Template talk:Infobox Switzerland municipality/Archive 2

Why no maps?
Since user Tschubby has uploaded almost every community map of Switzerland he made to Wiki Commons  and many articles already include the image code I don't see a reason why the maps should remain turned off. Makes no sense to me. --Cooper.ch 19:14, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * We just need to decide on which format to use and implement it consistently. Initial inclusion just used the image path, later additions the entire image name. Personally, I would use the first format, but I wouldn't use the maps with labels in German for places where it's not the local language. -- User:Docu
 * I agree with Docu; even though a map in German is better than no map at all, having a map that says "Frankreich" instead of "France" is likely to confuse English speakers rather than help them. It is a pity, because the maps are excellent otherwise. It would be nice if these maps were available in SVG format, and that we could just have a list of translations for all places, and a simple search/replace in the XML source could be used to translate them (although names of different lengths could ruin the layout). Schutz 21:55, 13 August 2006 (UTC).

How to rename
Supposedly, Tobias Conradi is trying to standardize names (by renaming to Template:Infobox Town CH). As it's only for municipalities, we might as well change its name to "Template:Infobox Municipality CH". There don't appear to be any others named that way though (see Special:Allpages/Infobox). Until naming is fixed, I'm moving it back to the old title (Template:Infobox Swiss town). -- User:Docu

How to color
The current yellow might not be optimal for cases where "subject_name" still includes the coat of arms. (sample). Personally, I'd favor the previous "color", but obviously, this is something that may be debated at length. -- User:Docu
 * Recent changes meant that the coat of arms can now be successfully displayed along with a title (sample1), or just the title if no arms exist (sample2). I agree that it looked unattractive with the coat of arms buried within a coloured box, but a much better solution would be to edit all municipality boxes that display a coat of arms to make use of the imagepath_coa field. And then we can give the title some colour, which looked a lot better than does plain white. The task is to to find all remaining municipalities that display a coat within the subject_name box. I've captured quite a few of them, but we need a method of chasing up the remainder. I can do it some time in the next week. --BillC 00:45, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I've reverted to the colour version, promising to deal with the articles in which (don't know for what reason) the coat is not in the proper field. Bye. --Attilios 16:29, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

How to add maps
The maps available at commons mainly map the borders of the municipality as compared to the neighboring municipalities. Possibly we could include a link like "(map)" where the list of neighboring municipalities are displayed (currently in an optional table row starting with "Surrounded by"). -- User:Docu

neighboring_municipalities
Articles in the French and Italian language version include the lists of neighboring municipalities. Maybe there is an easy way to import them for "neighboring_municipalities=". -- User:Docu


 * I guess there isn't .. quite some work ahead then. -- User:Docu


 * Hopefully the import from the Italian wikipedia works. -- User:Docu


 * It worked fairly well. Image:Kuckucksuhr.JPG lists the few remaining pages having problems. They are all non-municipalities (Appenzell (town)) or former municipalities. The template should be adapted better for former municipalities. They can easily be filtered with "municipality_type= former". Appenzell (town) could probably be merged with Appenzell (district). -- User:Docu

So the template (which is now 340 kb long) contains the neighbouring information for all municipalities in Switzerland ?? Is it really a feature ? It seems slightly crazy to me; firstly, because this can not be good for the software's performance, and secondly, because such information should be self-contained in each article (as a parameter) rather than being in this template. Schutz 22:32, 18 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Some articles include the information directly. In these cases the article data is used.
 * For all those where it was missing, it's now in the template.
 * Ideally the information would really be in the individual articles and I can have the bot run through them to load it, but when doing that, I'd like to include other updates. Are there elements you would like to include? -- User:Docu

