Template talk:Homicide/Archive 1

Comments
This template is in the Deicide article, shouldn't it therefore be put in the bottom underneath the "other" heading? I'll go ahead and put it in there now (assuming its not there already and iv just been stupid) but feel free to revert if it's not appropriate. SGGH 18:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC) I am afraid that is my fault. I removed Deicide because it specifically refers to the killing of a god, and the homicide template should be about the killing of human beings, which other than Elvis, are not gods. I neglected to check Deicide for a homicide template. I am correcting my error.Mneumisi 19:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Homicide or Not?
Anyone interested in whether something is a homicide and therefore should be on this template, should also check talk:homicide. Mneumisi 13:05, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Felony murder
Felony murder is now a disambiguation page. The template should pick one of the two different meanings to link to. -- Kendrick7talk 01:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

British/American spelling of 'honour'
This should reflect the article heading, which should be 'honour', for reasons stated on that article's discussion page.Tescoid (talk) 13:23, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

how to fix it?
The subjects under "Murder" look like written in single spaces. "Manslaugher", "Non-criminal homicide" and "Other types of homicide" look much better: double spaced. I don't know how to fix that. —Cesar Tort 12:31, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I already fixed it (1.5em). It looks good in my PC. Does it look good in yours too? —Cesar Tort 05:28, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

"Viricide"
The link "Viricide", when clicking from the template, redirects to Gendercide (curiously, I don't see any hatnote "Redirected from Viricide"). If on the other hand it's clicked from other place, it's the article Viricide, killing viruses. What is wrong with this redirect from template? Besides, killing viruses hardly is "homicide". The link must be removed from template. —Cesar Tort 18:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh! I see now why it redirected there! I saw in the code a sort of vandalism —:
 * Viricide
 * —and I removed the whole thing. Cesar Tort 04:00, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * You are an idiot. That is standard wikicode. 75.118.170.35 (talk) 21:09, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Deicide
How can Deicide be in this template? It's impossible to kill a god. Should we remove it from the subheading "Homicide"? —Cesar Tort 04:06, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It is a term used in Christianity to describe the killing of Jesus Christ. Non-Christians don't believe God was killed, true, but it is still an understanding held by many people. Compare it to regicide, when the people who do the killing don't believe the victim is really a legitimate king. -BaronGrackle (talk) 05:02, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I see. It still sounds a little odd to me... Cesar Tort 06:14, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, if we ever decide to cut down the template to the most essential examples of homicide (I see we have avunculicide there now!), then deicide can probably be one of the links to go. As of now, anything with the word "cide" in it that relates to human-killing seems fair game. -BaronGrackle (talk) 16:37, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I would leave the curious avunculicide and remove deicide. But I rather not take this action unilaterally without some support in this talk page (or voting if there are several editors watching it). —Cesar Tort 17:55, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

"It is a term used in Christianity to describe the killing of Jesus Christ. Non-Christians don't believe God was killed, true, but it is still an understanding held by many people." Then why not add it to the disputed section? 75.118.170.35 (talk) 18:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, we had it that way, but the previous "disputed" section was a bit unclear. With abortion and feticide, the dispute was whether a person was being killed. With deicide, there is no dispute over whether a person is being killed; the dispute is whether the person is God or a god. If I were to declare myself king, and then someone kills me, my followers would call it regicide. People would dispute the name regicide, but they wouldn't dispute that I was killed. It doesn't seem to matter anyway, since a new format was implemented without deicide. I think that's fair; it's a fairly isolated event. -BaronGrackle (talk) 15:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * "With abortion and feticide, the dispute was whether a person was being killed." "Homicide" is defined as the killing of another human, not another person. 75.118.170.35 (talk) 21:14, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

If we don't get rid of deicide, we should add tedicide, dollicide, etc for the killing of all imaginary beings. I will be deleting in two weeks unless there is a logical argument why not.RayTayMiht (talk) 21:37, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

This is why we should keep it. Jesus was a man, the Son of God, and also God (all at the same time). It has been scientifically proven that the Star of Bethlehem, signifying Jesus' birth, was a conjunction of planets lining up to look like one star. I think we can conclude from this that Jesus existed and we should keep Deicide on the list

Hey, and if you are also into mythology (I'm not really), various gods were killed by other gods. Some believe or have believed they existed. While I don't call this Deicide, this would be deicide (as I do not believe mythological gods to be deities).98.228.223.184 (talk) 02:18, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

