Template talk:Cite Q/Archive 7

Archive URL and URL-status
Hello. I just tried using Cite Q for the first time, and as it has the potential to save me a lot of time going forward, I was hoping that someone might be able to address this issue:

When P1065 is specified, it is assumed that the original URL is dead, which in the following example is incorrect. This mirrors the behavior of the citation template when  is not set. However I was unable to find any Wikidata property for indicating the status of a URL. How do we solve this issue best? Is a new Wikidata property needed, or am I missing something?

→

--askeuhd (talk) 13:54, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Like this:  →


 * And as always, if you are inserting this Cite Q template into an article that has an established citation style, you'll need to add custom parameters to ensure that the displayed citation conforms to that style. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:27, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your helpful input. --askeuhd (talk) 08:32, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

How to make text appear in a specific language
Hello,

I am comming from Arabic wikipedia.

I have a question, how can I make text apperaed from using the template in a specific language? for example, I would like to have a reference completly in English (in Arabic Wikipedia).

Please ping me when answering. Michel Bakni (talk) 23:37, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

URL–wikilink conflict
This shows a "URL–wikilink conflict" for me:

.

int21h (talk · contribs · email) 15:00, 24 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Module:Cite Q retrieves a sitelink at line 520. After a bit of fidgeting about, at line 560 the module creates a wikilinked title for the citation.  Module:Cite Q does not account for pmc (nor, for that matter for url).  In cs1|2 templates, pmc automatically links title with an external link to the free-to-read source.  cs1|2 assumes that external links, no matter how they are created, have priority over internal links to Wikipedia articles.
 * You can get round this problem by explicitly defining title in the call:
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:48, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:48, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:48, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:48, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

author name order - a suggestion
My impression from working with this, is that the template determines the name to display two ways... 1) the label associated with the author's entity on Wikidata, or 2) a "object stated as" qualifier to the author's name on the "work, edition, volume, or whatever" entity cited. It seems me, however, that in many cases the "house style" name form used here can actually be determined from information that can, or should be, stored on Wikidata... specifically the "given name" and "family name" statements on the author's entity. This could of course still be overridden the same way here, if desired, but seems far more likely to guess correctly in the vast majority of cases, and would make adding these less painful. Jarnsax (talk) 05:23, 30 September 2022 (UTC)


 * I agree. int21h (talk · contribs · email) 22:02, 3 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Just as an example, compare the results of
 * and
 * The citation generated in the second case is obviously broken, it's returning the "as stated on the title page" name (I wrote this WD entities for this work), but if that was not defined, it would return the "entity label". Having to do it the 'first way' is far more painful, as can be seen from the markup. I know there are "issues" with performance when crawling a tree of linked items, so I'm not yelling "fix this right now" or anything, but it would definitely be nice (and help with consistent, proper citations) if you didn't have to define the first and last names every time. Jarnsax (talk) 23:17, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, thinking about this, "ideal" would be pair of toggle switches, one (in the invocation of Cite Q to create a citation) to set the name order displayed on the page, and one (in the code for Cite Q) that could be used to set the 'default' name order displayed on that wiki... there could be the option to fetch the "title page name" if wanted. (added later) In order to avoid the "picking the default" toggle from requiring the actual code of "Cite Q" from being different on each wiki, the code snippets for the various options can be put on a subpage and transcluded, with notransclude tags around the snippets that the particular wiki doesn't want as default. Jarnsax (talk) 23:43, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Let's get it in the sandbox. :) int21h (talk · contribs · email) 04:22, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually, thinking about this, "ideal" would be pair of toggle switches, one (in the invocation of Cite Q to create a citation) to set the name order displayed on the page, and one (in the code for Cite Q) that could be used to set the 'default' name order displayed on that wiki... there could be the option to fetch the "title page name" if wanted. (added later) In order to avoid the "picking the default" toggle from requiring the actual code of "Cite Q" from being different on each wiki, the code snippets for the various options can be put on a subpage and transcluded, with notransclude tags around the snippets that the particular wiki doesn't want as default. Jarnsax (talk) 23:43, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Let's get it in the sandbox. :) int21h (talk · contribs · email) 04:22, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

