Template talk:Infobox fraternity/Archive 2

Additional parameter
I think it would be valuable to add a parameter field for Conference, to be centered in the template immediately below the field for. Many of these organizations belong to one of the major Greek Letter conferences, while the rest would be listed as former members of one ore more of these, or as locals.

For reference, the available North American conference links could be:
 * Association of College Honor Societies, abbreviated as ACHS
 * Concilio Interfraternitario Puertorriqueño de la Florida, abbreviated as CIPFI
 * Fraternity Forward Coalition, abbreviated as FFC (an emerging conference)
 * National Association of Latino Fraternal Organizations, abbreviated as NALFO
 * National APIDA Panhellenic Association, abbreviated as NAPA
 * National Multicultural Greek Council, abbreviated as NMGC
 * National Pan-Hellenic Council, abbreviated as NPHC
 * National Panhellenic Conference, abbreviated as NPC
 * North American Interfraternity Conference, abbreviated as NIC
 * Professional Fraternity Association, abbreviated as PFA
 * United Council of Christian Fraternities and Sororities, abbreviated as UCCFS

There may be others. This parameter ought to allow Wikilinks, affiliation with multiple conferences and additional modifiers, separated by commas, such as (former), (independent), or (local). Thoughts?

Jax MN (talk) 15:59, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Agree with the parameter, but I don't agree on the location. I think it should be down below with a label. To use the last example, I think simply having UCCFS without any explanation at the top is confusing, while having United Council of Christian Fraternities and Sororities in the same place is too long. I suggest Council as the most neutral Label. Naraht (talk) 19:02, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, NAPA was an article and deleted, under the old name, National APIA Panhellenic Association Naraht (talk) 19:05, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Your alternative placement suggestion sounds reasonable, and certainly it ought to have a label. Naming the parameter as "Council" or maybe "Association" would be fine.  I wanted something which could allow for the word 'local' as well.  "Nat'l Association" or "Nat'l Council"?  As to the NAPA article, I'd left a number of redlinks in articles, assuming that one of us would get around to reviving and improving the original NAPA article. Clearly NAPA or NAPIDA is notable, with multiple citations available.  I haven't yet investigated why the original was deleted. As a citation, the Baird's Online Archive will helpfully reference its member fraternities and indicates if they have an Asian or Pacific Islander affinity. Jax MN (talk) 19:32, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, the term used into the template that these are in is "Greek Umbrella Organization" which I'd *really* prefer something better.Naraht (talk) 19:46, 26 April 2021 (UTC) They moved the NAPA article into my personal area at my request, If you've got references so we can move it back that would be great.Naraht (talk) 19:46, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * NAPA is relatively new, but is occasionally in the press. Here are a couple of external references:
 * NAPA noted in the Baird's Archive
 * NAPA noted in the αΚΔΦ citation, in the Baird's Archive
 * As to "Greek Umbrella Organization", I agree that it isn't the best phrase. I don't see why we'd have to use it. Note too, I'd suggest that the template instructions clarify that this isn't for the name of a local Panhel (campus) group, but for a national association. Jax MN (talk) 19:58, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I found another template with a formatting style for multiple affiliations that may work for us: .  See its affiliations param. I don't see this change as particularly controversial. You,, have experience in editing templates. Would you be so kind as to do this one? Jax MN (talk) 16:27, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Let's actually figure out what we're doing before we start editing the template. From the sounds of it, the plan at the moment sounds like having either an affiliation or council parameter, which would have a label and a switch statement that would link to one of the above options (e.g. input ACHS and it would output ). Does that sound about right? Primefac (talk) 15:03, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * For positive entries, that seems fine. In the case of missing affiliations, or where the "affiliation" is simply 'local' or 'independent' or where a modifier like 'formerly' is needed, I'd like to ensure the parameter allows these words.  Along with multiple affiliations: Alpha Gamma Rho for example is a member of both the PFA and NIC. Jax MN (talk) 15:36, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, the #default would be the input, allowing for multiple or non-standard values. Primefac (talk) 15:42, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
 * So the idea would be to allow for other inputs, but to have a fixed list of attributes that would cause links to specific pages. So ACHS would give   but OTOH, FOOA woud give   and FOOA would give  Naraht (talk)
 * For the second one, I assume you mean it would be more like BAR, which would give . Primefac (talk) 13:21, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