"list of -cides"
Do we need this? It adds ugly clutter to the template, and is of very limited usefulness to the reader. dab (𒁳) 14:49, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Criteria for inclusion in the template?
Which types of murder get included, and which not? Incidentally, quite a few of the articles in the murder section need work. Шизомби (talk) 05:30, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Depraved-heart murder
I think depraved-heart murder (also known as depraved-indifference murder, malignant heart murder, and a few others) should be included. It is a legally recognized category of unintentional murder in the United States. Verkhovensky (talk) 03:34, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Familial homocide
I wonder whether familial homicide should be added to the template, as it is recognized category of murder within the United Kingdom.  Pixie2000  (talk) 08:05, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Assassination
There's quite a tempest going on at Talk:Assassination about whether "Targeted Killing" can be assassination because this template defines assassination as murder which is a crime, and targeted killing is more of an act of war, permissible under international law (although hotly debated). Does anybody here have ideas on what should be done? Thundermaker (talk) 21:34, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Why isn't war on this list?
Considering that guns are used frequently in wars (I think we know guns kill), 2000+ Americans have died as as the result of violence due to killing, can we not logically avoid the truth that killing an enemy in war is still killing a human being? We could put this either under noncriminal homicide or other.

I apologize if I have ruffled feathers, but the media censors the truth of war. Here are some quotes.

"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong no matter who does it or says it." - Malcolm X. He may not have been talking about war but the message is the same.

“ It is a tribute to the humanity of ordinary people that horrible acts must be camouflaged in a thicket of deceptive words like “security,” “peace,” “freedom,” “democracy,” the “national interest” in order to justify them." - Howard Zinn

I believe that fear of attack or recognition of the truth, patriotism, censoring, and often lies have persuaded us to use euphemisms when referring to war. I would appreciate it greatly if acts of war was put on the template somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.228.223.184 (talk) 01:15, 14 October 2012 (UTC)


 * It has been added

Re: abortion
Several people have been adding abortion to the list, and it's kind of an inflammatory issue, which hasn't been discussed on the talk page yet. What do people think? Should it be on the template? I'm inclined to say "Definitely not" for scientific reasons, but that's colored by some of my pro-choice bias, I'm sure. :/ It's touchy. Anyway, it would be good if we could get a bit of consensus, to stop edit wars. The last addition of Abortion, by Piemanmoo, I reverted. I figure it's better to have abortion omitted from the list (whether or not it should be on there) than to have it on there if it's wrongly placed.  Switcher cat  talkcont 02:29, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think abortion qualifies as homicide, but I am sympathetic to the argument that it does. If it is part of it, however, it must be under legal homicides, because it is legal (in the US at least and most other countries).Mneumisi 14:23, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think there might be some compromise to this issue. It might be better to add an extra section titled "Of debate" and add Abortion there. GuardianH (talk) 16:12, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @GuardianH, you're inserting that into a fifteen-year-old discussion, probably better to add it below in the current discussion. Valereee (talk) 17:30, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Technically, it is homicide. The debate is really whether it is JUSTIFIABLE homicide. 75.118.170.35 (talk) 18:38, 30 August 2008 (UTC) :I was just about to post this! I agree 100%. 75.118.170.35 (talk) 21:06, 10 January 2009 (UTC) That explains it. I was the one to post it in the first place! D'oh!
 * A local church that does anti-abortion work is asking their followers to add it to the list. I will continue to revert if I see it, as that seems to be the consensus. Ckessler (talk) 18:29, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

It seems like you can't remove abortion from the template anymore. I don't know if this is purposeful (I'm new around here). I would just like to add that if you have feticide listed as unlawful then it might make more sense to have it under the legal section. I realize that abortion means more than just fetuses, but Mneumisi was completely right that it should be there. Sir Charms a Lot (talk) 05:45, 20 August 2017 (UTC) 22:45, 19 August 2017 (UTC-7)

Human sacrifice
I notice that "human sacrifice" is included in noth "non-criminal homicide" and "murder", yet "child sacrifice" is included only under "murder". As unpleasant as child/human sacrifice may be, it was usually legal in the cultures where it was practised, so "non-criminal homicide" seems more apt. In any case, child sacrifice is a subset of human sacrifice and should be listed in the same places. Simon Burchell (talk) 10:15, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Although it may have been legal in the cultures where it was practiced, it isn't legal anymore. But I do agree that they should be listed in the same place. Bwrs (talk) 07:22, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Almost none of these crimes(listed ones) are legal. OccultZone (talk) 19:59, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * A crime, by definition, is illegal... Simon Burchell (talk) 20:04, 28 January 2014 (UTC)