I think the purpose of the new properties and  was partially to solve this problem, but perhaps the module doesn't recognise these yet. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 06:13, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, we plan to use those properties at some point, but they're not yet in the Lua code. It needs someone who knows Lua to do that. :-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 16:28, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd just seen where those were mentioned 'over there' by ^ Mike, and was coming over here to mention it, lol. Much better than crawling the tree. Jarnsax (talk) 20:00, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Script warning: One or more {&#123;cite journal}} templates have errors
Please have a look at the currently most recent version of the Acanthomysis brucei page which renders an error message saying  in regards to the web archive URL http://web.archive.org/web/20221020204435/http://projects.dmcr.go.th/dmcr/fckupload/upload/147/file/SP_paper/2002%20Vol.23%281%29%205Fukuoka.pdf which is listed in the corresponding Wikidata item Q 114773597. Also, when editing the Acanthomysis brucei page (in source mode) there is a warning message saying. Does this error have anything to do with the "percent encodings" of the URL:s to the linked PDF file named "2002 Vol.23(1) 5Fukuoka-2.pdf" (e.g.  for spaces and   +   for the left and right parenthesis, respectively) or is there something else that is amiss? – Tommy Kronkvist (talk) 08:27, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The problem was at Module:Cite Q line 481 which I changed from:
 * local arcurl = mw.ustring.match( url, "%((.*)%)" )
 * to:
 * local arcurl = mw.ustring.match( url, " %((.*)%)" )
 * In the above code snippets, the variable  has a string of two urls:
 * The problem was the  in the   portion (an allowed character).  The above code was looking for just an opening   and it found that in the return value for   which contained:   so  got:
 * That thing is later assigned to archive-url. Module:Citation/CS1 choked on it because archive-url does not begin with a uri scheme and because there is a space character in the value assigned to archive-url.  By adding the space character at line 481, the code now looks for   which works because white space is not allowed in a url and is part of the separator between the two urls.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:33, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the fix! It probably solves the same issue on quite a lot of pages, not only the Acanthomysis brucei. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 21:17, 21 October 2022 (UTC).
 * My thanks also for the fix and to for raising the issue. MargaretRDonald (talk) 23:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the fix! It probably solves the same issue on quite a lot of pages, not only the Acanthomysis brucei. –Tommy Kronkvist (talk), 21:17, 21 October 2022 (UTC).
 * My thanks also for the fix and to for raising the issue. MargaretRDonald (talk) 23:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

This code is generating an error
when used in wikidata at https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Bibliography_of_Life MargaretRDonald (talk) 23:21, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The error message that you are seeing is not caused by Template:Cite Q or by Module:Cite Q. You should ask Editor User:AdrianoRutz to explain the purpose of this edit to Module:Citation/CS1/Identifiers.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 23:52, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Cite Q should probably grab the qualifier off of this, and append it to the series name (after a comma). Jarnsax (talk) 20:34, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

another "use case"
We might want to specifically show how to do something like where the use case needs to suppress everything in front of the "chapter" title. It's not 'obvious', and not an uncommon thing to need to do.

And yes, the markup is a bit 'pedantic' about stating things that I've suppressed. It's to attempt to produce the correct COinS metadata regardless of how we display the cite. People should do that. :) Hopefully I'm doing it correctly... I don't actually have software that uses it, so I can't check. Jarnsax (talk) 22:06, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

What does this template do?
The /doc could use an opening like: "This templates returns Y for input X. Its main feature is that ... with ... [something with Wikidata to do I guess]". DePiep (talk) 12:07, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I updated the documentation. Is this sufficient? Thanks for asking.  Bluerasberry   (talk)  15:48, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, puts me on the right way. Will spend more time when application comes in sight. I've added an example, and ce'ed first line into more non-initiated wording (revertable ce proposal). DePiep (talk) 16:09, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * @DePiep I tried to tweak what was said to make it as clear and explicit as possible. Feel free to play with it. :) Jarnsax (talk) 21:52, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Made an adjustment. Tried to prevent insider-jargon (perfectly correct descriptions, but not that explaining). I think module/template-editors-aimed documentation could be elsewhere. HTH. DePiep (talk) 21:59, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I think that's much better than my version, and says the same thing. Jarnsax (talk) 22:07, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * We just don't want to (when all this gets translated) accidentally be telling random editors elsewhere to look on WD for an actual written citation. Jarnsax (talk) 22:21, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll leave it from here, getting out of my depth. DePiep (talk) 23:13, 16 October 2022 (UTC)

Feature request: Somehow indicate corresponding file is on commons
For example,



We have the full text on commons and it is linked to using the "document file on Wikimedia commons" property on wikidata. However you wouldn't know it from the citation. Wondering what the best way to link to the full text from the citation would be?