Standardizing Geographic Coordinates
The geographic coordinates here are not following the standards used by other infoboxes. This means they are also not showing up on Google Earth's new Wikipedia layer. Can we change the infobox to follow more commonly used metrics? (see Google Earth Wikipedia Layer FAQ). I'll certainly help switch the Swiss towns over to the new standard. I'd love for all these swiss cities to be seen and read about by this great program! :) thanks, Goldfishbutt 08:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Which format would you use? (Nice to read on Google how to use templates we created on Wikipedia ;) ). The locator map, the coordinates in the infobox and the coordinates on the article currently depend on the settings in (nd, nm, ed, em) and there is an advantage of being able to enter the coordinates just once. -- User:Docu


 * The example that is given on the Google webpage is the Template:Infobox_CityIT (used for Italian cities). Maybe we could model it after this? Here you also only have to put in coordinates once (and they will show up at the top of the page), but in the style of 'coor dms N E' rather than 'nd, nm, ed, em'. Again - I'd definitely help replace the coordinates on the individual wiki pages if we could change to this standard, (just don't know how to change the CH town infobox template myself). thanks! Goldfishbutt 12:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Template:Infobox CityIT doesn't include a locator map and I don't think one could include one there without duplicating the coordinates. Maybe you might want to update the Google Earth FAQ to include infoboxes such as this one. -- User:Docu


 * Template:Infobox Afghan City seems to be an example of an infobox that has a locator map but also has its coordinates show up on Google Earth, so it looks as though it can be done. (see Kabul at 34.533° N, 69.166° E) Goldfishbutt 06:56, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * So would simply need to rename "nd" to "latd", "nm" to "latm", "ed" to "longd" and "em" to "longm"? Instead of "|nd=|nm=|ed=|em=", we will have "|latd=|latm=|latd=|latm=" ?-- User:Docu


 * Apparently this is a known problem with Google, you can solve it with the solution suggested on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geographical coordinates. -- User:Docu

Section
Moved to /Archive 1

Elevation
On test, I added a conversation to feet for the elevation (input is in meters/metres). It's visible at Template_talk:Infobox_Swiss_town/Test.

On a few articles, the elevation field includes additional information (Avers, Ormont-Dessus, Hasliberg, Bagnes, Obersaxen, Wald, Berne). To make the conversation work there, the additional information would need to go into an additional field (e.g. "altitude_description"). -- User:Docu


 * Instead of doing that, please restore the hCard markup which you recently removed, with no explanation, and no justification. Andy Mabbett 23:01, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Pigsonthewing, I think BillC explained it do you. Please comment on the issue at hand, i.e. the elevation field. -- User:Docu


 * Nobody has explained any such thing; and it remains the issue at hand until it is properly addressed. My name remains, Andy Mabbett 23:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Photograph?
Would people here appreciate adding an optional photograph field to the template, maybe below Canton/District? It would give us a standardised way to add a representative photograph to each article, especially for the smaller municipalities whose articles don't have a photograph yet. Sandstein 16:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I would appreciate it so much I was asking myself the same question yesterday... so yes for me. Schutz 17:20, 3 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It may be worth doing it. The infobox would get even more lenghty though.
 * Some time ago, I checked the category to make sure commonscat is added where a category with the same name is available.
 * BTW, here is the selection used on infobox lake: WikiProject Lakes/Galleries-- User:Docu


 * This has been done for Template:Infobox German Location and can work rather well (eg. see Cologne). But there is always the problem with people selecting images that are taller than they are wide, making the photo too long in comparison to the rest of the infobox. IMO it's a good feature, but you have to be careful with image choice. - 52 Pickup 08:23, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Semi-protected
I have semi-d this infobox, since it is used on 2700+ articles. Rich Farmbrough, 10:58 22 September 2007 (GMT).


 * I'm not sure if it's worth doing it, but, if you do, you may want to protect it completely. -- User:Docu

Proposed new version
I propose a number of changes to the template. By using some of the code setup that is used by similar templates, the code can be simplified and the length of the infobox reduced. Apart from the condensation of the code and the template's appearance, there are a number of other things that I have included in this new version:
 * Population density: For this to work correctly, all commas have to be removed from population values. I think this can be done with a bot.
 * Coordinates displayed only in the title bar, removing that annoying globe icon from the table.
 * Canton flags: Given the value for "canton", the corresponding canton flag should appear in the top-right corner.

