Template:Did you know nominations/Tank steering systems


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:22, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Tank steering systems

 * ... that Porsche's Elefant tank destroyer used an electric steering transmission system similar to a Diesel-electric train?


 * Reviewed: Chuffer Dandridge

Created by Maury Markowitz (talk). Self-nominated at 19:03, 6 September 2016 (UTC).
 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg No issues found with article, ready for human review.
 * &#x2713; This article is new and was created on 16:36, 06 September 2016 (UTC)
 * &#x2713; This article meets the DYK criteria at 14731 characters
 * &#x2713; All paragraphs in this article have at least one citation
 * &#x2713; This article has no outstanding maintenance tags
 * &#x2713; A copyright violation is unlikely according to automated metrics (3.8% confidence; confirm)
 * Note to reviewers: There is low confidence in this automated metric, please manually verify that there is no copyright infringement or close paraphrasing. Note that this number may be inflated due to cited quotes and titles which do not constitute a copyright violation.
 * &#x2713; The media File:VK4501 Tiger(P).jpg is free-use
 * &#x2713; The hook ALT0 is an appropriate length at 116 characters
 * &#x2713; Maury Markowitz has more than 5 DYK credits. A QPQ review of Template:Did you know nominations/Chuffer Dandridge was performed for this nomination.
 * No overall issues detected. Automatically reviewed by DYKReviewBot. This is not a substitute for a human review. Please report any issues with the bot. --DYKReviewBot (report bugs) 19:21, 6 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Citation for hook needs to be at the end of the sentence not the end of the paragraph. Also I thought the first attempt at an electric transmission was the Saint-Chamond (tank).©Geni (talk) 23:50, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Cite copied. There were three platforms using the original Holt transmissions, adding... Maury Markowitz (talk) 14:32, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately there also issues with the image copyright. Probably going to have to remove it.©Geni (talk) 22:29, 16 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I have changed the image and the hook to match. Maury Markowitz (talk) 14:17, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg Issues have been addressed.©Geni (talk) 18:27, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg Geni, a human DYK review needs to explicitly cover all of the DYK criteria: you've only mentioned hook citation and image. Please mention all the criteria in your review, from newness and length through copyvio/close paraphrasing checks and neutrality. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:12, 17 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Symbol voting keep.svg Fine then. Hook citation and hook image are fine. New enough. More than long enough and the text has no copyright issues as far as I can tell. Neutral as far as these things go. My experience is that DYK isn't interested in image copyright but for the record File:Stuart m5a1 cfb borden.jpg is a likely copyvio since it fails to credit the author of the image it was cropped from. File:دبابة الحلفاء أثناء الحرب الباردة.jpg might be PD US gov but the copyright claim connected with it is false. Apart from anything else the metadata says it was taken in 1985 not 2005. File:Char St Chamond tank.jpg Questionable. Seems more likely that a publicity pic of a french tank was taken by the French government not the british (who had little involvement with the French tank program). File:VK4501 Tiger(P).jpg no evidence that this is public domain as claimed.©Geni (talk) 20:07, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg I came to promote this, but the name "Elefant" needs a source as it is not mentioned in the Ogorkiewicz book. I also noted that the image submitted with this nomination cannot be used with the hook as it does not appear in the article. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:28, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Addressed. All this because someone else mis-labeled a photo. :rolleyes: Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:01, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg Thank you. Replacing Geni's tick. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:25, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Removed from Prep 6 due to two issues raised at WT:DYK: the "easter egg" bold link, and the fact that the image, which was promoted, does not appear in the the tank steering systems article itself, a requirement of images for DYK. BlueMoonset (talk) 02:16, 6 November 2016 (UTC)


 * That's it, I give up. This article was passed three separate times and failed four. Clearly the rules have become much more important than the content. Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:36, 6 November 2016 (UTC)


 * ALT1 ... that Porsche's Elefant tank destroyer used an electrical tank steering system similar to a diesel-electric train's?

Why someone couldn't do that during the post is beyond me. Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:48, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol voting keep.svg This should be good to go with ALT1 as per Geni. The image is appropriately licensed and now included in the article Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:13, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
 * * Symbol possible vote.svg I was going to promote ALT1, but I notice that the article doesn't actually say the Elefant's steering system was "similar to a diesel-electric train", it only says that such transmissions were suitable for the largest tanks, and the Elefant, like other German tanks, used petrol motors, not diesels. Gatoclass (talk) 13:59, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * The cite on the sentence about the Elephant in the body states "twin gasoline generating units with direct electric drive". I added that cite specifically to stop the possibility of this potential complaint. I failed. As it appears I am no longer capable of writing a hook that could possibly meet the now impossible rules of DYK, perhaps you could be so kind as to suggest one so that we might be able to clear this nom, which has now been here for three months. Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:08, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Gatoclass (talk) 06:28, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
 * ALT2: ... that tank steering systems utilized in World War II included an electric drive system on the Porsche Elefant tank destroyer (pictured)?

Gatoclass (talk) 07:41, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
 * ALT3: ... that the steering system on the St-Chamond tank (pictured) weighed five tons?


 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg New reviewer needed to check the two new ALT hooks and the new image that goes with ALT3. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:38, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * On it. — Llywelyn II   22:24, 15 December 2016 (UTC)


 * First, thank you Mr Markowitz for an excellent new article and sorry it's been such a pain to get it through the DYK process. Some of the complaints were just bad luck (w/r/t a mislabeled photo), some were well-taken (You can do better than easter eggy links), and some were very much not so (Elefant has an entire article to cover its name and wtf cares about the cite location so long as the fact is in fact cited? If that became an actual rule somewhere we should kill it with fire). You're not incapable of doing a hook: you just need to make it a bit more straightforward and remember the rest of us are volunteers, too. Some can power trip but we're all just trying to do quality work. Your article has some comma issues but is otherwise good stuff. Please just be patient while we work out the kinks in your hook.

In any case, hopefully User:BlueMoonset and other regulars will notice the frustration the recent rules ratcheting is causing and realize that driving away excellent editors for citation placement and other folderol is not helpful for the project.

As for the article, new enough at time of submission; well-cited and within policy; no copyvio per Earwig. Of the two boring ALT hooks left, the ridiculous photo of the St-Chamond wins out. Cited; pic is public domain. G2G with ALT3. — Llywelyn II   23:46, 15 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Given that there is about a 10% chance any of these images will be used in the end, I'm still at a loss as to why it wasn't just dropped in the first place. Maury Markowitz (talk) 22:20, 16 December 2016 (UTC)