Possibilities:


 * Link the title to the commons file (it's currently linking to the pmc website). I guess it might be redundant because it is free on the pmc website, but I can imagine cases where it is not. The commons file is more direct and doesn't require a second click.
 * Or, create a new "commons" identifier for CS1 module, which will link directly to the file. (change to CS1).
 * Or, put the green "unlocked" button on the wikidata when it has the commons link (change to CS1) to indicate it's available from the wikidata page.

Thoughts? Mvolz (talk) 14:14, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The commons file is more direct and doesn't require a second click. For me, from the citation above, getting to the article of record is one click from the doi.  It is also one click from the pmc (article title link is a mirror of the pmc link).  Assuming that there were such a thing as a cs1|2 commons parameter that would link to the article at commons ( ?), it takes me two clicks to get to the readable form of the article: first click, second click.
 * Because cs1|2 has title-link, I don't see any need for a commons parameter.
 * The Wikidata Q37636856 link does not link from the citation to the source but rather links to a metadata page so the access icon does not apply. This is the same as the pmid link from which you can also get to the article of record.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:11, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The Wikidata Q37636856 link does not link from the citation to the source but rather links to a metadata page so the access icon does not apply. This is the same as the pmid link from which you can also get to the article of record.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:11, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Two titles in wikidata result in language listed twice.
If the wikidata item has two titles, even if one is deprecated, it lists it as. See CBFB. Trilotat (talk) 13:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Example of this issue? CBFB doesn't use.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 13:57, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

different "issues" of the same edition, in different formats
Hardcover, softcover, ebook. All the "same edition". They get different ISBNs, different Google Books IDs, and sometimes the LCCN only applies to some of them. In at least some cases, the 'ebook', or a later paperback, has it's own LCCN. See .... just as an aside, what the LoC catalog calls an 'invalid isbn' isn't actually invalid, the LCCN just doesn't apply to that 'issue' of the edition.

Editors are, understandably, picky about such things in the sources they cite... they want to cite the exact source they used (and duh, lol). Actually "doing this" can, also, be 'painful'. See my efforts at User:Jarnsax/citations/publishers.

I think it would be "easier to use" if we could tell Cite Q which distribution format we want to cite, and have it use the qualifier to filter out the desired ones. Otherwise, we kinda need a separate entity for "exemplars" that are cited somewhere to avoid having to override it in the markup.

And yeah, probably needs someone competent to play with Lua. Jarnsax (talk) 20:27, 15 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Similar logic could be used to grab the correct (and original) pub date. Jarnsax (talk) 21:09, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not clear what filtering you expect the template do do. If you wish to site the eBook, give the QID of the item representing the eBook; if you wish to cite the hardback, give the QID of the item about the hardback. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:41, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Jarnsax, if you want to use a book entry in wikidata as the basis for a reference, then create a wikidata item for the exact version used as the reference. In that way the wikidata item will have one ISBN-13, etc. In the language of the book world, the paperback edition is not the "same edition" as the hardcover edition. Ask any librarian, book dealer, or book collector. Often the paperback edition comes out months or years later than the hardcover, in a smaller format, and paged differently. StarryGrandma (talk) 22:26, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Use with Template:sfn
Hi, I'm a big fan of cite Q, and have been using it with the sfn reference style in e.g. bass trombone, but recently its use was reverted on contrabass trombone with this edit. Can someone explain what I did wrong? Apparently, "Cite Q doesn't work correctly with sfn templates. The only working options are to use Cite Q inline, or use another cite template instead." If this is true, then is that something we can fix here in Lua, and if it is false, I'd like to know what I'd need to do to make sure sfn doesn't result in no-target errors. Cheers —Jon (talk) 19:18, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * You might start by visiting which will tell you how to enable the  error messaging.  There are eight short-form references that show sfn error: no target errors at your version of Contrabass trombone (permalink).  Seven of them work (false positive errors); the eighth (Yeo) does not.
 * The seven false positive errors are present because the Bevan, Guion, and Herbert templates do not include a value for date.  Module:Footnotes, the engine that renders, reads wikitext of the  templates and the wikitext of the  templates.  From that reading, the module attempts to construct correct CITEREF identifiers.  It then attempts to match  CITEREF identifiers to  CITEREF identifiers.  When there is no match, the  template emits a sfn error: no target error message.
 * I think that Editor ActivelyDisinterested's edit summary is not quite correct. Because it is often necessary to explicitly override  author parameters with last / first parameter pairs for use with  templates, explicitly stating date can (should) be done at the same time.  Doing that will ensure that  and  work together.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:05, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Cheers, I fixed it by adding the date parameter as suggested.—Jon (talk) 03:56, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:05, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Cheers, I fixed it by adding the date parameter as suggested.—Jon (talk) 03:56, 11 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Cheers, I fixed it by adding the date parameter as suggested.—Jon (talk) 03:56, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Now on en:Wikiquote
This template is now available on en:Wikiquote; see q:Template:Cite Q. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:02, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Author processing timeout
Q93150764 processing causes a Lua timeout due to the three thousand cited authors. Is there any way to short circuit author processing so it will render? int21h (talk · contribs · email) 01:27, 19 October 2022 (UTC)


