Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas Lavy

Unresolved POV issues

Thomas Lavy

 * ... that while attempting to cross the U.S.-Canadian border in 1993 Thomas Lavy declared he had 130 grams of ricin poison?
 * Reviewed: Have yet to review an article but will do so soon.IvoShandor (talk) 13:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Created/expanded by MajickJonson (talk). Nominated by IvoShandor (talk) at 13:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * alt1: ... that while awaiting prosecution under the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act Thomas Lavy committed suicide in his jail cell?
 * alt2: ... that Thomas Lavy was arrested by the FBI for possession of ricin two years after declaring he had 130 grams of the poison at the U.S.-Canadian border?

IvoShandor (talk) 13:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)




 * Symbol possible vote.svg Article has a number of sources asking "who". The inclusion of these whos and ambiguity over who said it mean the article has POV issues.  The who tags need to be fixed before this article can go further.  Has not edited to say what he has subsequently reviewed.
 * Symbol question.svg Article has complete inline sources, but the who tags imply some sourcing issues.
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Article passes newness and length text.  Hooks are properly formatted.  All images have an appropriate copyright tag or fair use rational.  Spot check for plagiarism: here, here, here, here show no concerns.
 * Pictogram voting keep.svg That there is no plagiarism of offline sources and that they support hook. Support for propose hook, alt1 and alt 2. --LauraHale (talk) 04:18, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

POV problems need resolving and tags need to be removed by addressing the issues. --LauraHale (talk) 04:18, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol delete vote.svg Issue identified 6 days ago with no response.--Ishtar456 (talk) 02:10, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't fail this one yet. Neither the nominoator nor the creator has contributed since 24 February or earlier. --Orlady (talk) 03:41, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * ok.--Ishtar456 (talk) 04:16, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

I have updated the article by simply removing the "who" tags since they all have references to them; saying "Media reported that he..." and linking proper footnotes does not necessitate a "who" tag, that's the purpose of the footnote. If you really want me to say "Author James Carolson and MSNBC and the Virginia Times-Herald reported..." I can, but I think that's unnecessary. MajickJonson (talk) 13:25, 4 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I haven't looked at the article before today. It's an impressive piece of work. However, in reading through, I did see some places where I can see a need for additional attribution ("who"):
 * Who said he was "honest and forthright" when he explained to Customs officials ...? This is a subjective characterization. Was this a characterization by one of the Customs agents, by Lavy himself, or by some other observer?
 * In the passage "likely the books Silent Death and another some media reports dubbed The Poisoner's Handbook and others dubbed The Prisoner's Handbook," I get the impression that it's the author of the Wikipedia article who has determined that these are "likely" the books referred to more generically. If my impression is correct, that's WP:Original research, which is unwelcome in Wikipedia. Additionally, it appears that "some media reports" and "others" are WP:weasel words. Similarly, the following sentence that says "There were also reports mentioning a third book..." seems weaselish. Actually, it appears that "some media reports" and similar locutions are references to exactly one article. Based on what I've seen, the best way to deal with this is to revise the text to explicitly identify who said what, and figure out whether the Handbook was "Prisoner's" or "Poisoner's" and stick with that. (My money is on "Poisoner's Handbook.") For example you might say: "The BigTime Wire Service reported that there were two books in his car, one describing how to extract ricin from castor beans, and another discussing ways to poison with toxic compounds. The Mudville Daily News identified the books in his car as Silent Death and The Poisoner's Handbook." (You will need to fill in the sources and make sure the information is accurate. I've deliberately avoided figuring out which source said what, as I haven't looked at all of the sources.)
 * I found a transcript of the reference in footnote 2 (Michael Dorman) at sciencemadness.org. Presumably this is the article from Newsday, with roughly the same title, that is cited elsewhere in this article. Please indicate as much as you know about where this was published originally. ScienceMadness is not a reliable source, but if that's where you got the article, you at least need to WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT (in this instance, in the reference citation, not in the text).
 * The wording "In violation of the Posse Comitatus Act prohibiting the use of the military in domestic policing" looks like it could be POV. That wording doesn't belong in the article without some sort of explanation of who says it was a violation. For example, the article might say that an investigation two years later determined that the raid had violated the Posse Comitatus Act, or it might say that "Radio commentator Benjamin Button described the raid as a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act."
 * There are a couple of other issues, but the above comments should give you the guidance you need on what to look for.
 * Also, I notice that the second paragraph of "Arrest and death" has a link to the disambiguation page Jonesboro. Should this refer to Jonesboro, Arkansas? --Orlady (talk) 03:59, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the help, though it sounds more like criteria for Good Article or Featured Article; I think the article really does meet DYK criteria as it stands...but to clarify, the Dorman article appeared in Newsday January 7, 1996. And it's not Original Research the titles of the books, most news stories say there were "two books" or "many books", and give as an example, one of those two titles ("two books including the book Silent Death", "many books including one titled the Poisoners Handbook", etc). "honest and forthright" were the words of FBI agent Ivian Smith, as cited. And yes, Jonesboro AK. MajickJonson (talk) 06:56, 6 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg Maybe you don't think that these issues are important, but I don't believe the "DYK community" will accept this article for mainpage display in its present form. --Orlady (talk) 19:25, 9 March 2012 (UTC)