Template talk:FGM

Somalia
Hi, the recent change for Somalia to 25–99 percent would need a source. The current range (90–98 percent) is taken from the US State Dept, 2001:

"Virtually all Somali women are subjected to one of these procedures. A recent estimate by the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) places the percentage of the women in Somalia who have undergone this procedure at 90 percent. Earlier estimates had placed the percentage at 96-98 percent. A 1983 national survey by the Ministry of Health found a prevalence of 96 percent. In October 1999, CARE International carried out a safe motherhood survey in Somaliland (northwest Somalia) to determine, among other things, the prevalence of FGM/FGC. It found the practice to be universal in this area of Somalia among the women sampled, with 91 percent undergoing Type III and nine percent Type I. These suggest that it is well established in all areas of the country and in most, if not all, the ethnic groups."

SlimVirgin (talk) 20:30, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi, thanks, I see you added this source. But it talks only about one region: "... new data released by the U.N. children's agency on Tuesday showed that female genital mutilation among children in northern Somalia is on the decline. The survey released by UNICEF and the governments of Somaliland and Puntland found that 25% of girls from the ages of 1 to 14 years old have undergone the practice, compared with 99% of women in those regions."


 * This is just a table about the estimate of percentages of women affected by the practice in countries as a whole. The practice does vary from region to region within countries (not only Somalia), but the table doesn't go into that detail. So when it says "90–98 percent" it means that estimates vary between those figures. It doesn't mean that in some parts of the country it's 90 percent and in others 98 percent. So changing the figures to 25–99 percent would be misleading, and would mean we are using one system for Somalia and another for all the other entries. SlimVirgin (talk) 17:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * There are no recent estimates of the practice's prevelance in Somalia as a whole because no national survey was conducted owing to the Islamist insurgency in parts of the south. The survey was thus conducted in the stable northern regions by the local administrations there in conjunction with UNICEF. Given this, what would be misleading would be to indicate that 90+ percent of females in the country as a whole have undergone the procedure, when the prevelance rate is actually only 25% among youths in a large part of the territory. Middayexpress (talk) 17:48, 26 April 2013 (UTC)


 * All the sources I've read say that almost all women in Somalia have experienced FGM. If that has started to change in one part of the country, that's great, but it's a separate issue. The question is: what percentage of women living in that country now have experienced FGM, not what percentage of girls in one part of it have recently undergone it. SlimVirgin (talk) 18:40, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The issue is the prevelance rate. It's only 25% among 1 to 14 year olds in a large part of the country. This means that for the past 14 years (not just 2013), the rate has steadily declined among children. In the south, one can only guess what the current prevelance rate is. But since Al-Shabaab bans the practice in areas under its control, it's probably not that high there either. In any case, all possibilities are covered by the 25%-99% range. Middayexpress (talk) 18:56, 26 April 2013 (UTC)


 * The issue in this table isn't the prevalence rate. It is: in any given country, what percentage of the women currently alive in that country have undergone FGM? No source says that that percentage could be as low as 25 percent in Somalia. All sources say it is 90 percent plus in that country. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:09, 26 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Here the WHO says the percentage in Somalia was 97.9 in 2006 for women 15–49 years old. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:57, 26 April 2013 (UTC)


 * That's based on old data/extrapolations, like the Momoh and UDS links in this template. The WTO prevalence map (which is how it describes the figures) in that link above is sourced to UNICEF. And per UNICEF's own latest 2013 survey conducted in conjunction with the autonomous northern Somali administrations, the prevalence rate is only 25% among 1 to 14 year olds. That's why the figures are described as "new data", the article is titled "female genital mutilation down", and it is explained that attitudes are changing due to intensified collaborative efforts with community and religious leaders. Middayexpress (talk) 22:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)


 * But the fact that numbers are recently down in one area doesn't mean that the other women have ceased to exist. The questions are: (a) How many women currently living in Somalia have had FGM? (b) How many women are there overall? What percentage of (b) is (a)?


 * All the sources say that almost all women in Somalia have experienced it. It would be wildly misleading to suggest that the figure might be as low as 25 percent overall among all ages just because 25 percent of 1–14 year olds in one area have had in done. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:40, 26 April 2013 (UTC)


 * That Momoh link itself concedes that "due to lack of systematic data collection, precise numbers of women and girls who have undergone FGM is unknown". At any rate, the majority of women in Somalia of a certain age have undergone the procedure, but not the youth. Per the UNICEF survey's new data, only a minority of young Somali females have. The article states as much: "The survey released by UNICEF and the governments of Somaliland and Puntland found that 25% of girls from the ages of 1 to 14 years old have undergone the practice, compared with 99% of women in those regions" . This means that the practice has been steadily declining i.e. progressively fewer females are undergoing the procedure due to the collaborative awareness campaign between the local administrations and UNICEF. Given this, it would be rather misleading to insist that the rate is still 90+ for the youth when it's actually only around 25% and steadily declining.
 * Sheema Sen Gupta of UNICEF also noted the same thing I pointed out earlier; namely, that the practice is likely to be low in southern Somalia as well because of both government and Islamist opposition to it: "The survey did not include southern Somalia, where the Mogadishu-based government has been battling al Shabaab, an Islamic militant group linked to al-Qaeda, but Sen Gupta is optimistic that progress can be made in reducing FGM there as well. “The new constitution of Somalia bans FGM so that’s a good place to start at the policy level,” she said, adding that al Shabaab opposes FGM as “non-Islamic”" (c.f. ). This is why the International Federation of Gynecologists and Obstetricians also notes that: "Only one quarter of northern Somali girls under the age of 15 have suffered female genital mutilation (FGM), new data from Unicef shows - demonstrating a significant reduction in the country's FGM occurrence rates, which was previously seen practised almost universally" (c.f. ). That's the trend. Middayexpress (talk) 15:54, 27 April 2013 (UTC)


 * And that's brilliant. It's exactly the kind of information that should be in the article. But this table isn't about trends; rather it's an estimate of the overall percentage of women of all ages already affected. If these trends continue, then in future decades this table will look very different. But for now, fewer young girls having it done in one part (or even all parts) of the country does not change the overall percentage for all ages in all areas who have already had it done.


 * Egypt banned it in 2007. So if everyone there were to obey the law (sadly not the case), the new trend there would be 0 percent. But that wouldn't change the overall percentage of women already affected, which is extremely high. So, no matter the recent trend, we wouldn't write that the percentage of women who have experienced FGM in Egypt is estimated to be between 0–90 percent (which would be another way of saying that we had no idea whether it was no one or nearly everyone). SlimVirgin (talk) 17:06, 27 April 2013 (UTC)