Template:Did you know nominations/Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme (J. C. F. Bach)


 * The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as |this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:30, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme (J. C. F. Bach)

 * ... that Johann Christoph Friedrich Bach (pictured) quoted in his chorale motet Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme within the third movement a chorale setting from a cantata by his father, in tribute? The verse begins with a lengthy anthem-like treatment, followed by a surprising tribute to the composer’s father:  a full quotation of setting of J. S. Bach’s cantata movement.  p. 2
 * Reviewed: Sartre: Romantic Rationalist
 * Comment: the wake-up call should come before Christmas

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 10:12, 3 December 2016 (UTC).


 * Symbol confirmed.svg Hook is cited to the Berkshire Bach Society, which itself is mentioned in RS so appears to be RS for matters pertaining to Bach. Article is new enough and long enough. Hook is appropriate length and interesting. Everything is NPOV. No close para or copyvio. Image is PD. QPQ done. A typically interesting and thoroughly prepared nomination for an excellent article by Gerda Arendt. All other policies met. GTG. LavaBaron (talk) 02:09, 4 December 2016 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, your hook is a little awkwardly worded and I wonder if it might be shortened, to something like:


 * (ALT1): ... that in the third movement of Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme, composer J. C. F. Bach (pictured), quoted from a cantata by his father, in tribute?"


 * or something along those lines? It is much shorter, avoids duplicated words and reads more smoothly to me.  The content is the same as your hook, so if you prefer it or something along those lines, I see no reason that LavaBaron (LB) could not give the tick.


 * On a delicate topic, I looked at the review you claimed for QPQ credit and it does not cover several of the criteria described at WP:DYKR, in my opinion. There is a slow / evolving change in standards for QPQ reviews taking place, with reviews that do not address the five main criteria increasingly being seen as incomplete.  There has also been considerable discussion at WT:DYK, with both LB and I as participants, and I don't want this nomination to get caught up in it, so allow me to say explicitly that (1) I will not oppose this nomination going forward, (2) I am not overturning the tick LB has given, and (3) I will not oppose LB using this review for QPQ should he so desire.  However, I do ask that you consider revisiting the review you did at Template:Did you know nominations/Sartre: Romantic Rationalist and addressing the remaining criteria.  I also ask that you try to cover them all in future reviews you undertake.  Thank you.  EdChem (talk) 12:03, 4 December 2016 (UTC)


 * It is much shorter but doesn't include some surprising facts, such as that the motet is three movements long (not mentioned: and every single one is long), and that the quotation is within one movement, not a separate movement. I took your suggestion "in tribute" to the original, - I wasn't sure if that's clear. - For the delicate topic: to tell a veteran editor such as Yoninah (and there are others) that her work is free of copyvio seems almost insulting to me. Check my other reviews, I am usually picky and detailed, but every once in a while I need something easy. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:17, 4 December 2016 (UTC)


 * I put the third movement at the start of the hook, so it is there, but I do see why you have gone with the awkward use of "within", so perhaps this is closer:


 * (ALT2): ... that the third movement of the chorale motet Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme contains a quotation from the Bach cantata, which composer J. C. F. Bach (pictured) included in tribute to his father?"


 * As I said before, I am not going to try to force anything, so you can just ignore me. I don't want to rob your hook of surprise or hookiness, but the original version is jarring to me when I read it, including the word "chorale" twice as well, so I'd like to find a way to smooth that out without altering your intent.  As for the review, I think it is desirable for all reviews to go to all criteria, and I think that will become the expectation for all reviews in time.  I am glad that it was not an oversight and that you did think of those criteria, and I do understand your reservation, but inconsistent standards and expectations are not going to make it easy for newer reviewers to see what they need to address.  Also, thank you for engaging with me and not taking offense.  EdChem (talk) 13:33, 4 December 2016 (UTC)


 * ALT2 is fine with me. English is not my first language, I am glad about language improvements. I changed "a" to "the" in it, short for "the cantata of the same name", if that's ok. Bach son could quote because Bach father ended (most church cantatas) in motet style, instruments colla parte. I though chorale would help unfamiliar readers to understand what all that German is. Chorale motet could be linked, but I try to avoid links to things other than the topic. - Reviewing: if it gets any more "teh rulez, teh rulez" I am out of DYK, after 600+ articles. If I tick an article, it's safe to present it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:42, 4 December 2016 (UTC)


 * As "chorale motet" has a distinct meaning, I've added "chorale" to ALT2 and struck ALT1. I'm glad the altered expression is fine with you, and I am certain that your English is vastly better than my German!   Do you want to tick ALT2?  EdChem (talk) 16:08, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg The QPQ meets recently established conventions for what is acceptable for a QPQ. Both Primary and Alt-2 are approved. LavaBaron (talk) 08:46, 6 December 2016 (UTC)