Template talk:Infobox artist/Archive 3

Switch backend to use infobox
Okay, it looks like I tried this back in October 2009, but due to other format/field disagreements, the conversion got lost in reversion of other stuff (e.g., influenced, influenced by, signature, ...). So, I now resubmit for your consideration, a new sandbox version here. I tried my best to keep it the same as the current template, so the only real change is in the backend. Some notable other minor changes are a slight increase in the font size, and some minor changes in spacing. However, it should be very close, and even includes the blue header bar. You can open the two in side by side browsers if you want to compare. Let me know if you see any problems. Hopefully, this much is not controversial. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 22:31, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Why is the font size being increased? The only change from the most recent revision of the live template pre-rv which is needed is to flip the  /   to   /   and add an  . Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 22:42, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I started from the version in October 2009. I have now removed the additional bodystyle field, to use the default, which does match the current fontsize.  Thanks for noticing! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  22:52, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * There's more space vertically between lines in the sandbox version than in the current version. Can that be reduced?  Ty  00:43, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Should be possible with the line-height option, I will work on it. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 00:46, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, how's that? Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 00:56, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's virtually spot on.  Ty  01:13, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Why is the line height a problem here when it isn't a problem on virtually any infobox-based template? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 07:06, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not a problem now as it's been adjusted. I made the point initially because the line spacing is more than the existing usage and hence increases the vertical height of the box, which adds to problems of running into images lower down: this sometimes creates large white spaces in the display.  Ty  13:31, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The question was why this was uniquely a problem in the artist infobox and not in the vast majority of infobox-based templates which use the default line height. Again, I would suggest that the current line height is arbitrary and that there is no particularly pressing reason to override the default used by infobox. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 14:06, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * If the infobox uses a larger line spacing than is necessary and takes up more vertical space than needed, then I suggest that the spacing is modified in the default.  Ty  15:20, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, other discussions aside, are there any objections to taking the first step and copying the current sandbox code to the template? If not, I will make the change.  We can work on line-height, colors, etc. as a follow-up, if anyone still cares at that point. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  15:36, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * No objection if it gives the same options to editors, which seems to be the case.  Ty  17:38, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, since that much seems to be uncontroversial, I have made the change. Hopefully we can now work from here as far as tweaking other things, like colouring, line-height, field names, widths, ...  It would be useful if the field names could match other infoboxes when possible, For example, I believe most if not all the field names correspond to fields used by Infobox person.  Using standard field names between templates would be less confusing.  I may have a look and propose something later, or someone else can if they care about such things.  Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  21:54, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Person
It seems that this was never resolved, The simplest fix would be to merge the infobox with Infobox person, there being only a couple of parameters not already in that template. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 20:58, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Resting Place
Over at it was agreed a few months ago to add a restingplace field. so that we can put in the infobox where people's remains are. I'd like to have that on this template, too.

The consensus there was a resting place is occasionally useful, if used wisely: not every person, or even many, have a resting place notable or relevant enough to their biography to warrant it, but for those who do, it's kinda important enough for the infobox (e.g. if they are buried in Westminster Abbey or whatever). At infobox writer, we stopped short of having a cause of death (I hadn't expected or particularly wanted to get this in, but I threw it in for discussion). The full discussion is here.

There's precedent at as well. Si Trew (talk) 21:45, 15 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Where are we with this? It's an eminently sensible addition. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 20:47, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Alma mater
Could we add an alma mater? It's interesting for people to see where an artist went to college. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daze21 (talk • contribs) 20:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Suggested additions...
Hi there,

I wondered if it might be possible to add the following parameters to the existing template:


 * Ethnicity - I'm currently working on an article about an Arawak artist from Guyana. So 'ethnicity' (as in Infobox person) would allow me to include the fact that this artist is Arawakan (and this is the main way in which he self-identifies) whereas Nationality alone does not.


 * Additional occupations - The artist I am writing about is both an artist and an archaeologist, and has achieved recognition in both professions. I'm sure it's fairly common for artists to have more than one occupation that features importantly in their lives...

Thank you!

