Template talk:House of Aviz

Can someone reduce this template into collapsible form? Right now it is so large that it compromises attempts to include other pictures in the associated articles. Walrasiad (talk) 19:07, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Working on it now :) Cristiano Tomás (talk) 07:30, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Cool! I think you can actually make this one a sidebar template (if collapsible, it's compact enough). Something along the lines of what they have at pt.wiki:   []. It is quite compact and doable (esp. keeping the crest just a simple cross of Aviz)

However, they put both Aviz & Aviz-Beja together, and I don't know if we should do the same here. What do you think? My instinct is to keep the separate, if only because the older Dukes of Viseu-Beja are an important family that cannot be easily inserted into a general Aviz template (I tried to do it in my experiments, but not very successfully). They were very important, and play prominent roles in Portuguese history and the politics of the house of Aviz well before Manuel became king, so they should be included somewhere as part of the family.

I am not so sure spouses are important. But illegitimate children are, since they played important roles. So putting some sort of ordering, I think something along the following lines should be there:

1st John I of Portugal Illegitimate
 * Edward of Portugal
 * Peter of Coimbra
 * Peter, Constable of Portugal
 * Isabella of Coimbra
 * Henry the Navigator
 * Isabella, Duchess of Burgundy<
 * John of Reguengos
 * Ferdinand the Saint Prince


 * Afonso of Barcelos, Duke of Braganza


 * Afonso of Ourém
 * Ferdinand of Arraiolos, 2nd D of B
 * Beatrice, Countess of Arundel

2nd Edward of Portugal Illegitimate
 * Afonso V of Portugal
 * Ferdinand of Viseu
 * John of Viseu (2nd D of V)
 * Diogo of Viseu (3rd D of V)
 * Eleanor of Viseu
 * Isabella of Viseu
 * Manuel I of Portugal
 * Eleanor, Holy Roman Empress
 * Catherine
 * Joan, Queen of Castile
 * João Manuel, Bishop of Guarda

3rd Afonso V of Portugal Illegitimate
 * John the Prince
 * St. Joan, Princess of Portugal
 * John II of Portugal
 * Álvaro Soares da Cunha

Fourth John II of Portugal Illegitimate
 * Afonso, Prince of Portugal
 * Jorge de Lencastre, Duke of Coimbra
 * Brites Anes de Santarém

Or something like that. Evidently, not all illegitimate children are important, and I suppose a couple of less important ones could be omitted (but definitely keep Afonso de Barcelos & Jorge de Lencastre). As you notice, I'm keeping wives out (problematic with illegitimates listed & stuff, and just gets bulky). Focus on the blood only.

You can see the main problem right there in the Braganza & Viseu lines, which extend on their own and get too tight if the full lines are in here. So that's why I think perhaps a separate House of Aviz-Beja is necessary (to capture the Dukes of Viseu). And also a separate template for the Dukes of Braganza. In other words, leave Afonso of Braganza here and Ferdinand of Viseu here, but move their kids & descendents into their own templates. The children of Peter of Coimbra should be kept here (those lines don't extend; they can be intended with the code "& nbsp;& nbsp;& nbsp;"

(ON the other hand, looking it over, perhaps a separate Aviz-Beja tempalte is not necessary. I think if you indent the children of Ferdinand of Viseu, then we can proceed directly to Manuel I  after John II, and keep it all in one clean template, like they have it at pt.wiki.)

BTW, I currently have place an RM for Ferdinand of Viseu to retitle him as 2nd Duke, John and 3rd Duke and Diogo as 4th Duke, as per the standard Wiki norms of listing nobles. I should probably to the same for the pre-royal dukes of Braganza, have Afonso, 1st Duke, Ferdinand, 2nd Duke, Ferdinand, 3rd Duke, etc. (without ordinals; dukes shouldn't have ordinals, as they aren't referred to that way in the chronicles).

Let me know what you think. Walrasiad (talk) 09:34, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Me being the non-sensible me, I worked on the template before I noticed the talk page here. I am sorry. As it is late while I am writing this, I am going to retire for the day, but I will change the template to the way you have described it tomorrow. In the mean time, I would appreciate any feedback on the template I just did. Let me know what you wish, and I will enjoy putting the template into action. Regards, Cristiano Tomás (talk) 09:42, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I am tired too. We should take it up tomorrow.   I like your template, but I think it should be made a side-bar, rather than at the bottom of the article.  It's compact enough to be not very intrusive and helps people open it up and read along, as names come up during the article. Walrasiad (talk) 09:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Merge
Template:House of Aviz-Beja should be merged to this template.--The Emperor&#39;s New Spy (talk) 06:40, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

RfC notification
A request for comments which may impact this template has been started at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biographies. You are welcome to comment there. Fram (talk) 14:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)