Template:Did you know nominations/torque amplifier

Torque amplifier

 * ... that Vannevar Bush's use of the torque amplifier solved a problem with the ball-and-disk integrator that Lord Kelvin found when he first considered the idea of the differential analyser over forty years earlier?
 * Comment: Should this be a two-fer with ball-and-disk integrator?

Created/expanded by Maury Markowitz (talk). Self nom at 14:53, 29 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Reviewed HMS Minotaur (1906)


 * Symbol question.svg The article only has two inline citations. It really needs more than this to be fit for DYK. --Odie5533 (talk) 20:33, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
 * To clarify, DYK requires a minimum of one inline citation per paragraph, in addition to the requirement that all the hook facts must be supported by inline citations by the end of the sentence involved. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:38, 11 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Focussing on the later for the moment, can you be more specific? I believe the inline cites in question do directly state the facts in question. Maury Markowitz (talk) 22:30, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * To aid closure: the second inline contains the text "Kelvin saw that such integrator arrays could solve differential equations, but was unable to overcome the problem of torque loss between stages", and then "Vannevar Bush came up with the technical fix, the torque amplifier, necessary to link Kelvin integrators into a single system that could drive other devices. The result was his Differential Analyser". This second statement is basically the hook, reworded. Maury Markowitz (talk) 22:49, 11 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I didn't notice any problems with those two cites at the time; my point was that in addition to the ones required for the hook, you needed to have at least one per paragraph in the rest of the article, since these two only took care of the final paragraph. However, there is one problem with the hook: the "fifty years" assertion. The only two relevant dates in the sources are 1931 for Bush's torque amplifier, and 1886 for Kelvin's harmonic analyser. That's 45 years at best. Unless there is some other dated information on these two people, I'd probably say "over 40 years", since the 1931 date is when Bush's paper was published with the solution, not when the problem was solved by him at MIT. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:06, 11 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok I get it. I have tweaked the hook. See if it works now. Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:18, 12 December 2012 (UTC)


 * It looks to me like the tweaked hook and the added inline citations should have done the trick, but you subsequently added "ball-and-disk integrator" to the hook. You're welcome to add a new article—it qualifies in terms of being a 5x expansion at the time you created this DYK submission—but it creates a few issues, though they should be as easily fixed as what you've already fixed. First, the added article has the same inline citation problem as the torque amplifier article did before you fixed them (in this case, only three of twelve paragraphs have inline citations, and additionally it only uses a single reference: DYK requires multiple reliable reference sources for each article. Also, the facts in the hook must be available and cited in both of the articles. Finally, one of the paragraphs stops in mid-word, and should be fixed before we get in a new reviewer to check this DYK submission. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:21, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Fixed! Maury Markowitz (talk) 11:18, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Maury, there's no reason the hook can't link to the ball-and-disk integrator article, it just can't be a bold link if you won't be bringing that article up to DYK standards. So I've restored that part for you. Assuming that you just want to go ahead with the original torque amplifier as a single-article DYK submission:


 * Symbol redirect vote4.png Complete review needed for this nomination. Thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 14:53, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol possible vote.svg Article big and new enough and includes citation on each paragraph.  But hook is too long at 206 characters. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:03, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I actually get 211 characters from "that" through "?". When I originally said the hook was okay, it was when "ball-and-disk integrator" was included in the hook as a second DYK article, and thus didn't count toward the total. Perhaps "considered the idea of" could be changed to "thought of"? That would take the total down to 199; another three characters could be shaved by changing "forty" to "40". Here's a 196-character ALT1 with both those changes:
 * ALT1: ... that Vannevar Bush's use of the torque amplifier solved a problem with the ball-and-disk integrator that Lord Kelvin found when he first thought of the differential analyser over 40 years earlier? —BlueMoonset (talk) 23:07, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Looks perfect! Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Hook is now short enough. Before I was not counting "that". Anyway hook is referenced and confirmed. good to go. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:20, 29 December 2012 (UTC)