Loriski (talk) 14:29, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Embed parameter
It would be better if this template had the embed parameter, like in Infobox military person, to be used with Infobox person. Blond (talk) 08:48, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I've put what I think is into the sandbox. It could do with testing. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:58, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: I've deactivated the edit request for now, but feel free to reactivate after you are sure this has been tested properly. — Mr. Stradivarius  (have a chat) 11:45, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
 * your suggestion, Redrose64, looks correct to me. Frietjes (talk) 01:00, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:50, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from Michaelm55, 14 December 2012
Perhaps the signature parameter that was included in Template:Infobox writer could be included in this one, too? Michaelm55 (talk) 16:35, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * This has been discussed in the past and decided against by consensus...Modernist (talk) 16:42, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, ok. Well, it was worth a shot. :) Michaelm55 (talk) 16:48, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * see the most recent thread from about three years ago. Frietjes (talk) 19:16, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks Frietjes. I'll be sure to read that in my spare time. Michaelm55 (talk) 14:40, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 December 2012
change the word patrons in infobox to the word collections

Biirdy (talk) 03:41, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. This change might be controversial, as it would change the meaning of the field, and if we changed the parameter name it would break existing transclusions that use it. If you want this change to be implemented, I suggest you do the following:
 * Make a new post below outlining exactly why you want to make this change
 * Leave a post at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts notifying the editors there about this discussion
 * Wait for posts here from other editors
 * If there is a consensus to make this change among the editors that comment here after, say, seven days, then please reactivate the edit protected template and someone will make the change for you. Best — Mr. Stradivarius  (have a chat) 09:08, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request to add autograph
Pleas add the signature parameter from. It should simply be copy-pastable. I uploaded File:Alfons Mucha signature from letter.jpg, only to find I can't actually use it in the inbox at Alfons Mucha. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib.  17:19, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * please read thread 1 and thread 2 and the thread about two sections above this one. Frietjes (talk) 18:01, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Collectives
This infobox is being used on Gilbert & George and, no doubt, for other partnerships and collectives. We either need a separate "Infobox art collective" or, perhaps better, to add a members parameter to this one. The presence of the latter could then be used as a switch for other properties which may or may not be appropriate in such circumstances. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:32, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Honorifics
Please sync from the sandbox, to include markup, copied from Infobox person, to add honorific_prefix and honorific_suffix as used in that infobox. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:47, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Please leave proposals for a few days in case other people want to comment, before applying editprotected &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) }
 * Support proposal. See Arthur Boyd . Rangasyd (talk) 06:47, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 31 May 2013
please change to which fixes this template after a recent update to infobox which removed the bolding, and marks it as being fixed by removing the tracking category. see this thread for a related change to another person template.
 * title     =
 * title     =
 * decat     = yes

Frietjes (talk) 18:11, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done. Thanks! — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 04:26, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

No parameters for relatives?
I'm surprised there's no parameter for "Parents" or "Children", for Infobox creators to infill or leave blank according to relevance. Many artists are the offspring of equally famous artists. I think the additional parameter could be very useful, to help summarise important relationships at-a-glance. Note how, given no such optional parameters to use, the creator(s) of Hans Holbein the Younger had to use the "Influenced by" paramemeter to get his elder namesake in! Influenced by his dad, well well! Similarly Hans Holbein the Elder's Infobox says he "influenced" Hans Holbein the Younger and Ambrosius Holbein, although you have to read the full article to find they were his sons! Other families who could benefit from the extra Infobox parameter(s) are the Freuds (Lucien Freud and Jane McAdam Freud, the Nicholsons painters [[Sir William Nicholson and Mabel Pryde, with children including artist Ben Nicholson, artist Nancy Nicholson and architect Christopher Nicholson), the Berninis (Gian Lorenzo Bernini and author son Domenico Bernini), the Breugels (Pieter Bruegel the Elder and sons - their father apparently died too young to "influence" them, and thus that parameter if used would have to state their grandmother, artist Mayken Verhulst!). Artistic relatives are rarer than theatrical relatives, but they do exist! With no optional extra "relatives" parameters there's a potential for inconsistency, too. Take the Renoirs for example: Pierre-Auguste Renoir's "artist" Infobox has no "children" parameter and yet his children, filmmaker Jean Renoir and actor Pierre Renoir, have "person" Infoboxes that can include their "father" whenenever anyone desires to expand them from basic to full parameter boxes. Are artists' box "parents/children" paramemeters forbidden or deprecated, or are editors allowed the discretion of adding particular parents or children to the artist Infobox wherever it seems appropriate or useful? Pete Hobbs (talk) 19:11, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * indeed, this was requested before. Frietjes (talk) 19:44, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * What nonsense! The "influence" field is one of the problems of this box, very often badly misleading, or filled up with long lists of dubious modern people in fields like music & literature who once said in an interview they liked the artist (try William Blake). Pieter Brueghel the Younger, one of two artist sons of P the Elder, did little else but copy his father's works, and telling them apart still gives difficulties. The more parameters you add the more people will fill them up, adding bloat & clutter but what is in most cases not very crucial information. Johnbod (talk) 15:56, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with Johnbod that "The more parameters you add the more people will fill them up, adding bloat & clutter but what is in most cases not very crucial information." I also agree that "The 'influence' field is one of the problems of this box, very often badly misleading…" I find the Infoboxes problematic. They require the simplistic filling in of fields where information is nuanced. The body of the article has to be read to convey information in context, except for those aspects of information that lend themselves to simple presentation. Bus stop (talk) 19:48, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
 * In fact you can just leave fields alone, in which case they don't show at all, but the temptation is to fill them in. Johnbod (talk) 03:04, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The request is to add a relatives field, to reduce overloading on the existing influenced field. That we have an article on an artist's parent, child or sibling is rarely ambiguous, and often worthy of inclusion. We are perfectly able to deal with this paameter in other infoboxes, not least infobox person, without major harm; the answer to inappropriate content (if that's not tilting at windmills) is to educate the users concerned, not to deny the availability of useful parameters. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:57, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * If you want to use relatives, before the parameter is available in this infobox, you can always use infobox person and embed this infobox within it. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:57, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I support the proposal to have a field for relatives added to this infobox.  Schwede 66  18:58, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Request for Nicknames
Could the nicknames field be added to this template please? speednat (talk) 23:16, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 11 December 2013
I have added TemplateData information for this template. Please make a null edit to update the database. (See here.) Thanks!