 * For info  does not solve this issue.  Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:29, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Restored as unresolved. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:05, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Retractions
can you amend this template so that retractions handled like errata are? You did this in the sandbox for errata, but seems to be operational without the sandbox notation. Trilotat (talk) 19:42, 22 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Your ping did not work; but in any case RexxS is no longer active here. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:05, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-automated synchronisation of code across projects
I've just been told of mw:Synchronizer, a script which can be used to facilitate the synchronisation of code, hosted on the Mediawiki wiki, across projects, and which may be extendable. Can we make use of it?

Is there much forking of Cite Q code across projects, and could that be made context-dependent in shared code, instead? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:25, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Chapter format
Chapter titled italicized when it should be in quotation marks: Did I enter something wrong? —Michael Z. 03:10, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Title with question mark
The title ends with a question mark, so the period should be dropped. Or is there a parameter to override the punctation for this field?



—Michael Z. 03:11, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

url-status for url-archive
Just a thumbs-up for "consider how to use |url-status=" which is on the TODO list. There was at least one editor (some time ago) who removed archival information for citations on the grounds that the articles were not (yet) dead. After some discussion, s/he pointed out that as long as I included |url-status=live, then s/he would consider that acceptable. So the question is, I presume, whether this should be decided in Wikidata or as an override on Wikipedia - or what the default should be: live or dead? The default in the citation template appears to be 'dead', so there's a risk of having to type '|url-status=live' into all the Wikipedia 'cite Q' usage if we don't want to upset people who prefer to read the live URL than the archive - typically with a lot more surveillance-capitalism privacy violation. Boud (talk) 00:51, 24 March 2023 (UTC)


 * url-status field must be linked to the Wikidata property. If this property is set to, then main URL must be replaced with archive URL. Otherwise, archive URL may be additionally shown in the end of the citation. D6194c-1cc (talk) 07:12, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Mammalian kidney is based solely on the Cite Q template, all the citations have wrong default url-status. D6194c-1cc (talk) 07:16, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Unknown values
Cite Q doesn't handle unknown values with qualifiers. Here is example of citation with unknown value:. The property can be used to display textual representation of unknown item. D6194c-1cc (talk) 11:16, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Unknown illustrators
Some items can use the property with unknown value just to show that publication is illustrated. An unknown value must not be visible, unless illustrator is specified in qualifiers. See d:Wikidata_talk:WikiProject Books for details. D6194c-1cc (talk) 11:24, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Template usage across Wikipedias
Hi! The last WikiWorkshop included a developer track (cc @Pablo (WMF), @Scann (WDU)) to foster collaborations between researchers and developers, with the aim to come up with hacking projects that could be worked on during the upcoming Wikimedia Hackathon.

During the corresponding "Improving citation metadata" session (cc @Nidiah), @Fnielsen wondered (please correct me if I missunderstood you) whether there is an estimate of how much the CiteQ template is used across Wikipedias.

This seemed to be an easy enough task to be addressed as a hacking project during the hackathon. However, we are not sure if it has been done already.