As requested above, a photo may be added to this template, but I have added that code to the template yet.

What do you think? - 52 Pickup (talk) 11:08, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Definitely an improvement,thanks! I would greatly appreciate it if you could come up with a version that optionally incorporates a photograph in the place of the coat of arms, possibly moving the coat to a new column to the right of the "Country/Canton/District" section. Sandstein (talk) 11:22, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Photo now added, along with optional caption field. Placing the Country/Canton/District fields next to the CoA is a very good idea and I'll give it a try. At first I tried to have the names in various languages next to the CoA image but thought that that might not be such a helpful addition.
 * This test template is located here. Please test it out on other entries so any bugs can be identified. - 52 Pickup (talk) 12:12, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

A copy of the proposed version is now at Template:Infobox Swiss town/sandbox to enable preview of the test cases on Template:Infobox Swiss town/testcases. Good work. -- User:Docu
 * I like the reduced horizontal spacing. Especially for neighboring muncipalities, twin towns, places this is an advantage.
 * If there were a way to reduce the size of the photo, this would be helpful. Currently one has to scroll quite far to view the main data.
 * Personally, I'd maintain the display of the coordinates, given that they are defined in the template.
 * As the Swiss map can't be displayed next to the coat of arms, I suppose some other data could go there and save space.
 * Personally, I wouldn't bold the labels on the left side of the table.
 * Coat of arms of canton and country may remind some of Swiss car number plates. I wouldn't include them in the infobox, even if other boxes may do.
 * The font size seems to work mainly in monobook, compare other skins:
 * The borders around some of the fields structure the box better.


 * I made some changes to the template at Template:Infobox Swiss town/sandbox (results at Template:Infobox Swiss town/testcases). There is still at lot of space next to the coat of arms. Maybe SFOS and ZIP code could go there as well. -- User:Docu


 * Thanks for the improvements! Some proposals:
 * I think the photograph looks better at the top of the box, as in User:52 Pickup/Drafts/Infobox Swiss town (compare Template:Infobox German Location).
 * What's the cuckoo clock for? At 9 px, it looks like a squashed mouse... If it has a purpose, using a standard clockface icon might be advisable.
 * I propose we put the geocoordinates in the title bar - most readers won't need them, and those who do, will first look for them in the usual place. However, we could put the Swiss map coordinates in the infobox (e.g., 600 000 / 200 000 for Berne), as many Swiss people will be familiar with them.
 * The SFOS code is also something that very few people will be interested in. If we want to put something else to the right of the coat of arms, maybe the population count would do?
 * Sandstein (talk) 20:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that the current formatting of the photograph isn't ideal (the line needs fixing), but unless we arrange the top of the box differently, I think we'd get too many images before getting any info.
 * The cuckoo clock should only appear with outdated parameters. All infoboxes displaying should be either in the article's history or need to be fixed.
 * Next to the coat of arms, area and population, possibly elevation would be ideal, but we would probably need to do away with the conversions.
 * -- User:Docu