Guoguo12 (Talk)  04:22, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Done - Evad37 &#91;talk] 04:55, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Guoguo12 (Talk)  04:57, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

I have just added some final details to the TemplateData. Could someone please make another null edit to update the database? Thanks. Guoguo12 (Talk)  20:23, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done -- John of Reading (talk) 20:39, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Er... yes, done. ;-)  Little Mountain  5 </b> 20:42, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, I just learned the difference between a null edit and a dummy edit. Seems I've been doing it wrong. Cheers, <b style="font-variant:small-caps;"> Little Mountain  5 </b> 20:55, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Guoguo12 (Talk)  21:01, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Spouse?
The Usage section and the template data include the parameter "spouse", which is not mentioned in the Parameters section. Who wins?--Qgil (talk) 23:33, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The template source code has a "spouse" parameter (example), so the TemplateData wins. I'll update the parameters. Guoguo12 (Talk)  03:07, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

No field for "active date"
IT appears somewhere along the line the "active date" parameter has disappeared. I've been expanding the article for Sharaku, whose birth and death dates are unkown—it would be helpful to have an "active date" field to give some idea of what period he came from. Curly Turkey (gobble) 04:08, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I could see adding years_active like we have in infobox musical artist. we should see if there are any objections. Frietjes (talk) 18:15, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Embedding voice files
A project I'm running, and a related event in mid-January will soon add around a thousand recordings of article subjects' voices to their biographies. I'd like to embed those in the relevant infoboxes, as in (using Infobox person). Can we add the necessary module parameter to this template? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:37, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * No, please - give them their own little box. Much too crufty and against WP:INFOBOX principles. Of course adding them is an excellent idea, but not in the main box. Johnbod (talk) 17:57, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes please. Nobody except Johnbod would prefer to . It works well with infobox person, and it should be just as useful in this template. --RexxS (talk) 20:07, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 30 December 2013
It would be helpful if were added around the resting place coordinate template. Thanks!

<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'> CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 16:58, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I've made the edit, though since this was only a change to the documentation page, Template:Infobox artist/doc, you could have done it yourself. -- John of Reading (talk) 17:03, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry, I meant to the template itself. I tried to edit it and was referred to this page. If a user, like me, copies the template



from the Template:Infobox artist page, a message: "Resting place 	LAT°N LON°ECoordinates: LAT°N LON°E Invalid arguments have been passed to the function: invalid latitude: invalid latitude " appears in the infobox. I should have been clearer.--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'> CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 23:07, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
 * My fault! I edited the documentation but did not remember to purge the template page. Without that step, my edit did not show on the template page itself, where it was needed. It should be OK now. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:11, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Excellent, yes, it works fine now!--<span style='text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD;'> CaroleHenson  ( talk ) 14:19, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Honorific prefix
I would like to suggest adding parameter to the infobox:    ...which functions as with other person infoboxes. An example relates to Professor Willy Stöwer; I can only add this as an "award" which isn't really correct. ~:71.20.250.51 (talk) 20:49, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree; and have added that and honorific_suffix based on the code in Infobox person, but without the legacy, underscore-free versions, and allowing for this template's use as an embedded module. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:05, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Works fine. ~E:71.20.250.51 (talk) 23:57, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Signatures
I would like to see the signatures of artists like Edgar Degas on the box but the box does not have this option right now. Please add this option to it, thanks. ماني a.k.a. &#91;&#91;User:Mani1&#93;&#93; (talk) 21:21, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * see the most recent thread. Frietjes (talk) 01:27, 19 March 2014 (UTC)