@Pigsonthewing, @Mike Peel, @RexxS, @Adamant.pwn, @Ederporto, @LWyatt (WMF), do you have any information about this? Diegodlh (talk) 09:43, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I wondered during the session :). WDQS with a SERVICE query can fetch usage for individual papers and we use that in Scholia (together with a DOI search), see, e.g., https://scholia.toolforge.org/work/Q21090025#wikipedia-mentions. The Wikipedias queried are limited. I have been thinking about making a database of Cite Q citations, so more elaborate queries could be done. &mdash; fnielsen (talk) 13:38, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, @Fnielsen! Thanks for the clarifications. So, as I see it, the problem with what we currently have is that we have to choose a work (e.g., a paper) and only then ask WDQS which Wikipedia articles cite it via Cite Q. Is that correct? That is, if we wanted to get all Cite Q occurrences this way, we would have to repeat the search for all works in Wikidata, individually. Correct?
 * On the other hand, just to make sure, the database you are proposing would be a snapshot that we would have to update from time to time. Is that right?
 * Thank you! @Nidiah and I will be happy to introduce this proposal in the pitching session of the Wikimedia Hackathon tomorrow :) Diegodlh (talk) 14:47, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

What is going on with Cite Q|Q45979098
This Cite Q generates a peculiar (to me) result at A. Heather Eliassen.

What is that Author77 error? If it's series ordinal 77, that's and not so peculiar. But maybe it's series ordinal 78, that's which obviously isn't a real person. I'm also not sure what that "cite journal" template is doing there. I appreciate any clarification or advice. Trilotat (talk) 04:33, 7 June 2023 (UTC)


 * It's . See how causes the same error.
 * Trilotat (talk) 05:04, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I have worked around this problem in the article. If the template is not going to display all of those parameter values, it should probably drop them instead of passing them along to Cite journal for processing. The Cite Q citations in that article are still out of conformance with WP:CITEVAR in multiple ways, as is very common with this problematic template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the repairs on the wikipedia article and for the edit summary. Just to be clear, none of the references used Cite Q, but I understand your point. Trilotat (talk) 12:05, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Right. Because only some of the citations in this article use Cite Q, the Cite Q templates need significant modification to conform to CITEVAR. This need is typical when you have a mix of CS1 templates and Cite Q, but the need is not usually met. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:46, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Locations in report citations
Suggestion: It'd be useful to include locaction information in Cite_Q citations to reports (comparison in sandbox), since the location of the publisher / commissioning organisation / authoring organisation is often highly relevant (indeed usually more relevant than a book's publisher's city!). Either drawing from the of the  or maybe the  of the cited item itself? T.Shafee(Evo &#38; Evo)talk 06:02, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Removing fallback to P1810
Hello! I've made some changes at the module sandbox (diff) which remove the fallback to for authors' names. Using P1810 for this is semantically wrong, because this is simply not what P1810 is for: P1810 is for storing what the is named as, which would be the work that's being cited, not the author. Only using (with fallback to the author item name or unknown author) is correct, because P1932 is for what the  is named as, which would be the author. If anyone objects to these changes, please let me know. Tol (talk &#124; contribs) @ 02:02, 18 June 2023 (UTC)


 * . Tol  (talk &#124; contribs) @ 19:13, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Mass removals
About were removed in the last day and a half, possibly bot- or script-assisted, in favor of "cite thesis" instead (search-on-page for thesis) with no resulting improvement to the page. Mathglot (talk) 07:56, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Are the replacements in any way worse? I'm non involved with these replacements, but if they don't make the page worse, and reult in the cite being readable/editable more esily on enwiki (in edit mode), and more easily findable as a thesis (by using the specific cite thesis instead of the generic Cite Q), then I don't see the issue here? Looking at some examples, it seems like the editor is adding small changes to make the cites more consistent (e.g. making sure that the type of thesis and the name of the University are alaways included). Fram (talk) 08:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I picked one of the contributions at random, at Helen Leach, and found that the change from Cite Q to Cite thesis fixed a CITEVAR problem, improving the page. Citation #9 in that article had no period after the author's middle initial, and it used commas to separate the items in the citation, unlike all of the other citations in the article, which use periods. After changing to Cite thesis, citation #9's punctuation matched that of the other citations in the article. That looks like an improvement to me. This template has caused CITEVAR problems for its entire existence, and replacing it with a Citation Style 1 template like Cite thesis, or using custom parameters, usually fixes the problems. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:48, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, the replacements are in every case worse; not least since they loose the additional functionality which Cite Q has over other citation templates; for example automatic update if the paper or thesis cited is marked as retracted on Wikidata. This behaviour is disruptive, done without consensus (and your RFC to prohibit the use of this template failed, you'll remember) and needs to stop (and be reverted). If it's bot driven, it is unlikely to be approved, and the bot should be blocked. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:53, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Funny, right below people aexplaining how the changes are actual, visual, current improvements, you simply claim that they are "in every case worse", claiming a highly hypothetical case (right, a 1927 thesis will be retracted, sure)... Please stop trying to claim that someone improving articles is disruptive just because they no longer use your template. Fram (talk) 10:17, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is a strange and invalid argument. Just in case I was extremely lucky in my first random click, I picked another article at random, Dianne Sika-Paotonu. The improvements are clear from this citation version to this version. The edit fixed an invalid date ("1 January 2014" to "2014") and correctly converted commas to full stops, matching the other citations in the article per CITEVAR. – Jonesey95 (talk) 12:21, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I looked at the first on the list (Jacinta Ruru). I think the Cite Q usage was originally placed there by the person who later replaced it with cite thesis. The CITEVAR problems not withstanding, is it inappropriate for an editor to go back and change the template they used? Trilotat (talk) 13:08, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Wow it's not very nice to find yourself being discussed without being tagged in. There were discussions on my talk page back in March, it would have been polite if someone had mentioned I was being discussed here too.