In other words: If an input doesn't match one of the pre-set values, then it will simply return that value without any formatting, meaning you can pass a Wikilink and it will display as intended. Primefac (talk) 13:26, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * dataX =
 * Thank you for expressing it! but I'm worried about Alpha Phi Alpha which belongs to both the NPHC and the NIC (and there are at least half a dozen more, NIC&NPHC or NIC&NALFO, I think. Is the dataX logic what would make both nphc and NPHC give the same result regardless of capitalization? And is there any way to extract "formerly" from the string and add it to the result? (yes, I'm looking for sprinkles on my Sundae. :))Naraht (talk) 14:00, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I mean, we could in theory add a million different cases to the switch, but really I set it up like that just to keep some of the code cleaner (and yes, it is case-insensitive). I personally think that if the subject is part of two groups, then it would be added manually (e.g. NALFO and NIC). The other option would be to add an affiliation2 param which would add the "and" in the above example. Regarding "formerly", I do not think we should include that option; if they're not in a council/conference, it should not be in the infobox (that sort of content is better for prose). Primefac (talk) 14:04, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * which sprinkles do you want on your Sundae? :) I'd prefer affiliation2 but I agree with Primefac on formerly that it should instead be in Prose. Also, is there any way to count the number of articles in which this infobox use a particular parameter or even a particular value for a parameter?Naraht (talk) 14:43, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * This template uses TemplateData, so if a param is added it will show up there (lag time is a month, as the info is only cached on the first day), so if it's a more immediate need for tracking a tracking category should be set up. Primefac (talk) 14:53, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Catching up, thanks for developing the code,, and to both of you for working through potential issues. The reason I hoped to allow "formerly" as one of the modifiers is its importance in suggesting their type.  Phi Beta Kappa is formerly a member of the ACHS, certainly with no need to remain listed in that association: They are noteworthy enough.  But articles for many lesser-known honor societies would benefit from the reminder that they once were ACHS, versus some other type. In that same vein, casual readers would appreciate understanding where FFC fraternities were previously NIC groups. It helps to clarify their niche. Next, I see you caught the issue of forcing all-caps where someone inputs "achs" vs. "ACHS". Good.  Next, maybe the label for the param should be "Associations(s)" to allow for potential plural affiliations. Finally, there are at least 150 articles for local fraternities or literary societies where the param would be "local". As a Term of Art within the fraternal world, that word probably deserves its own link or definition. Outsiders may not know what "local" means in this context. Jax MN (talk) 16:08, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
 * For local, I suggest a link to Fraternities_and_sororities. My guess is that a majority of formerly aren't FFC, they are either groups that left the PFA and ACHS or were NIC/NPC that merged with other groups.Naraht (talk) 15:09, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I would argue that's more of a type than an affiliation. If a group isn't affiliated with any council, coalition, or conference (etc), then this parameter wouldn't be used. Primefac (talk) 16:11, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
 * , Bumping. And I agree that "Local" and IFC are not measuing the same thing. Kappa Beta Gamma is outside all of the affiliation groups, but isn't Local.Naraht (talk) 19:41, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Are we all good with calling it "Affiliation"? If so, I'll update the template. Primefac (talk) 11:46, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I support the change. Thanks! Jax MN (talk) 16:27, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Any progress on this? *Thank you for your work on this!*Naraht (talk) 13:18, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. Primefac (talk) 15:26, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Working!
Thank you ! I have added it to Alpha Phi Omega. I added affiliation to the list of acceptable parameters at the bottom. Let's see how that works and see how much need there is for affiliation2.Naraht (talk) 22:27, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Were one of you adjusting the page description and template on the article: Template:Infobox fraternity? Looks great. Jax MN (talk) 00:43, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I've just added the affiliation param to several of the NAPA fraternities. Looking at Beta Chi Theta they are members of both NAPA and the NIC.  Does use of both acronyms separate by a comma, does this negate their Wikilinks, requiring manual links? Jax MN (talk) 13:22, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I think I've added what neads to for the document.Naraht (talk) 14:58, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, it will negate the wikillinks. That's (and Alpha Phi Alpha and the other NPHC/NIC groups) was the reason that affiliation2 was also proposed.Naraht (talk) 14:58, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Affilation2
So, what would affilation2 look like. Same as affiliation, but if it exists, it would simply have ' and ' and then the same set as the first? Also, we know of at least 5 groups that need two groups (Beta Chi Theta and the NPHC Fraternities other than Omega Psi Phi) how many more? I'm excluding the entries where one or both is a "former" (the ACHS crossovers with the PFA(and its predecessors) would actually be the worst). Do we have any triple affiliations?Naraht (talk)
 * Oh, yeah, forgot about that. I can add it in. Primefac (talk) 22:03, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I cannot think of a triple affiliation. Such a situation would be expensive, and I know the major fraternities well enough to know their affiliations, limited to one or two. Jax MN (talk) 03:33, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

