Template talk:Infobox religious biography/Archive 1

Religious Infobox
Hi there, on the religious infobox you made, you have post=, but when this is used it appears as "Previous Post". This seemingly makes the infobox useless for any living person. I would like to adjust it, but thought better to contact you first and see if there was any particular reason for this. Thanks Chopper Dave (talk) 18:08, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean but if you can improve it, give 'er -- Esemono (talk) 03:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Example Romapada Swami‎. The users have filled out the post field of the infobox with Sanyassi, which is his post. However for whatever reason, it comes up as "Previous Post", like he's no longer a Sanyassi. So they have had to write "(He still is a sannyasi)" which is just silly. Agree? Chopper Dave (talk) 03:27, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * OK I tweaked it so now there are two fields:
 * previous_post =
 * present_post =

and so Romapada Swami reads like this:

And added age template as well.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Esemono (talk • contribs) 03:56, 25 March 2008

Sandbox
Please discuss any additions of new colors, removal of microformat classes, or other changes in the default functionality of this template here, before making changes to the live template. The recent changes were malformed and should be sandboxed and discussed before deploying. Frietjes (talk) 20:59, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Etnicity
Added etnicity for the Mother Teresa --Vinie007 04:51, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Your changes to the template broke existing usage. If you would like to add an ethnicity field, please propose it here first, and someone who understands how the template code works can implement if for you (if there are no significant objections).  Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk)  17:24, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
 * There should be citizenship field too, in case such as Mother Teresa its more appropriate to say Indian citizenship rather than Indian nationality. see Nationality_vs_Citizenship - abhi (talk) 06:53, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Problem with the image & filename in this template
I'm currently editing Hu Songshan because Wiki syntax-type text appeared around his picture in the infobox, so I looked up this template to find out the correct syntax. However, I see here the same problem with the example image of Mother Teresa. The template line:

""

creates the expected picture, but with the visible text   after.

In the Hu Songshan infobox, I fixed the problem by removing everything but the filename & its extension:  | image         = Hu Songshan.jpg . This does, however, remove the alt text as well. Should that be a new line as in Template:Infobox person? Would someone more familiar with infoboxes than I am please verify what corrections should be made to this template and then make them? Might this error be replicated in yet other religious biography articles?

Sorry this is all I can do at this time, and thanks! (A supposed "simple edit before going to sleep" over at Hu Songshan took me all the way over here and really wore me out! Heh.)

Thanks again, --Geekdiva (talk) 08:56, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I fixed the example in the documentation. You did the right thing. Frietjes (talk) 15:49, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

family
I have added spouse, parents, and children to match infobox person as per the instructions to [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Holding_cell&oldid=551497212 merge another template with this one]. Frietjes (talk) 15:43, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

RfC announce: Religion in infoboxes
There is an RfC at Template talk:Infobox concerning what What should be allowed in the religion entry in infoboxes. Please join the discussion and help us to arrive at a consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 19:41, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Merger status
Is the proposal to merge Infobox Jain ascetic with this template still open? Or it has been cancelled? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  18:52, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Add parameters
I think that we should add 4-5 parameters of religious career levels just like infobox officeholder. Sub parameters could be date, place, by etc. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  22:16, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't see why not. FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  14:04, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Changing the Infobox
Dear all,

I am new to editing Wiki pages, I would like to know how to edit the "death_date" ? I know how to enter a date but what I am looking for is a way to change "Died" word to "Passing away" (which is more polite) that appears in "Infobox religious biography"

Your help is much appreciated.