While I cited Altmetric tracking as an issue for the thesis project, which it is, the more relevant point is that in every case the citation I made was an improvement because Cite Q does not include the institution the thesis was submitted to as a part of the citation. That's a pretty fundamental part of a thesis citation. Yes, the vast majority of the citations I changed were ones I had made in the first place, and I wish the thesis project team had chosen a different template at the time. However we believed that Cite Q is a good thing, and were hoping it would be improved to do a better job of pulling thesis data from Wikidata (we did start a discussion here with how it cites theses). No improvement has happened. We also knew we would be adding URLs for digitised theses later, and didn't want to have to adjust citations individually. I would love for Cite Q to be fixed to include the institution a thesis was submitted to, and the repository that publishes the metadata, and handle dates and author punctuation etc better. But until it does, being criticised for switching to a different template that makes a better citation seems pretty unfair. DrThneed (talk) 04:47, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries. Your edits were being criticized by editors who were unable or unwilling to see that they were CITEVAR-related improvements. Thank you for these editing improvements, and my apologies for not pinging you or linking to this discussion from your talk page. That was an oversight on my part; I probably did not think to do so because your edits were improvements rather than problems.
 * As for improvements to this template to help avoid CITEVAR problems, I have been asking for them on this talk page for years, to little avail. I have lost hope that this template will ever be compatible with the most commonly used citation templates without significant customization. People who use this template with the naive assumption that it will work like Cite journal and its siblings will, unfortunately, be advised its adherents to read the very long, intricate documentation, which humans tend not to do. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:28, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * As for improvements to this template to help avoid CITEVAR problems, I have been asking for them on this talk page for years, to little avail. I have lost hope that this template will ever be compatible with the most commonly used citation templates without significant customization. People who use this template with the naive assumption that it will work like Cite journal and its siblings will, unfortunately, be advised its adherents to read the very long, intricate documentation, which humans tend not to do. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:28, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

trans-title = ?
The documentation currently has "Title not in English" in the "Done" section. How can the equivalent of the usual citation parameter |trans-title=Dog (for |title=Chien) be added as a declaration about an element in Wikidata? In Module:Cite Q I don't see anything that gives me a clue. Currently I'm doing trans-title as an override from the Wikipedia side.

OK to add this to the To do list? Boud (talk) 21:55, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

This was also asked on 30 Jan 2022 by. Boud (talk) 21:57, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Cite Q chapter broken
I seem to be having a new issue using Cite Q for chapters. Three months ago I was able to cite a chapter of a book (e.g. this item on this page), but now instead of Cite Q pulling information about the book, there's an error (" : |journal= ignored (help) "). Does anyone know how I could fix this? --Prosperosity (talk) 22:38, 22 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps not broken, per se, but never supported? In the ~/testcases, there is no example of this template supporting a chapter qid.
 * As the module is written, it creates a template but gets confused because it understands  from  as the name of a journal so  adds Grey's Folly: A History ....   never properly supported periodical parameters (and never should have).  That bug was recently fixed in the Module:Citation/CS1 suite which now emits the error message that you see at this reference.
 * From poking around on the internet, it appears that Green is the author of "From Hawaīki to Howick...", a contribution to La Roche's Grey's Folly: A History .... Your use of  for this source misinterprets that and assigns Green as the author of all.  If I understand the source, it should be cited like this:
 * does not support that sort of citation.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:55, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It should. Added to "to do" list. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:37, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * does not support that sort of citation.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:55, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
 * It should. Added to "to do" list. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:37, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It should. Added to "to do" list. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:37, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

