Template talk:Did you know/Paul Speratus, First Lutheran hymnal, Es ist das Heil uns kommen her

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 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page.  No further edits should be made to this page.

Paul Speratus, First Lutheran hymnal, Es ist das Heil uns kommen her
The result was: promoted by Crisco 1492 (talk) }}
 * ... that the hymn "Es ist das Heil uns kommen her," written by Paul Speratus (pictured) when he was in prison, is one of just eight songs in the First Lutheran hymnal?
 * Reviewed: Arreton Manor
 * Comment: Paul Speratus and First Lutheran hymnal are new; "Es ist das Heil uns kommen her" is new on a redirect. In addition to reviewing Arreton Manor I recently reviewed Icelandic Phallological Museum and (rejected) "I thought he was kind of a dick yesterday"‎

Created by Sharktopus (talk), Gerda Arendt (talk). Self nom at 15:33, 30 July 2011 (UTC) Please add a comment and signature (or just a signature if endorsing) after each aspect you have reviewed:

Hook
 * Length, format, content rules: ALT3 Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Source: Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Interest: Interest in the wrong place of the hook, perhaps: not that it's one of eight songs in that hymnus, but that the guy wrote it while in prison. Tony  (talk)  16:18, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The hook is not only about the author, but also on the hymnal called Achtliederbuch. Avoided German name, but at least it should be made known that it contained eight songs, therefore ALT2 proposed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:56, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Image suitability, if applicable: None. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ALT hooks, if proposed: "... that the hymn "Es ist das Heil uns kommen her in the First Lutheran hymnal was written by Paul Speratus (pictured) when he was in prison? Tony   (talk)  16:18, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ALT2: ... that the hymn Es ist das Heil uns kommen her, one of eight songs in the First Lutheran hymnal, was written by Paul Speratus (pictured) while he was in prison? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:42, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks to Tony, Gerda, and Marrante for excellent hook suggestions. I like ALT2. Would it be ok to add the word "just" or "only", as in "one of only eight songs"? I still do think it is interesting to have a hymn book with only 8 songs in it.  Sharktopus talk
 * Fine with me. I wonder if we could go a step further and support my assumption that it was the first hymnal ever? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:26, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Gerda, I don't think it was the first ever, depending of course on how one defines hymnal. Luther was inspired in part by a Moravian hymnal and of course books of Catholic sacred music had been around for a long time before Jan Hus.  Sharktopus talk 21:25, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The present article on hymnal doesn't help. I think to be called a hymnal it should be a common book for a broader range of congregations, and the songs be intended for the congregation to be sung in church. I don't know if the books of Moravian Brothers were published in a wider range, nor if any of the Catholic sacred music was sung by the congregation, as opposed to a schola (music) (de:Choralschola) or choir. This is not meant to change the hook, just to gain knowledge. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:31, 1 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Update by Sharktopus -- I am removing the hymnal from this nomination and nominating it separately, because it deserves its own separate hook and is just over-complicating this one. Feel free to review just one of the two remaining articles, if you don't have time to review both of them.  Sharktopus talk 23:40, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Proposed two-article hook ALT3: ... that Paul Speratus (pictured) was in prison, sentenced to death by fire, when he wrote the hymn "Es ist das Heil uns kommen her?
 * Support, love the "sentenced" - should we move the subpage for clarity? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:59, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Article 1: Paul Speratus
 * Length: Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Vintage: Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sourcing (V, RS, BLP): Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Neutrality: Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Plagiarism/close paraphrasing: Nothing. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Copyvio: Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Obvious faults in prose, structure, formatting:

Comments/discussion:

Article 2: Es ist das Heil uns kommen her
 * Length: Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Vintage: Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sourcing (V, RS, BLP): Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Neutrality: Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Plagiarism/close paraphrasing: "chorus a cappella op 29 a four part chorale followed by an elaborate fugal variation on the chorale melody". Is there another way to say this? Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I fail to see the problem because it is clearly marked as a quote. Unfortunately the source doesn't say who said so. I don't know the piece, or I would know how to rephrase. We could drop that half sentence if it is problematic, but I thought it added something to the character of the Brahms piece. I can also try to find something more on it elsewhere, but then: the article is on the chorale, not Brahms' setting. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:11, 8 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Copyvio: Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Obvious faults in prose, structure, formatting:

Comments/discussion:
 * Comment: Tweaked that ALT2 hook to read "while in prison" instead of "when". Marrante (talk) 19:07, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Symbol question.svg Minor paraphrasing issue. Once that's fixed it should be good to go. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Symbol confirmed.svg Oh, sorry. Duplication check doesn't show the quotation marks. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)