote the virtues of beer, reflecting brewers' patronage?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Open Letter on Artificial Intelligence
 * Comment: Furius translation from German, with additions by Johnbod

Created by Furius (talk) and Johnbod (talk). Nominated by Johnbod (talk) at 02:33, 1 May 2015 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svg The page was created 25 April 2015 and nominated 1 May 2015 so new enough. Long enough. Certainly interesting enough, and QPQ has been fulfilled. However, some sections require further references, such as the statement "Thus the phrase was probably a well-known proverb at the time as well" and the sentence following it, the last part of first sentence in the 'Subject in Art' section and the line "In particular Jan Mathijsz Ban was a leading brewer, a friend of artists and a significant collector, spending many weeks touring Italy with Goltzius". There is an empty External References section that should be filled or removed. Also, the hooks, whilst interesting, are unclear and their source is not easily found on the page. I think a clearer hook with a direct (referenced) link to the page would work better, for example:
 * ALT2: ... that Sine Cerere et Baccho friget Venus translates as Without Ceres and Bacchus, Venus freeze and is a metaphor for the proverb "love needs food and wine to thrive"?
 * Disclaimer : I know nothing of this subject and this may need someone with more knowledge to also review the article.
 * Dennisthemonkeychild (talk) 10:47, 1 June 2015 (UTC)


 * Removed EL, added ref re Terence. The other 2 points are covered by the next reference after them. I don't agree re the hooks, and the brewing connection is mentioned & refed in the very short lead, as well as having its own section. ALT2 doesn't work: the article doesn't say or ref it is a metaphor as stated, nor is it. I don't really want the Latin in the hook - by the time you have explained it there's no room for anything much else, as ALT2 demonstates. Johnbod (talk) 13:00, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg Thanks, I understand your point re the hook. I personally like the Latin, it makes me want to explore the article, but it is a long one so it does become wordy. With regard to the 1600 in your hook, can we change that to 1600AD so it's clear it's a date? When I first read the hook I thought it was a number and therefore it didn't make sense at first.
 * AD added to both hooks. Thanks. Johnbod (talk) 15:04, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Either way, this DYK is good to go from my point of view (I prefer the first hook out of the two).
 * 14:40, 4 June 2015 (UTC)