Progress
Completed groupings. (making and adding to this list as we go). This assumes the list of current and former members on each of these linked WP articles is accurate:
 * ACHS - Former groups done. Active groups updated through end of Alpha (many infoboxes added) - Did a search for the ACHS Category without an infobox. 20 of them. Can't add the affiliation if they don't have an infobox. So we have to create the infoboxes... (Naraht)
 * CIPFI - Completed. (Jax_MN)
 * FFC - Completed (Jax_MN)
 * NALFO - Active groups completed. Some of the former groups may still need annotation. (Naraht) Former groups now noted. (Jax_MN)
 * NAPA - Completed. (Jax_MN)
 * NMGC - Completed (those with WP pages). There's a discrepancy on the website and WP, one group may have dropped. (Jax_MN)
 * NIC - Completed: active, former and dormant (Jax_MN)
 * NPC - Completed: active and former. (Jax_MN)
 * NPHC - (Affiliation done by, Naraht added affiliation2 for APHiA, KAPsi and IPhiTheta, (and found to his surprise that PhiBS was no longer NIC))
 * PFA - Completed: current and former groups (except a few former affiliates without infoboxes). One exception: Concatenated Order of Hoo-Hoo, listed on the PFA page, but not on the PFA page. I wrote to both organizations. Listed in error? (Jax_MN)
 * UCCFS - Completed (I may have done these; it was late. Heh. Jax_MN)


 * local groups with WP article on our watchlist are now noted with "local" as scope; For these I did not use the affiliation param. (Note, this is IF they have Wikipedia articles AND infoboxes) (Jax_MN)
 * non-affiliated or never-affiliated national groups should be updated using the unlinked word "independent" on the affiliation parameter line.

I've placed a manual link in the affiliation field and the word "(former)" to show groups that have left one of the conferences. Jax MN (talk) 13:17, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Looks like we will need another affiliation group. Four of the premier Honor societies have formed a consortium called Honor Society Caucus. No WP article yet. These are: Phi Beta Kappa, Phi Kappa Phi, Sigma Xi, and Omicron Delta Kappa.


 * Note, I fixed the second of these references to omit the spurious mirror site "honorsociety.org", which seems parasitical and maybe a scam. I don't know why they were advertising the Caucus.


 * I added a paragraph on the ACHS page, within the Former Members section, to talk about the Honor Society Caucus. I created a page name redirect to this section. I see that Phi Kappa Phi mentions it, listing all the members on a page on their website, which seems proof enough.  Curiously, the other three members don't have a mention of it that I can see from a cursory review.  But Purdue University also mentions them.  I therefore do not know when the group was founded, nor its parameters.  I assume that these large, established groups don't need much in the way of support, and don't want to pay ACHS dues.  But they use the Caucus for lobbying, perhaps.  I've updated all four articles so that each mention their prior membership in the ACHS, and their current participation in the Caucus. Still to do, add the Caucus to this Affiliation param for the infobox, and update the template to reflect these four former members as part of a new group. Jax MN (talk) 04:35, 23 October 2021 (UTC)