Template:Did you know nominations/Slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:46, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia

 * ... that the formation of national parties among Slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia led to family members, like first cousins Gonos Yotas (pictured) and Apostol Petkov, fighting in enemy bands? Sources: "Members of the same families could belong to different nationalities" (Vermeulen 1984, p. 240), "comme dans toute guerre civile, on assiste au déchirement violent du tissu social avec des tueries ou des confrontations armées entre voisins, covillageois ou membres de la même famille. Les Mémoires des anciens combattants sont pleins de détails de ce genre : des Andartès grecs ayant des liens de parenté avec des comitadjis de l’ORIM" (Kostopoulos 2011), "Ὁ Γκόνος Γιώτας, ἀπό τό Πλουγκάρ Γιαννιτσῶν, πρώην κομιτατζής καί από τό 1905 στήν ὑπηρεσία τοῦ Γ. Προξενείου Θεσσαλονίκης, πρωτοξάδελφος τοῦ «φοβεροῦ» βούλγαρου βοεβόδα Ἀποστόλ Πέτκωφ" (Καράβας 2014, p. 102) --- please see article bibliography for full bibliographical references
 * ALT1:... that the reluctance of Slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia to support national causes triggered a wave of terrorist violence from nationalist bands? Source: "Greek and Bulgarian bands engaged in an unconventional guerrilla struggle to command the hotly disputed loyalties of a population largely indifferent to the sirens of nationalism." (Livanios 2008, pp. 19-20, discussed at greater length in Livanios 1999)
 * ALT2:... that the national allegiance of Slavic speakers in Ottoman Macedonia became was the apple of discord object of rivalry for between the Balkan states vying for dominion over the region? Source: "the main issue at stake in Ottoman Macedonia was the loyalties and perceived ‘national orientation’ of the Slav-speaking population" (Livanios 2008, p. 7)
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Guido Jung
 * Comment: Alternative images commons:File:Apostol Petkov.jpg (for first hook and ALT1), or commons:File:CampesinosMacedonios--picturesfrombalk00frasuoft.png or commons:File:Macedonia - Point of View of the Serbs.jpg (for ALT1 and ALT2) -- see article for captions.

Created by Ashmedai 119 (talk). Self-nominated at 17:47, 12 March 2018 (UTC).


 * Newness OK, length OK, within policy OK, spot check of two sources show no plagiarism or close paraphrasing, hooks seem OK, Althook 1 seems preferable to me, QPQ ok: Symbol confirmed.svg.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 09:46, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Article is tagged with expand section, and the supplementary guidelines bar articles with dispute tags on them (specifically, guideline D6). — howcheng  {chat} 22:47, 27 April 2018 (UTC)


 * My thanks to ·maunus for his review of my nomination. I am just wondering now whether it would be possible and whether you would agree to modify the hook you find preferable (ALT1) by inserting a wiki-link in the words "wave of terrorist violence" linking to the article on the Macedonian Struggle.


 * howcheng, I have now removed the "expand section" template that I had placed when I first created the article, as (despite some personal reservations concerning whether it is in ideal form) the section seems to have been sufficiently expanded after edits made by another user. I would be thankful if you could please let me know if you think there are any other issues to be resolved before proceeding with this nomination. Best, Ashmedai 119 (talk) 22:15, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I made an edit: the cited source (EB1911) doesn't actually say that 150,000 of the Slavs in Macedonia were Muslim; it only says that 1 million were Orthodox Christian, with nothing about the remainder. There's also another sentence that could use a citation. — howcheng  {chat} 00:38, 7 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Symbol question.svg Wow, this has stalled. I've reviewed this and it seems mostly fine, but I have minor concerns about OR/neutrality. First, the use of the word band - group would be a more neutral term, band sounds pejorative. Second, for ALT1, the source doesn't use terrorism, it uses guerrilla - yet the article/hook uses more pejorative word terrorism. And this may be nitpicking, but apple of discord phrase in last hook is very poetic, I'd rather stick the more academic terminology like in the source (issue). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  04:37, 5 September 2018 (UTC)


 * Dear Piotre, I thank you for your review of my nomination and for raising a number of questions regarding some points of fine nuances, which may well have escaped my attention, due to my not being a native speaker of the English language, but, having read your comment, I thought I ought to point out that (i) the term "bands", while it might seem pejorative, is used as a matter of course in the relevant bibliography (it will suffice to refer anyone concerned to a simple Google Books search, whose results verify this -- see e.g. here and here), (b) that the description of the use of violence by armed groups as a campaign of "terror" is indeed described as such more than once in the second source that is cited to support ALT1 (for which full reference is available at the article's "Bibliography" section and which one can check here), and, once again, is a recurring feature of scholarly writing pertaining to the study of the period, most importantly in Duncan Perry's monograph, The Politics of Terror, and (iii) that "apple of discord" has indeed a literary flavour, one might say, but I am worried whether replacing this with "the main issue at stake" might verge too close to copying a secondary source and, for this reason, replaced it with "the object of rivalry". I have also added a couple of wikilinks to ALT1 and ALT2. Looking forward to your response, Ashmedai 119 (talk) 12:45, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg AGF that the wording is neutral (I am not a native speaker either, nor am I an expert is this terminology, through again, coming from a sociology literature, I still find band/terrr a bit jarring). But barring anyone else raising an issue with those words, AGF for GTG. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  03:11, 20 September 2018 (UTC)