Thank you, Sidath — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.157.125.95 (talk) 11:01, 8 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Sidath. You might find the reason for using "died" in WP:EUPHEMISM. Wikipedia tries to avoid using vague terms that could be misinterpreted by people familiar with a different variant of English or readers for whom English is not their first language. --Scott Davis Talk 10:08, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Embed option?
Can this be made to be embedded into infobox person?-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 18:27, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I also support this request to make infobox religious biography embeddable as a module. This seems like it would then be the best way to include lay roles into an an infobox about a person who is notable for other fields such as science or politics. The current proposal at template talk:Infobox person is to use Infobox theological work which doesn't look like it will always fit well. --Scott Davis Talk 08:24, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * See Mildred Barker for an example: She was a religious figure, but most notable as a musician, and was also a manager, trustee, and scholar. I actually embedded TWO infoboxes into the base infobox person.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 15:20, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * This template should be fine if embedded within another infobox like infobox person. Just remember to set yes when used as a module. I agree it would be a good alternative to Infobox theological work as an embedded module of {infobox person} in many cases. --RexxS (talk) 00:09, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * This template should be fine if embedded within another infobox like infobox person. Just remember to set yes when used as a module. I agree it would be a good alternative to Infobox theological work as an embedded module of {infobox person} in many cases. --RexxS (talk) 00:09, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Awards
The tracking category contains a lot of pages with parameter "Awards". Should this be added to this infobox or removed from the pages? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  05:25, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Default name
Please remove default name appearing without using name parameter in case the infobox is used as a module in infobox person. Eg. Yogi Adityanath -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  10:54, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Capankajsmilyo, I fixed it for you. you didn't tell the infobox it was being embedded. Frietjes (talk) 14:42, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot, looking great -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  18:19, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Character
Biography is not same as character. Therefore I propose to create Template:Infobox religious character combining various features of this template and that of Template:Infobox character. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  19:10, 20 March 2017 (UTC) PAGE''' ]]) 18:04, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Capankajsmilyo, where would you use this? infobox character is for fictional characters. Frietjes (talk) 15:23, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
 * For characters from Mahabharata, Ramayana, etc. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  15:37, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
 * We are having the same conversation about Abraham and apparantly another conversation is happening at Isaac, who are legendary characters from the bible. Yes a global solution would be useful in many articles. Pinging folks from those discussions -- User:Alephb, User:StAnselm Jytdog (talk) 00:01, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think I could make a good one, but I'd be happy to see such a template exist. Because some users will entirely or mostly get their impression of the page from the infobox, it would be nice if it had a field that would allow the reader to quickly see where that character stands vis-a-vis the views of modern historians. Say, Buddha or Jesus are generally regarded as having existed, while Methuselah or something like that would be another matter. Alephb (talk) 00:42, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, wow, that would be a serious Pandora's Box. Do you really want debate on every single historic religious biography page between historians and people whose lives has been based in the faith that their religious icons are real? Just like the inclusion of a religion field in Infobox person, while there may be a "right" answer based on weighing reliable sources, the actual existence of religious figures is a subject that is far too complex to easily sum up in an infobox, and should be left to nuanced discussions in the article prose itself. --Ahecht ([[User_talk:Ahecht|'''TALK
 * I can see this as being very tricky and upset a rather delicate balance on Wikipeida., Template:Infobox epic character is already in use for characters from the epic Mahabharata. See Subhadra and Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Infobox_epic_character. Won't this do? StarryGrandma (talk) 01:02, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Looking some of those over, I think that should do the trick. It looks like it allows for including or excluding the term "character" depending on the situation, too, which is good. It doesn't always display the text "epic character" either, so the name shouldn't be a problem. Alephb (talk) 01:08, 12 April 2017 (UTC)


 * am loving the Template:Infobox epic character that is perfect. WP is a scholarly resource and for somebody like Abraham where there is no extra-textual evidence, it should definitely say "character"  Jytdog (talk) 02:39, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Wikidata
The discussion going on at Template talk:Infobox religious text is relevant for this template too. Please give your comments. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  13:24, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

code for |title =

 * The code for titles seems to be taken from the Template:Infobox clergy as if the figures there in have a very formal process of successive titles, like some bishops do now. (See example at Anna the Prophetess: "Prophetess", where it adds the needless "Senior posting" heading and the title is rather small.) I would like to request the code be changed to follow the form at Template:Infobox saint. (See example at Saint Titus: "Bishop and Martyr".)
 * If a the biography has detailed dates and facts then the article would probably already be using Infobox clergy. While it would also be possible to keep both (Template:Infobox saint uses "titles" while Template:Infobox religious biography currently uses "title") I do not see this as needed. tahc chat 16:39, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * So what is your suggestion? Are you suggesting to replace Senior posting with title? -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  17:38, 15 September 2017 (UTC)


 * We can drop all the other parameters in the Senior posting section. All we need is the parameter "title" (or "titles") to generate the bold underheading with the name of the title or titles.
 * To state it again, the best option is to have a bold underheading for the Anna the Prophetess box say "Prophetess", in the same way that the bold underheading for the Saint Titus box says "Bishop and Martyr". To match the style, the main heading (for the name) on all Infobox religious biography templates would need to be yellow, or whatever other color is used in the underheading. If we cannot figure out how do this, then removing the "Senior posting" part of the current "Senior posting/ Title: Prophetess" would still be better than leaving it they way it is. tahc chat 20:39, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * You would need to first build consensus for that. Besides, this template is not for non-historic biographies. Reading the article, it seems more like a character or deity than actual person. You can check Infobox character or Infobox deity. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · [//tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-ec/?user=Capankajsmilyo&project=en.wikipedia.org count])  01:40, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

