Template:Did you know nominations/Venetian arsenal, Gouvia

Venetian arsenal, Gouvia

 * ... that many captains instead of repairing their damaged ships at the Venetian arsenal (pictured) in Corfu chose to sink them?
 * Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Vildmarksvägen

Created by Dr.K. (talk). Self nominated at 06:20, 7 December 2013 (UTC).


 * The hook just reads a little bit awkwardly to me, could this be an alternative without changing the meaning?
 * ALT1: ... that instead of repairing their damaged ships at the Venetian arsenal (pictured) in Corfu, many captains chose to sink them? --Bcp67 (talk) 07:55, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Perfectly fine with me. Thank you very much for your suggestion. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  08:05, 7 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Symbol question.svg OK, review-wise, the article is long enough at just over 2,000 characters and newly-created on 7 December. The article is well-referenced and mostly cited to written sources, some of which are quoted from in the references section. There are no obvious copyvios on the written sources shown in Google books. Links all fine, no dabs.
 * The hook is correctly formatted although as the author of the alt hook I am not sure if am qualified to pronounce on it and would appreciate another's reviewers eye on this, please. The hook fact is cited and the citation is correctly placed but I am uncertain if a narrow interpretation of the reference quite backs it up - it says "They were supposed to undertake one campaign a year in peacetime, being repaired in winter at the Gouvia Arsenal. But activity there was confined to careening and basic maintenance; and the number of ships steadily diminished, with many captains scuttling their unseaworthy vessels." Personally I'd say this is OK but again inexperience leads me to ask for a second opinion on it. Thanks. --Bcp67 (talk) 11:04, 7 December 2013 (UTC)


 * FWIW, the reason I phrased it thus is that the phraseology used by the reference is "...with many captains scuttling their unseaworthy vessels." To "scuttle" means to drill a hole to the ship to make it sink. This means that the vessel never went to the shipyard but was sunk at sea. This, imo, is a deliberate avoidance of going to the arsenal which was located on shore. The only other option would have been to take the ship on shore, discover it is not serviceable and then take it back at sea to scuttle it. This seems tedious and far-fetched, especially, to be undertaken by "many captains" who would have seen what happened to their predecessors and therefore would not have been bothered to attempt the service on shore at the arsenal. Finally, if against all logic, the captains chose to first go to the docks, then scuttle their ships at sea, the arsenal would have been extremely busy carrying ships in and out of the docks to be scuttled at sea. But the reference says that "activity steadily declined", which is the exact opposite. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  18:03, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

I would also propose an even more neutral ALT2 hook:
 * ALT2: ... that instead of bringing their damaged ships to the Venetian arsenal (pictured) in Corfu, many captains sank them?

Which simply states the facts per the source. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  16:42, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

If ALT2 fails, I propose ALT3:
 * ALT3: ... that the arches of the Venetian arsenal (pictured) in Corfu, have been described as "beautifully boned", "strong" and "impressive", "almost surreal", and "a striking collection of skeletal arches"?

Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  16:48, 17 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Original reviewer requests another reviewer to take a look; since then, there have been new hooks proposed that also need reviewing. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:31, 21 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you BlueMoonset. I would be ok with any hook getting approved. The reason I proposed the additional hooks was to speed this review up, but I don't think it had much of an impact. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις  06:03, 3 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Symbol voting keep.svg ALT1 approved. This hook is supported by the source (the source is offline, but a quote is provided), and I don't think it would be interpreted as meaning that captains took their ships to the arsenal before sinking them. The problem with ALT2 is that it's not immediately obvious (to me) that an arsenal is a place where ships are repaired, so it's better to have this spelt out. ALT3's fine, if a bit quote-heavy, but I personally find ALT1 more interesting. DoctorKubla (talk) 08:53, 8 January 2014 (UTC)