 * The problem with photo size is one that you cannot really avoid if you want to have a photo option. Even though there is the variable imagesize, many people will not use it. And, as mentioned above, a problem we have with the German Location Infobox is where people use images that are too tall. You don't want to squash the images, and it is not easy to keep watch on all articles to make sure that pictures with decent dimensions are used. In short, there is no real solution to this problem, except for not having a photo at all.
 * With the coordinates returned to the table (and tweaking the CoA size), the space next to the CoA is IMO now well-filled. Not all CoAs have the same dimensions (eg. Zürich) so you don't want to jam too much in there. I've also just made some modifications to the template so that if no CoA is given, then these fields will be displayed just like the others (same alignment, etc.).
 * The canton flag thing was just something I made up for this template, I don't think this is done anywhere else. The resemblance to Swiss number plates is somewhat deliberate, but the main inspiration for doing this came from the Swiss TV news where a lot of the time, the canton flag appears when discussing a certain location.
 * Articles using older variables can easily be placed in a temporary maintenance category (eg. see the German maintenance category) so these articles can be rapidly identified and the fields can be updated. It is also possible to integrate multiple variable names without duplicating large slabs of code.
 * Political parties (new point): since the variable mayor_party is almost always given as a party abbreviation, it is possible to use this to link directly to that party's article. This is done using polparty. This is used in the German location infobox where if you enter "SPD", then the box will display SPD . For this to work, the Swiss parties must be fed into the polparty template, which is not difficult.
 * Categorisation (another new point): At the moment, all articles using this template get placed in the "Municipalities of Switzerland" category. Wouldn't it make more sense to categorise each location by canton? This can also be easily done (although i probably don't have the canton category names correct just yet). If an unacceptable value is given for the canton, then the article can then be assigned to a maintenance category (and my version also now has a warning icon to draw attention to the error) - so then the canton value can be corrected, or the different value can be added to the switches within the template code.
 * 52 Pickup (talk) 17:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Photo size/photo placement - I'm aware that photo size can't be entirely controlled, but if you place the image in the top section of the template, even if the image isn't much longer than large, you can't see much of the data further below. Now that some information is displayed next to the coat of arms, this is somewhat improved, but it may still be preferable to place the photo after area/population data. BTW with pages like WikiProject Lakes/Galleries one can review the images used in infoboxes.
 * CoA layout: thank you for improving it. It looks much better now.
 * Canton flag: I'm told that this is something that is liked. A solution could be the one used on the Canadian infoboxes, check, e.g. Toronto.
 * Old fields: it's unlikely that you find them in the current version of articles, but if we don't include them in the current template, the page history gets somewhat unreadable. Maybe we could have the category for maintenance and some notice above the infobox mainly for displaying older versions of articles. -- User:Docu
 * Political parties: ok with me (please note that there may at least two abbreviations for each party, personally I use the one in both languages.
 * Categorisation: all articles are already in categories for cantons. As not everyone likes automatic categorisation, I think we should limit it to the present two categories.
 * BTW, in general, it's easier to pick the correct canton if you use "iso-region". -- User:Docu


 * Check for obsolete variables and absence of iso-region:
 * Given iso-region, this makes the "canton" variable largely obsolete. At the moment, the links under the Canton section do not always go directly to the right article: not all articles are named "Canton of..." and many links to the sections within "Districts of Switzerland" do not work properly. Even though redirects are cheap, the canton details could be easily controlled from within the template once iso-region is supplied.
 * Political parties: I've just made a few Swiss additions to the polparty template. Multiple abbreviations for the same party is possible, e.g.:


 * }
 * ...or the code can easily be changed so that all 3 options display "SVP/UDC". It is easy to add this template to the infobox - - where only the final field is required. - 52 Pickup (talk) 16:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * }
 * ...or the code can easily be changed so that all 3 options display "SVP/UDC". It is easy to add this template to the infobox - - where only the final field is required. - 52 Pickup (talk) 16:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * }
 * ...or the code can easily be changed so that all 3 options display "SVP/UDC". It is easy to add this template to the infobox - - where only the final field is required. - 52 Pickup (talk) 16:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
 * }
 * ...or the code can easily be changed so that all 3 options display "SVP/UDC". It is easy to add this template to the infobox - - where only the final field is required. - 52 Pickup (talk) 16:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I added a few combinations to polparty. The field for the party is not used that often. Even if the ISO region code is available, I'd still include a field for the name in text. It's easier to understand for many. Besides, links to the canton articles always worked. -- User:Docu