|nocat_wdimage=yes not supported
I've been adding images to articles listed in Category:No local image but image on Wikidata which include all articles with an infobox that does not have a photo if there is a photo available in Wikidata. In the article Inman E. Page, there are two infoboxes. A photo is already present in the first infobox, so no need for a second photo here. To remove the categorization, the normal method is to add "|nocat_wdimage=yes" to an infobox. However, this does not work with Infobox religious biography. MB 02:36, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
 * , I'm not sure if anyone is watching this template. Maybe you could make this change. Thanks. MB 16:03, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * , I believe we can always disable this category when the box is used as a module? Frietjes (talk) 16:06, 29 September 2017 (UTC)
 * , that page should be fine now, there are two embed/child parameters (embed and child) and we were only using one of them in the disabling of the wdimage check. and nocat_wdimage was already enabled, but just not on the list of valid parameters. Frietjes (talk) 16:09, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Convert to wrapper
I propose to convert this infobox into a wrapper of Infobox person and have prepared Infobox religious biography/sandbox and Infobox religious biography/testcases to assist that decision. Capankajsmilyo (talk) 08:59, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

New parameters
I have added few Officeholder parameters, for smooth merger of Infobox Muslim leader and use by others religions.Capankajsmilyo (talk) 19:45, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Parameter be added?
Infobox Muslim leader has jurisprudence and movement. Should they be added to this template? Capankajsmilyo (talk) 19:45, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * For movement, ✅. For jurisprudence, . It seems to be something more specific in Islam: see Principles of Islamic jurisprudence. &thinsp;&mdash; Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)&thinsp; 00:28, 15 July 2018 (UTC) Sorry that you had to wait so long. &thinsp;&mdash; Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)&thinsp;

Merge discussion
Please see: Template talk:Infobox clergy — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  07:18, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

Preset category
Should we add a religion based category (auto) to sort articles using this infobox? Capankajsmilyo(Talk 05:04, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Param required
dynasty should be available in this template but is not there. would you like to help please? Capankajsmilyo(Talk 02:22, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 21 August 2019
Requesting to add "|Islam=Muslim leader" after "Judaism=Jewish leader" in "header74". Kutyava (talk) 22:54, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done Izno (talk) 21:17, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 21 August 2019
Requesting to remove the "home_town" from under the "header47". Kutyava (talk) 22:46, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. Izno (talk) 21:16, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd say this was done as well. Debresser (talk) 00:37, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Convert to wrapper
This should be converted to wrapper of Infobox person per WP:INFOCOL Capankajsmilyo(Talk 00:25, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 * No. Please stop spamming template talk pages with these long tables. As I have suggested at another talk page, please actually look at the table before you post it with this suggestion. You can see if you take even a cursory look at the above table that there are massive differences in supported parameters between these two infoboxes. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:41, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Move personal details below religious career
This will make it consistent with Infobox officeholder. Capankajsmilyo(Talk 19:53, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Rearrange religious params
Please rearrange params related to religion like religion, sect, school, etc together. Capankajsmilyo(Talk 12:13, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I do not see the absolute necessity of this proposal, although it makes sense. I'd like to see the opinions of other editors on this proposal. Debresser (talk) 12:34, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "rearrange" is not specific enough. Please make your proposed changes to the template's sandbox so that we can see your proposed outcome on the testcases page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:34, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * , will this work? Further, denomination, sect, school and movement are too much of classification. Should some of them be deprecated or merged? Capankajsmilyo(Talk 15:38, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think that "denomination" and "sect" can be useful and are not too specific. Debresser (talk) 15:57, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * What is the difference between denomination and sect? Also, you missed school and movement, any comments on that? Capankajsmilyo(Talk 16:19, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * It looks like lineage should also go with the denomination-related parameters, but without adequate documentation, I am unclear on what is supposed to go in lineage. Is it for family lineage or religion-related lineage? Also, flourished should go under birth/death, since it is related to when the person was alive. If someone could add descriptions for each of the parameters, along with a TemplateData section so that we can get a monthly usage report in June, that would help us understand how, and how often, each parameter is used. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:05, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Wow, denomination and sect are different things. "Denomination" is definitely a wider, more general designation than sect. For example, denomination Hasidic, sect Satmar. Debresser (talk) 21:57, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Deprecate multiple names
monastic_name, pen_name and posthumous_name doesn't seem necessary anymore, these should be deprecated. Capankajsmilyo(Talk 15:35, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I disagree here too. For example, Pope Francis was born Jorge Mario Bergoglio, and this is still something that monks do. Debresser (talk) 16:01, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * We already have birth_name for that. Capankajsmilyo(Talk 16:18, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Without a TemplateData section and its associated monthly report, it is difficult to know how often each of these parameters is used., do you have evidence that these parameters are unnecessary? – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:06, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * birth_name is the opposite of monastic_name. Debresser (talk) 21:58, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Add warning message
Please add a warning message to this template stating, "Please don't use this infobox without religion". Capankajsmilyo(Talk 12:13, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Why do you think it is necessary to state the obvious. Also, where do you suggest this should be placed: on the template documentation? As a red warning if used without this parameter? Debresser (talk) 12:28, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * This seems necessary because a lot of editors add this infobox to articles without mentioning religion. A red warning seems good enough just like if one adds a missing param. Capankajsmilyo(Talk 15:41, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I doubt that claim. Why would someone use Infobox religious biography and leave out the one parameter setting it apart from other biography templates? Debresser (talk) 22:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Add a tracking category, and there will be no doubt. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:17, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Senior Posting
In this message on the Help Desk somebody in PR for Zaid Shakir has asked if the line "Senior posting" can be removed from the infobox. An answer said that it is built into the infobox, which it is; but that is hardly a helpful answer to an enquiry from somebody who does not know Wikipedia. Is there any reason why the heading cannot be suppressed if none of its fields are present? --ColinFine (talk) 22:59, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