use with sfn style?
Hi, I've been experimenting with Cite Q on Book of Helaman. I'm reusing the same sources a lot (and I'm in the process of adding more)--is there a way to use Cite Q with a more shortened footnote style? Is there a recommended way to reference multiple page numbers from the same source? Thank you. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 15:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I set up one sfn template in this revision, but I reverted it because it shows me a (possibly false positive) sfn "no target" error that I don't have the energy to dig in to right now. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Missing 2020. Another way to write that would be:
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:32, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ohhhhh this is very useful! I love this. I'm going to tell everyone I know, haha. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 21:46, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ohhhhh this is very useful! I love this. I'm going to tell everyone I know, haha. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 21:46, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Looking for script or other way to convert Cite Q to CS1 template
I'm looking for some easy way to convert a Cite Q template instance to a CS1 template like Cite journal to fix CITEVAR problems. As an example, a helpful editor naively added a Cite Q template to Common pochard, where all of the citations are written in "Last, First" author format and a bot can easily fix missing doi-access information in CS1 templates. I would like to convert that Cite Q template to cite journal so that it is easier to fix the author information. Is anyone here familiar with a tool, script, template, or other method of resolving this common CITEVAR problem? Thanks in advance. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:18, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Not a script but an 'other way'.  supports yes so:
 * Copy that output, paste over the original, edit as you see fit, and publish.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:36, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oof, RTFM. I had searched for "convert" in the doc, but not "expand". – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:44, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:36, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oof, RTFM. I had searched for "convert" in the doc, but not "expand". – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:44, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Output causing template error
On the article Elachista ochroleuca, Cite Q is invoked to cite d:Q124030180, a journal article.However, the output is throwing a template error ignoring the journal parameter, as if it were wrapping cite book instead of citation per the template documentation. Not sure what's going on here but I'm uncertain how to fix it. Folly Mox (talk) 05:27, 13 January 2024 (UTC)


 * According to Google books and WorldCat the source is a book. It has an ISBN number rather than a doi. It is issue 19 of a series of publications, not a journal issue. StarryGrandma (talk) 08:16, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The problem is with the wikidata entry. Otago Conservancy Miscellaneous Report Series is treated as if it is a journal, using the wrong property designation ("published in" = P1433), when it is just a series of publications. Such reports are often in series of publications treated as books. The correct property is "series" = part of the series (P179). StarryGrandma (talk) 08:39, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * SG is right. Either fix the Wikidata entry or use cite book. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:49, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I have fixed it on wikidata:
 * - StarryGrandma (talk) 15:51, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the fixes. Is it incorrect then that Cite Q wraps Citation, and now chooses a template dynamically based on source type? I get how that would fix chapters, since Citation doesn't support them, but the documentation doesn't seem to reflect that. Folly Mox (talk) 01:50, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I get how that would fix chapters, since Citation doesn't support them Bullshit.  See this example:
 * internally selects, , or, when it can't decide, falls back on.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 02:11, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Geez sometimes I wonder whether my device accesses a different mediawiki version but I accept it's probably just faulty memory. I might have been thinking of trans-chapter or script-chapter?? I feel like one of the set wasn't supported last summer. Is there like a table somewhere with one axis CS1|2 templates and one axis parameters, with little tick marks where they work together? I feel like I get this wrong all the time. Folly Mox (talk) 10:05, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Neither of those parameters are 'new'.
 * I made one of those grids once: 20-something columns by 120+ rows was pretty damn unwieldy so it got deleted.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:15, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * All right, maybe I'll try to build one in my userspace as a memory aid. Apologies for my confusion. Folly Mox (talk) 15:10, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Neither of those parameters are 'new'.
 * I made one of those grids once: 20-something columns by 120+ rows was pretty damn unwieldy so it got deleted.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:15, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * All right, maybe I'll try to build one in my userspace as a memory aid. Apologies for my confusion. Folly Mox (talk) 15:10, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:15, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
 * All right, maybe I'll try to build one in my userspace as a memory aid. Apologies for my confusion. Folly Mox (talk) 15:10, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

