Template talk:Cite newspaper The Times

column/page display order
As currently written, when given both 2 and N, the template renders "col N, p. 2". A couple of things about this seem odd to me. First is the order of rendering with the most specific location rendered first (column) followed by the least specific location (page). This to me is backwards. The rendering should proceed left-to-right least-specific-to-most-specific. Second, the column abbreviation should have a trailing dot "col." So, I've tweaked the sandbox. Compare:
 * – live
 * – sandbox

While I have done nothing about this yet, it also seems to me that column should be ignored when pages is specified and also ignored when page is specified.

Without objection, I shall update the live template to render page-before-column.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:44, 9 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The column parameter does not need to be ignored when pages is used.




 * is clear enough in its meaning, is it not? Mjroots (talk)
 * Point taken.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 10:05, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

- could you switch the display order as proposed please? Mjroots (talk) 08:19, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I can do that. But, before I do, in the intervening months, Module:Template wrapper has come into being.  This module is expressly intended for templates like  which sets certain parameters of another (base) template to default values but will allow these meta templates to support all of the base template's parameters without the need for extra pass-through parameters.  For example, in the current live template, author is the only author-name parameter supported.  With Module:Template wrapper,  can use all of the author-name parameters supported by, for example last / first:
 * I have also added  between col. and its value and changed the subscription indicator to use url-access.
 * If these changes are acceptable, I will update the live template.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:28, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * If these changes are acceptable, I will update the live template.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:28, 6 May 2018 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 09:28, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

parameters that ought to be deprecated and removed
I think that some of the parameters used by this template should be deprecated: I have tweaked the ~/sandbox to emit an error message when one (or more) of these parameters appear in a template:
 * page_number and page_numbers – these are too long and the underscore separator is inconsistent with the hyphen separator used in (and all other cs1|2 templates) upon which  is based.  Since  on 28 September 2016, this template has supported page and pages (the documentation, of course, has failed to mention that because, mea culpa, I suck at documentation).
 * articlename – also too long and also inconsistent with the underlying which uses title (which became a supported parameter at the 28 September 2016 edit mentioned above)

Changing that to use title and page gives:

I have just begun to run a simple awb script to remove day_of_week from existing instances to (not a supported parameter since the 28 September 2016 edit mentioned above). It is a relatively simple matter to have the script rename page_number, page_numbers, and articlename at the same time. When that script has completed its task, then the live version of the template can be updated to the sandbox version. The error messages would then become live for a period as an 'educational tool' to retrain editors who use this template. After that training period is over, the deprecated-parameter error messages can go away ( will emit error messages when page_number, page_numbers, and articlename are detected).

Without objections, I shall proceed.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:59, 23 December 2021 (UTC)


 * @Trappist the monk: I fully support this proposal. I came here to propose something similar, and was delighted to see that you are already on the case, with a very coherent plan.  Thank you.
 * Consistency of parameter names helps everyone.  I encountered this exception when a batch of ~20 articles appeared in Category:CS1 errors: unsupported parameter, and my regular cleanup script converted page_number to page-number.  I saved two such pages intending to check what was going on (cos I hadn't seen those params before), but got sidetracked and forgot to check. @ kindly reverted my two edits, and left a note on my talk.
 * It would be a big job to rewrite my AWB setup to accommodate the underscore params, and I am relieved not to have to do so. I will hold off running my script again until the conversion is complete.  Merry Christmas!   Brown HairedGirl  (talk) • (contribs) 17:39, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I support the changes to standardize parameter names among similar templates. Editors shouldn't need to relearn parameter usage each time. Gonnym (talk) 12:11, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Greetings, I hope all is well with you. I literally just happened upon this tool and thought you might find it useful, perhaps even now. Best regards.--John Cline (talk) 03:56, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Live template updated. I've added all of the deprecated parameters to  and hacked an awb script to explicitely replace those deprecated parameters (I never use awb general fixes but there are a lot of editors who do).  There are 6000-ish article that use this template so it will take a while to replace all of those parameters.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:32, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Link please
Is there a way to make a wikilink on the newspaper name? BhamBoi (talk) 23:10, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Generally not needed and perhaps not desirable. But, if you must:
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 23:19, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 23:19, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 23:19, 29 April 2023 (UTC)