political figures
You say it's not for mythological figures, but is it fit public figures where religion is relevant but not their main role, e.g. politicians or artists? I noticed Yogi Adityanath the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh had religion listed, so i tried adding it to Australian Prime Ministers, and i got an error message, "Preview warning: Page using Template:Infobox officeholder with unknown parameter "religion", and i noticed Yogi Adityanath was using this " {{Infobox religious biography|embed=yes " nested in the {{tl|Infobox officeholder}} template. Irtapil (talk) 09:27, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Template adds Category:No local image but image on Wikidata when used embedded
This template appears to be adding the "no local image" category even when it's used as an embed. It has the same code to exclude Wikidata image when embedded as everything else, and I wasn't able to figure out why it isn't working correctly. An example occurs on the page Charles Octavius Boothe. – BMacZero (🗩) 16:18, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * And another: David Abner Jr. – BMacZero (🗩) 16:19, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

One parameter problem
"ethnicity" not working, see here. Thanks -- ওহিদ 💬 &#124; 📝 01:47, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * It is not a valid parameter. It is not permitted in infoboxes. Do you see it in the documentation? – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:12, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Propose removing duplicate set of other names
Worldbruce (talk) 17:23, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Specific lines to be removed:
 * A presumably inadvertent consequence of this edit to merge Infobox Muslim leader here was to duplicate the list of other names. It now appears near the top of the infobox (immediately below title), and again later (immediately before dharma names, monastic name, pen name, and posthumous name).
 * As of January 2018, before it was merged here, Template:Infobox Muslim leader displayed other names fairly deep in the infobox, between resting place and nationality (see ) At that time, this template displayed other names immediately before dharma names, monastic name, pen name, and posthumous name. There was no mention in the Tfd that triggered the merger of making other names significantly more prominent by displaying them near the top of the infobox (let alone displaying them twice).
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please make your requested changes to the template's sandbox first; see WP:TESTCASES. It is not clear what outcome is being requested here. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:33, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Suggested change
Replace the production template with this version of the sandbox. The difference is this.

Desired outcome
The desired outcome is that Template:Infobox religious biography/testcases should display "Other names" in the infobox only once, between "Known for" and "Dharma names". It should not also list "Other names" between "Title" and "Personal".

Reason for the change
A presumably inadvertent consequence of ' 15 November 2018‎ edit to merge Infobox Muslim leader into this template was that the list of other names was duplicated. It now appears near the top of the infobox (immediately below "Title"), and again later (immediately before "Dharma names"). Before it was merged here, Template:Infobox Muslim leader displayed "Other names" deep in the infobox, between "Resting place" and "Nationality" (see ). At that time, this template displayed "Other names" immediately before "Dharma names". There was no mention in the Tfd that triggered the merger of making "Other names" significantly more prominent by displaying them twice or near the top of the infobox. Worldbruce (talk) 00:28, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅.  P.I. Ellsworth &numsp;- ed.  put'r there 01:03, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Erroneous template description when searching
Hello everyone,

While using the visual editor and searching for this template, I saw its description, which reads:

"Creates an infobox for a fictional character of any type."

Given the often derogatory comparison between religion and fiction, this reads like vandalism.

I propose that the description be changed to a more appropriate summary, though I do not know how to do this.

Thank you,

The Fonz  (talk)  01:03, 24 July 2022 (UTC)


 * @Evedawn99, that was probably something left over when the Template Data was copied in from Infobox character. I have replaced it with the actual template description. Thanks for noticing. StarryGrandma (talk) 01:57, 24 July 2022 (UTC)