Template talk:Genesis/Archive1

Who's on the top row?
I believe the usual format for band templates is to have all current members at the top, and everyone else in the second row (or more if needed). If that's the case, wouldn't it be proper to only have Collins/Banks/Rutherford in the top row of this template? --cholmes75 (chit chat) 14:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps, but are you sure that all three of them consider themselves to be "members of Genesis" today? Yes, they are doing a tour, but the way they discussed it seemed to be that this was a great idea after the five-piece reunion tour fell through.  They didn't talk like "members of a band". &mdash; Lawrence King ( talk ) 15:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have to agree that only Collins, Banks and Rutherford should be listed at the top. They are the current incarnation of the band, no matter what language they use. Rhindle The Red 21:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Bill Bruford
Anyone else think Mr. Bruford should be listed on the template as well? He did tour with them in '76, and appears on Seconds Out. Robotman1974 07:24, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Many Too Many EP
Why isn't "Many Too Many" listed as an EP? It was a 7-inch three-song release, just like 3 X 3. &mdash; Lawrence King ( talk ) 04:35, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Are you sure it's not a maxi single?. Anyway... there are several rare EP's in the likes of that. The best solution would to just list a Rare and sum all of 'em in one article. Here's a list that include the rare EP's. http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/genesis  Mini ahlin (talk) 05:41, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


 * About Many Too Many, there is a slight chance that that 7" i in 45 rpm and I know that 3 X 3 is in 33 rpm. That's usually a sign whether or not a 7" is a single or EP. However there's still exceptions where singles has been in 33 rpm and still haven't been EPs. The definitions is vague but I haven't seen Many Too Many as ever being listed as EP before even though it has 3 songs. Mini ahlin (talk) 05:47, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Videography
Shouldn't this template include a list of their non-live videography, given that said videos have their own articles? Kouban (talk) 16:35, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Gabriel and Hackett
I've seperated Gabriel and Hackett, the more notable former members, from the other former members, a la [| NIN Template]--70.29.51.70 (talk) 01:55, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The most important former members were Anthony Phillips (who probably composed more music than any other member on the first two albums), Hackett, and Gabriel. On the other hand, Ray Wilson was a lead singer, so that could be seen as making him notable.  However, I fear that trying to sort the former members by "notability" will end up being a subjective exercise that will lead to disagreement over the long haul.  John Silver is the only member that the band wrote a "goodbye" song to when he left the band, but does that make him notable?  And so on.


 * Right now, the list is not in any logical order. We could list them alphabetically, but that seems silly.


 * I propose that we list them chronologically, like we do with the touring musicians. Any objections?


 * If we did that, we could either list them chronologically by the date they joined the band:
 * Peter Gabriel·Anthony Phillips·Chris Stewart·John Silver·John Mayhew·Mick Barnard·Steve Hackett·Ray Wilson
 * or list them chronologically by the date they left the band:
 * Chris Stewart·John Silver·Anthony Phillips·John Mayhew·Mick Barnard·Peter Gabriel·Steve Hackett·Ray Wilson


 * Either way, I think including Mick Barnard is probably the right choice, because he wasn't a "touring" musician but an actual band member, albeit for a brief time. However, I don't want to add Barnard to this list if it's remains alphabetical, because that would put him first!


 * Any comments or suggestions? &mdash; Lawrence King ( talk ) 01:25, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Since no one chimed in, I have sorted the names chronologically, using the first of the two options (in the order they joined the band). &mdash; Lawrence King ( talk ) 00:32, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Listing Anthony Drennan twice
Anthony Drennan was never formally a member of Genesis. There is currently a dispute between myself and User:212.159.124.39 about where he should be listed on this template.


 * Drennan played on the Calling All Stations studio album, which would seem to justify listing him in the "Additional Studio Personnel" section of this template. This section includes other studio album contributors such as Zidkyahu and D'Virgilio.
 * Drennan also played live on the CAS tour, which would seem to justify listing him in the "Touring Musicians" section of this template. This section includes other touring musicians such as Bruford, Thompson, Stuermer, and Zidkyahu.

So the question is, do we list him under "Additional Studio Personnnel", "Touring Musicians," or both?

I prefer both, because he really was both, and Zidkyahu is similarly listed in both categories already. Based on his edits, it appears that 212.159.124.39 prefers that Drennan be listed under "Touring musicians" only. Does anyone else want to weigh in? Otherwise the vote will be one-to-one. &mdash; Lawrence King ( talk ) 00:41, 29 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Nevermind, my bad. Apparently Drennan did not play on the studio album, and therefore 212.159.124.39's edits were right and I was wrong to oppose them.  Sorry! &mdash; Lawrence King ( talk ) 00:48, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Mick Barnard's status
I reverted an edit that moved Mick Barnard from a band member to "touring musician". Here's why that doesn't fit the Wikipedia standards:

(1) It is true that Mick Barnard does not play on any Genesis studio albums. But this does not disqualify him. Band articles on Wikipedia routinely list members who did not play on studio albums -- for example, Pete Best and Stuart Sutcliffe have always been listed as past members on the The Beatles article.

(2) The very concept of a "touring musicians" subcategory was invented for Genesis, and Genesis alone, because Genesis in 1976 decided to have adjunct band members who would tour with them and have no other role in the band. Bruford, Thompson, and Stuermer have never appeared on studio albums, have never written any songs with the band (or even been present in the studio while the band was writing songs), etc. This category was invented in 1976 and therefore it can't apply to pre-1976 Genesis.

(3) Mick Barnard was only in the band for two and a half months. But during that time, he was a member of the band in every sense. He wrote music with them (by Banks' own statement, MB wrote a small bit of "The Musical Box") and did everything else the band members did during that time.

So he is indeed a former member of Genesis, even if he's not a particularly memorable one. &mdash; Lawrence King ( talk ) 00:51, 19 October 2011 (UTC)