How do I add doi access?
I've decided to start working on Category:CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI errors, and this template keeps popping up. Short of replacing it with a normal cite journal, what's the best practice? Never mind, it seems like it accepts  correctly, disregard ~ ฅ(ↀωↀ&#61;) neko-channyan 17:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The editor who wrote Wikipedia_Signpost/2023-12-04/In_focus wonders if there is some way to fix this at Wikidata. If there is not, that would be helpful to know. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:03, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You can add free to a template:
 * without:
 * with:
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed, as the OP stated above. I was wondering if there is a way to fix it at the Wikidata item. Some templates that re-use Cite Q, like Academic peer reviewed (see this talk page section), do not appear to accept doi-access, so resolving the problem at the Wikidata end would be cleaner. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed, as the OP stated above. I was wondering if there is a way to fix it at the Wikidata item. Some templates that re-use Cite Q, like Academic peer reviewed (see this talk page section), do not appear to accept doi-access, so resolving the problem at the Wikidata end would be cleaner. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed, as the OP stated above. I was wondering if there is a way to fix it at the Wikidata item. Some templates that re-use Cite Q, like Academic peer reviewed (see this talk page section), do not appear to accept doi-access, so resolving the problem at the Wikidata end would be cleaner. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

No progress on this? This is really annoying. I would have thought or others Wikidatans would have had an idea here. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 21:27, 13 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Maybe has an idea? &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 03:20, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Or perhaps ? &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 03:24, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * See See  for an example of how to use p953="full work available at URL" and P6954="online access status" to indicate open access status.
 * That wikidata entry has specified the PMC link as the "full work available" link, but you can specify the doi link instead. StarryGrandma (talk) 21:41, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Ping @Headbomb as this is an old question. StarryGrandma (talk) 21:46, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Could you edit Q21999077 in the way it should be to have the DOI flagged as free? &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:46, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Good question. Why does the first example above link to the PMC without any such specification? Is it a default? In the example I gave do the properties I listed actually do anything? Will experiment. StarryGrandma (talk) 00:12, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * In and  (when it has journal), pmc with a valid value links title to the PMC.  This choice was imposed upon cs1|2 by WP:MED long ago.  I attempted to undo that choice but that brought out the angry hordes with their torches and pitchforks.
 * To override the automatic linking you can specify a value for url, you can set none or, if doi is available and the template has free, you can set doi.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:33, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I was over-optimistic. The template code currently does not read those properties:
 * There is a lot of "to be done" in the code. I can't see in the code how it generates the url field in the citation. I suspect it is generated from the PMC; if a paper has a PMC it is published open source. So the PMC link will always be marked open source. To mark another identifier as open source will have to be done on the Wikipedia side. StarryGrandma (talk) 01:07, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The question here is how do we get WikiData to have a property that marks not-always-free identifiers as free. free, free, free, etc. Unlike the always free arxiv, pmcid, etc... and never free pmid, mr, etc... &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:56, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * For this astronomy paper, using  displays
 * Cite Q passes everything to the template citation. That template automatically links the doi url to the title because it somehow determines that the paper is open access, but it does not mark the identifier as open access. I think the solution is to mark the identifiers as open access in Wikidata. In that Wikidata entry I've added "online access status" (p6954) and value "open access" (q232932) as a property of the DOI statement. Since the open access indicator we want is a property of the identifier, not the resulting url, Cite Q could query for that property and value and mark the identifier as open access without having to implement any complications of dealing with url fields. StarryGrandma (talk) 19:53, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Umm, nope. In this case,  is using  and feeding url from   which more-or-less is duplicating the value assigned to  .  Here is the expansion, before  gets hold of it:
 * (or were that the named template) doesn't automatically [link anything] to the title except the value assigned to url or, when that is omitted or empty, pmc.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 20:21, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
 * "I think the solution is to mark the identifiers as open access in Wikidata"
 * Yes, this is what we've been asking since December. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:52, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
 * (or were that the named template) doesn't automatically [link anything] to the title except the value assigned to url or, when that is omitted or empty, pmc.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 20:21, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
 * "I think the solution is to mark the identifiers as open access in Wikidata"
 * Yes, this is what we've been asking since December. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:52, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is what we've been asking since December. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:52, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Cite Q mixes JFM and ZBL
See

&#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 01:56, 11 March 2024 (UTC)