Template talk:Decrease

I think the arrow looks like it means "decreasing" as opposed to a loss. It's confusing and I wouldn't use this. Shawnc 20:04, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Interwikis
Please, add sl:Predloga:Upad. --12:27, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * editprotected done. CMummert · talk 18:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Please add is:Snið:Lækkun. --Stefán Örvarr Sigmundsson 22:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Replace unicode symbol by an icon with alt text
Unicode symbols are not accessible, as most of them are read by screen readers as a question mark (unrecognized). Even when they are, the textual alternative is quite generic, and does not always convey the meaning intended. For example, in this case it would be read as "down arrow" instead of "decrease".

The MoS guideline at Manual of Style (accessibility) says such symbols should be replaced by an icon with alt text. This guideline was established after the discussion at WT:ACCESS#Non standard ASCII, and consensus was reached to replace such symbols by an icon with alt text.

This change does not have any effect on the layout, or the rendering of the symbol, thus is believed to be consensual. I request to replace: ▼ ▼

by: File:Decrease2.svg is in public domain because it is ineligible for copyright (simple geometry), thus the image doesn't require attribution and it is acceptable to remove the link.

Thanks. Dodoïste (talk) 13:39, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:10, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! :-) Dodoïste (talk) 19:15, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

confusing
I agree with Shawnc's comment (from 5 years ago). Its purpose in infoboxes isn't clear, is it a loss, or is it a decrease from previous years? It seems to be used instead of a negative sign, which is how a negative profit would normally be displayed. (e.g. on Lockheed Martin)

At the very least, is it possible to have a mouseover tip to say it represents a loss, rather than a decrease from previous years? 84.9.58.29 (talk) 23:03, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I too find it a confusing sign. So, the stock value is decreased - in relation to what? Its stock value from yesterday? Last month? Is this a realtime sign? In addition to the alt= text I'd like to have a small title= tag or even an url= to some stock market site where one can see why the symbols shows decrease. The same goes for Template:Increase of course. -- 194.246.123.103 (talk) 07:57, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * If it is confusijg or unclear, we have to provide additional textual information in context. But using title or alt is not a solution, it's an open door to more problems. Maybe an url would help. Dodoïste (talk) 15:55, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

An equilateral triangle points in three different directions: why should I consider this to be downward rather than right/left and up a bit? Kevin McE (talk) 20:38, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Its top surface is horizontal, the lower point of both diagonal sides is half-way along that horizontal but below it. Most people would understand that it points downwards unless it renders differently in IE from the way it renders in Safari?  To me it's abundantly clear it points downwards.  The Rambling Man (talk) 20:51, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
 * For clarity, please also see Template:Increase and Template:Steady. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:20, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
 * We could use a better icon, such as File:RedDownArrow.svg. It would clearly indicate the decrease. I'm sure we can find a similar one for the increase template. Cheers, Dodoïste (talk) 15:55, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Optional parameter
At present the template creates a fixed alt text of "decrease". I was recently asked if I could make that text a changeable parameter and also provide hover-text. I've tested an implementation at User:RexxS/Decrease using the following code: 

There are similar trials at User:RexxS/Steady and User:RexxS/Increase for the associated templates.

Results are as follows: The first three demonstrate the default alt text and title of "decrease", "increase" and "steady", so these versions produce the same results as the present templates if you don't add a parameter. The last three have alt text and title set to the parameter which is supplied. This version also deals with  (i.e. explicit empty alt) by falling back to the default.

Is there any downside to updating the current templates to take the optional parameter and give title text? --RexxS (talk) 19:01, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I like it but I seem to recall User:Dodoïste objected to that approach? Could be wrong though... The Rambling Man (talk) 19:07, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, he suggested above that these sort of solutions may lead to problems, so I thought it best to put forward a particular solution to see if I've managed to avoid the problems. If so, then the addition of a title to give hover-text for sighted visitors may find more use in other symbol templates, making a key less needed in some tables. --RexxS (talk) 20:38, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Hm, I can't tell if RexxS proposal is accessible. SPANs are usually not meant to carry information, thus using a title on a SPAN might fail criterias. But screen readers might quite possibly read titles on SPANs. I'm not sure.
 * I would rather suggest something that looks closer to standard in most common uses. Like [[file:Nuvola action edit add-2.svg|15px|alt=increase|link=]] 20.5% . Since there is an alt text on the image, color is not the only mean to provide information. Thus it's accessible. The green text color and the green plus are more easily understandable for average user. I suggest using red and a minus icon for the decrease. I suggest deleting the "unchanged" template. Dodoïste (talk) 23:57, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It's only as accessible as the w3c specification allows:
 * "The &lt;span> element doesn't mean anything on its own, but can be useful when used together with the global attributes" - http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Elements/span
 * "title - Advisory information associated with the element." - http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Attributes/_Global
 * Here's an example from WCAG of using a span element to convey information (the meaning of an abbreviation):
 * PDF8: Providing definitions for abbreviations via an E entry for a structure element: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/PDF8.html
 * Standard symbols for London Stock Exchange prices are green "up" and red "down" arrows: http://www.londonstockexchange.com/home/homepage.htm
 * Standard symbols for BBC music charts are blue "up" and red "down" arrows with a grey dash for "no change": http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/chart/singles
 * Standard symbols for soccer Premier League table are blue "up" and grey "down" arrows with a grey dash for "no change": http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/league-table.html
 * I'm not seeing +/- as symbols - just the up and down arrows and the dash. Is this a country-specific difference? --RexxS (talk) 03:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay for the accessibility part.
 * As for the design: what about all the feedback that stated these arrows are cryptic and hard to understand? Users are not going to guess that some information is going to show when hovering these arrows. We should go for a radical solution. The colored text and the +/- is the only design that is understood at a first glance.
 * I did not knew that arrows were often used too. But it's not because it's used on several websites that it can be easily understood. By the way, on http://www.londonstockexchange.com I see the green/red text and +/- symbols. Dodoïste (talk) 09:14, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Unnamed parameter for delta
I created a sandboxed verion of the template with support for delta numbers as tooltips (to be specified in first unnamed parameter). I already implemented this in steady, and similar request is filed for increase (see Unnamed parameter for delta). — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 12:59, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
 * ✅. Please update the documentation &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:11, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Can table cells using / be made sortable?
Hello!

Is there a clever way to add hidden characters to the HTML code so that table cells using these templates sort correctly?

For example, clicking the sorting icons in the table on the right seems to order the values randomly.

Thanks, cm&#610;&#671;ee&#2927;&#8202;&#865;&#176;&#160;&#814;&#1583;&#8202;&#865;&#176;&#8201;&#2669; 20:43, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
 * See Help:Sorting. You may also need to set data-sort-type="number" in the column header. Verbcatcher (talk) 16:23, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

Rank/mov't indicator arrows
(Copied from Template_talk:IncreaseNegative) FYI - As per Help Desk discussion.  thewolfchild  10:51, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Discussion at Template talk:Increase § Size parameter
You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Increase § Size parameter. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 04:55, 16 August 2020 (UTC)