Template:Did you know nominations/Vision of Lear


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:33, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Vision of Lear

 * ... that Vision of Lear, the first opera by Toshio Hosokawa, is based on Shakespeare's drama and features elements from Noh theatre? Source: several
 * Reviewed: to come Mamie Garvin Fields

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 21:31, 13 November 2018 (UTC).


 * Symbol question.svg Article is just long enough. Would be great if it could be expanded a little. Hook is interesting and sourced to RS, as is the entire article. Nominated in time, no neutrality issues, just waiting for QPQ. --Al Ameer (talk) 21:42, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * , Gerda Arendt has added a QPQ. SL93 (talk) 03:54, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Forgot to add this to my watchlist, please excuse the delay. With QPQ done, I see no issues. —Al Ameer (talk) 04:19, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Returned from prep. This hook is almost identical to the one we ran on December 7:
 * ... that Toshio Hosokawa composed several operas based on Japanese Noh theatre, including Vision of Lear after Shakespeare?
 * Please submit a new hook. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 12:06, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I had submitted a different hook for Hosokawa but the reviewer prefered the opera (to Hiroshima, I couldn't believe it). This will be tricky. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:11, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * ALT1: that Vision of Lear, the first opera by Toshio Hosokawa, premiered at the 1998 Munich Biennale, with its librettist Tadashi Suzuki as director and designer of stage and costumes? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:16, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * ALT2: ... that a Japanese composer created an English-language opera for a German premiere? Yoninah (talk) 20:44, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for trying! I think the title, with that double meaning of "vision", is too good to be piped. The composer write in the international language music - it was the librettist who wrote in English. Munich Biennale is not only a notable festival, but also provides a time stamp for those who know a bit. (When the article was new, I created 11 bios one day.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:38, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, but do we need all that info about the librettist? There's too much information in this hook. Can we stop at the name of the festival? Yoninah (talk) 00:22, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * We don't need it, but I find it quirky. Don't know of a single other to have those four functions for one piece.
 * ALT3: ... that Vision of Lear, the first opera by Toshio Hosokawa, setting an English libretto by Tadashi Suzuki based on Shakespeare, premiered at the 1998 Munich Biennale? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:21, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, I see what you mean. ALT1 is hookier. Could you add a cite for Suzuki being stage director and costume designer? Yoninah (talk) 22:18, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I doubled the ref, it's under "Kurzinformationen" (Short info). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:38, 9 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Thank you. In English, we would write it this way:
 * ALT1a: ... that Vision of Lear, the first opera by Toshio Hosokawa, premiered at the 1998 Munich Biennale, with its librettist Tadashi Suzuki as stage director and costume designer? Yoninah (talk) 23:17, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
 * ALT1a still feels a bit too long and tries to cram a bit too much information into a hook. Is the mention of Suzuki really necessary here? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:52, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Answered just a few comments up. Not needed but unusual, and giving justice to the often overlooked librettists. We could add lighting design, even. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:45, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * If that's the case, I would suggest removing that part instead. It doesn't really add to the hook I'm afraid. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:49, 10 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Not sure I understand what "that's the case" is, nor "that part", sorry. - I tried to outdent a bit sooner, hope not to break it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:59, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I meant that as written, I don't think the hook should mention Suzuki, as the mention doesn't really add much to the hook (which seems to focus mainly on the opera itself and Toshikawa Hosokawa). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:01, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * What do others think? I wanted to focus on the opera, see original hook, but it was returned. Next interesting thing I noticed was the enormous role that Suzuki played. No idea what Toshikawa means. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:07, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry my bad, I meant Hosokawa. If that's the point, I'd suggest that you write a hook involving Suzuki instead, because if the focus is intended to be on him, then mentioning Hosokawa seems rather unnecessary (he'd already be linked in the main article anyway). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:12, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree that there's too much information in the hook. Gerda, we already connected Hosokawa with the opera in the hook on December 7. Can we go with something like:
 * ALT4: ... that Tadashi Suzuki, the librettist of Vision of Lear, also served as stage director and costume and lighting designer for its premiere at the 1998 Munich Biennale? Yoninah (talk) 10:47, 10 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes. (Although I think you wouldn't mention any other opera without composer, unless it's Magic Flute or something else everybody is supposed to know.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:03, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for saying yes! (I understand your point, but we really are trying to be short and hooky here, and the opera is linked for those who want to find out more about it.) could you approve ALT4? Yoninah (talk) 11:18, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Approving ALT4 as being interesting to a broad audience. Rest of the review per above. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 14:17, 10 December 2018 (UTC)