Template:Did you know nominations/Tjerita Si Tjonat, F.D.J. Pangemanann

F.D.J. Pangemanann, Tjerita Si Tjonat

 * ... that the main character of F.D.J. Pangemanann novel Tjerita Si Tjonat (cover pictured) is evil without a single redeeming feature?
 * Reviewed: Crime in Indonesia; Killing Time (Star Trek novel)

Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Self nominated at 12:35, 15 June 2013 (UTC).


 * -- Tito ☸ Dutta 12:39, 15 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Symbol confirmed.svg Both the articles are created today, long enough, hook is supported by RS. Good job. Add the QPQ, when done. -- Tito ☸ Dutta 12:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment: Had the hook been only promoting the book article, we wouldn't have passed it because it does not showcase real world. But isn't there any other alternative available? §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 10:35, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Something about the author? Or perhaps that Tjonat is considered a Robin Hood-like figure in oral tradition? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:43, 18 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh yes! Robin hood bit would be interesting and would cover the real world involvement. But you need to add that in author's article also. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 06:54, 19 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Nothing is in the rules or supplementary guidelines requiring a hook fact to be in both articles. Here's an ALT. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:05, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Thats weird. But even if unwritten isnt it obvious that the hook should be present in both articles so readers aren't surprised to not see it? I suppose would also review the ALT. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 07:57, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it would be ridiculous to require it to be in both articles. How Tjonat is viewed now has little to no relevance to Pangemanann as an author and would only be included in his article as padding. I'll post at WT:DYK. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:58, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The discussion is pointing towards the hook facts only needing to be in at least one article. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:41, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay! §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 04:08, 20 June 2013 (UTC)


 * ALT1 ... that although Tjonat of F.D.J. Pangemanann novel Tjerita Si Tjonat (cover pictured) is evil without a single redeeming feature, modern takes on the character portray him as Robin Hood?
 * Symbol voting keep.svg AGF on offline source and ALT1 good to go based on 's review. QPQs are now done. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 04:08, 20 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Symbol possible vote.svg I have reopened this discussion because I see some problems with the hook. It states that "modern takes on the character portray him as a Robin Hood-like figure" but the source says: A well known character in Malay folklore was Si Pitung, who had emerged as a homespun version of Robin Hood. Si Ronda, Si Jampang and Si Tjonet were other champions who had entered the popular imagination. The source doesn't appear to refer to Tjonat specifically as a "Robin Hood", but just as a "champion". Also, this perception of the characters appears to be linked to the time of the Indonesian war of Independence against the Dutch, rather than a "modern portrayal" as stated in the hook. So I think the hook may need some work. I haven't removed it from the queue at this stage because of the disruption that causes; instead I have rotated the queue to allow some more time to resolve this issue first. Since I am about to log off for some hours however, hopefully some other users can resolve this issue in the meantime. Gatoclass (talk) 18:50, 25 June 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, I think I'll propose an alt myself as it might save time:
 * ALT1: ... that although the protagonist of F.D.J. Pangemanann novel Tjerita Si Tjonat (cover pictured) is evil without a single redeeming feature, he was portrayed as a popular hero in wartime Indonesia? Gatoclass (talk) 19:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * This makes it pretty clear that he's still considered a champion (although it takes the view that Tjonat was historical). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:01, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I can't read Indonesian, but I'll take your word for it, so you can tweak the hook accordingly if you like. Anyway, I think this issue is resolved so I will close this discussion now. Gatoclass (talk) 07:36, 26 June 2013 (UTC)