Template:Did you know nominations/Sukorambi Botanical Garden

Sukorambi Botanical Garden

 * ... that the Sukorambi Botanical Garden (pictured) is home to 300 species of herbs, 200 species of flowers, and 500 books?
 * Reviewed: Deutsche Bank building, Bremen

Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Self nominated at 10:16, 4 February 2014 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svg New enough, image freely licensed, 1940 characters, hook in article.  Can't check the sources directly, since I know nothing of Indonesian, but aside from limited use of the place's own website (reliable for things like its location and when it was founded), it's dependent on what appear to be solid independent sources.  However, I see two problems, both comparatively minor.  (1) None of the archived sources work for me; for example, https://www.webcitation.org/6N8E0uCLX?url=http://www.disperindag.jemberkab.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2013/05/profil-Peluang-Investasi-2012_03.pdf is a blank page, even though the original page at http://jurnal-online.um.ac.id/data/artikel/artikelF78BCA502D8AE2F25E929693F71A3EED.pdf works fine.  Did you make some sort of mistake, or is it a problem with my browser?  If the latter, I'll not make any more objections.  (2) Some herbs have flowers: the hook (and the text from which it's taken) make it sound as if the two are different, e.g. "300 species of gymnosperms and 200 of angiosperms".  Is it perhaps a matter of translation from the source text?  Please revise it to clarify what they're talking about.  Nyttend (talk) 03:51, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * WebCite and its archives are loading for me, it could be your browser. For point two, the source says "300 jenis tanaman herbal atau obat-obatan. Juga ada kebun bunga dan kebun buah yang terdiri atas lebih dari 200 jenis tanaman bunga dan buah." ("300 kinds of herbal or medicinal plants. There are also flower gardens and orchards consisting of more than 200 flowering and fruiting plants"). I don't have access to the Latin names here, sadly. I'm also a good day's drive from the garden now, so it's highly unlikely I'd be able to go back for clarification. Do you have any suggestions for alternative wordings? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:17, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:V requires that the sources exist, and WP:CITE says to cite them properly, but no policy demands that a properly cited source be loadable by my computer :-) No objections on that; I just wanted to make sure that they worked for you, so that I could know that you'd not made a mistake such as a typo.  As far as the species, I'm not sure what to say.  It seems to me as if Indonesian is making a distinction that we really don't have in English.  Let me go to WP:RDS and ask about the official terminology.  Nyttend (talk) 06:16, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * No worries, we can wait. Personally I think the distinction is man-made (one is for medicinal use, one is for beauty), but phrasing something like that succinctly in a hook would be a pain. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:43, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Nyttend, I think the question at the Science desk has been solved satisfactorily (and I've implemented the change in the article). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:19, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * That's funny: I didn't get notified that you replied. I'm still quite uncomfortable with the hook: the modifications you made in response to WP:RDS are helpful in the article, but only with those modifications is it workable, and we can't overload the hook with the clarifications.  Perhaps "500 species of plants", or "300 species of medicinal plants", or "a library" (how many botanical gardens have libraries?), or something like that?  Of course the second suggestion would require slight modifications to the text.  Nyttend (talk) 01:25, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Notifications are not generated by mentions in Template space. If you want to notify someone, you should probably do so on their talk page. M AN d ARAX  •  XAЯA b ИA M  22:50, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The library was meant to cash in on the "The Last of These Is Not Like the Others" phenomenon (see TV Tropes), so I definitely wanted to take advantage of the library... shame I didn't get a picture of it. However, I think the hook here, so long as there is clarification in the article, is acceptable. I could provide an alt, such as "... that the Sukorambi Botanical Garden has flowers, fruit, herbs, and a library?" or something similar, if absolutely necessary. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:34, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Regardless of official botanical terminology, "flower" and "herb" are commonly used in a mutually exclusive manner, so I would have no objections to this idea, or "300 medicinal/200 flowers/500 books", or other ideas along those lines. It's simply that "flowering plant" sounds much more scientific, much more formal, much more precise than "flower" — everyone would agree that a dandelion is a flowering plant, but (at least in the USA) nobody thinks of them as flowers.  Nyttend (talk) 04:15, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Is "species of flower" common enough that we can avoid the use of the word "plant"? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:56, 7 February 2014 (UTC)
 * What do you mean, "...300 species of herbs, 200 species of flowers...", or something else? No comment if "something else", but I would happily pass what I put in quotes.  And I'm surprised by the comment from Mandarax above; I thought the Notifications thing worked equally in all namespaces.  Nyttend (talk) 02:09, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Alright, hook is changed above. "Species of flowers" feels wrong to me, but it appears common enough on the interwebs. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:16, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg Thank you for the quick response. As I see it, we need to be precise when using more scientific-sounding concepts such as "flowering plant", while common terms such as "flower" can be used more casually: more-common terms get used with less precision, so people aren't going to expect "flowers" to have as firm of a meaning as they would "flowering plant".  Nyttend (talk) 02:19, 8 February 2014 (UTC)