Well actually I would rather convert then all to a standard template and rid entirely of "Swiss town infobox". Why should Switzerland be special and have its own? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦      $1,000,000? 19:32, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Because Swiss municipalities have attributes such as a coat of arms, canton, district, SFOS number and postal code that are probably not well suited for display in a generic infobox. Sandstein (talk) 20:07, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I may be wrong about this; Infobox Settlement looks rather complete. The best way to convince us would be to (a) explain what practical and substantial benefit a migration would bring, (b) produce well-looking mockups based on the standard box and (c) propose (and be ready to carry out) a practicable migration plan. Sandstein (talk) 20:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Personally I find it easy to use this template's extraction by Templatetiger to do maintenance. Possibly someone has experience to share doing it with a more frequently used one. -- User:Docu

Elevation
At Template:Infobox_Swiss_town/testcases, four new fields are being tested: (    . The optional fields can be used to add the elevation and name of the highest point in the municipality, similar to the fields already in use for the infobox for cantons. I removed the conversion to ft as it took up too much space. -- User:Docu

Incorrect calculation for old measurements?
Can someone please check the calculations with miles? Eppenberg-Wöschnau has Population=319, Area=1.89 km², Density=169 /km² which is correct; but Population=319, Area=0.7 sq mi, Density=65 /sq.mi.. Shouldn't that be 456 /sq.mi.? -- Jeandré, 2008-04-18t11:12z
 * Thanks. The coefficent (1.6093442) was on the wrong side of the expression. It should be fixed now. &mdash; BillC talk 17:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Placement of map


Blofeld tried to implement three changes:
 * 1. switch the locator map from Image:Karte Schweiz.png to Image:Switzerland map blank.png
 * 2. place the map at the top rather than at the bottom of the infobox. This change can be previewed at Template:Infobox Swiss town/testcases
 * 3. reduce the size of the coat of arms (at least in one of the versions). This change can be previewed at Template:Infobox Swiss town/testcases

Personally, I favor point (3.): It reduces the space used and one has to scroll less to see more of the information. As for (2.): in general, I'd rather see first the other information. For (1.), the map shows adds too much space around the actual map. -- User:Docu


 * You do realise that having the map at the bottom is completely against the standard template where it is at the top with room for a photograph. The Swiss town infobox does neither of this and frustratingly it can't be edited and have the flexibility that a standard template has. I'm not too concerned about the map although I think a map with colour rather than greyscale is more attractive, but if we must have a seperate infobox, can the map at least be moved to the top and a new paramter added for a top photograph as 98% of other places have??  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 19:58, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * If you examine well over 95% of other places on wikipedia you'll see it is standard to have the map locator at the top. Photograph at the very top, map underneath and then all the data neatly underneath. The standard infobox Settlmeent ande city all use this and most countries on the planet on wikipedia have evolved this way. Only a few countries like Switzerland and Slovakia insist on having it at the bottom  ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 20:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Which municipalities' templates are you comparing to?
 * BTW you can add a photograph with "|image_photo=", but there isn't much demand for this parameter since it was introduced. Possibly because images in infoboxes are not supported by some of the image layers based on Wikipedia articles. -- User:Docu


 * Well, I'm trying to use the photo parameter when I come across a town article. On the matter at hand, I agree with Docu's assessment. In a comparatively small country such as Switzerland, the geographical location is probably not the most important point of information for the international reader. Sandstein (talk) 20:14, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I like to see things consistent all across wikipedia and this Swiss template is backwards. It would look much better with a photo paramter at the top too, particularly for a country as scenic as Switzerland. All templates such as even lakes and infoboxes for mountains always have a photo at the very top. For me the photograph should be at the top. This isn't to do with information importance as obviously the data is more important, but I strongly think it gives the appearance more weight this way and is an overall improvement. If the infobox could be changed so there is a photo parameter which is at the absolute top and a map this is all I ask you to think about. Regards ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦       $1,000,000? 20:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Why can't you guys just use the standard? Looks much more attractive. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blofeld of SPECTRE (talk • contribs)
 * Please add your preferred versions to Template:Infobox Swiss town/testcases rather than to live articles. This makes it easier to compare. -- User:Docu