Template talk:Infobox royalty/Archive 3

Reign
Should the "reign" parameter be center-aligned like assumed office/in office from Infobox officeholder? There is no discussion about this before. Hddty. (talk) 06:53, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I see no advantage in spreading it out over two lines rather than one. DrKay (talk) 16:05, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Well in current format there are still two lines. Hddty. (talk) 05:12, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I see only one. DrKay (talk) 12:57, 2 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Most oftenly there are two lines for former monarch (except if the article use nowrap like in George V). Also there is no need to write "present" to the current monarch. Hddty. (talk) 13:53, 3 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I concur. This is a good idea. Unless short syllable months are used, this parameter often causes some funky wrapping issues that need to be negated through what ultimately amounts to unnecessary nowrapping or the use of non-breaking spaces. Center-aligning the reign parameter would look better and improve readability. You'll notice my arbitrary example on the right. Jay D. Easy (talk) 06:22, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

10 reigns
Dear editors. The Romanian hospodar of Constantine Mavrocordatos reigned 10 times in the Moldavian and Wallachian Principals between 1730 and 1769. I entered these dates in the infobox, but the last tenth reign does not appear. What could be the reason for this?:


 * succession10       =Prince of Moldavia
 * reign10            =29 June – 23 November 1769
 * predecessor10      =Grigore Callimachi
 * successor10        =Grigore III Ghica

Only 9 reign periods appear? For example, if someone has held 15 important positions during their long life, can only some of them be shown? 12akd (talk) 11:59, 2 October 2019 (UTC)


 * It's because you've broken the code. The code has a limit of 9 successions. It's just programmed that way, unfortunately. I suppose nobody ever thought that somebody could reign 10 times. Without altering the facts, is there a way around this? Did Constantine have de facto or de jure rule during one of the periods that you mark as a gap? If so, you could probably show it as continuous with a disputed or alongside notation. Since the code is locked from editing, you'd need an admin to actually add a level 10 field. – Whaleyland ( Talk •  Contributions ) 00:28, 4 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Let's just add another field. Please sync with to add support for 10 reigns. Tested in the all param testcase. --Trialpears (talk) 01:04, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you very much for dealing with the problem. I believe that even if he was not among the kings / princes - but in other positions (bishops, ministers) he held 10, but often up to 20 important positions throughout his life. Rulers do not remember more than ten rulings at first, but that does not mean that they never existed. (I'll think about it.) If ministers / politicians AND bishops / ecclesiastical dignitaries have a separate info box - then maybe over 10 would be worth expanding. 12akd (talk) 07:55, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I think nine is already ridiculous. I think we should be using Template:Infobox officeholder for these types of people not this one. Celia Homeford (talk) 08:32, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done However, whether infobox officeholder is more suitable is a question for that article's talk page. Sceptre (talk) 18:23, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help. If I can find a ruler / governor for more time, I'll write here. 12akd (talk) 05:39, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

Automatic short descriptions
I've been investigating the possibility of adding automatic short descriptions to this infobox and have created a version in the sandbox that does just this using the succession header. If you wish to see the feature in action replace Infobox royalty with Infobox royalty/sandbox and the generated short description will be displayed in plaintext at the top of the article for more convenient testing. If there already is a local short description for the article (not on wikidata) or an editor adds one in the future it will override the automatic one. Any opinions on this? Your input is highly appreciated, especially since I'm not too familiar with the conventions used in articles about royalty. If you want to see some test cases just ask! --Trialpears (talk) 21:00, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I've now implemented it since there were no objections for well over a week. I've done further tests of about 30 more articles where the automatic short description was on par or better than the wikidata description and no inappropriate additions. Please tell me if you have any concerns and I will make sure they're addressed. --Trialpears (talk) 10:09, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Issue?
Took me a while to realise that "Issue" actually means "Children" (at least I think it does?). Would there be any opposition if I rename it to just "Children", a term that we mere plebeians are more familiar with? Laurent (talk) 13:40, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Convert to wrapper
This should be converted to wrapper of Infobox person per WP:INFOCOL Capankajsmilyo(Talk 00:13, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Please stop this disruptive spamming. Just take a look at the table above. There are major differences in the parameters supported by each template. Also, as I have already told you at one of the far too many pages on which you have spammed tables like this, your parameter list for Infobox person is incorrect. 1, for example, is not supported by Infobox person. The documentation page for the tool you are using has a caveat explaining that you need to validate its output. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:46, 25 March 2020 (UTC)

Infobox advisory detached from infobox
Per https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T248805 can I suggest that the advisory message and infobox are wrapped in an element  to make sure that the advisory message is connected to the template rather than displaying poorly on mobile. cc User:Danbloch Jdlrobson (talk) 16:37, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

Jdlrobson (talk) 05:09, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Hiding the entire TfD tag on mobile does not seem to me to be a non-controversial change that should have been performed only 9 hours after a post on an unrelated template's talk page, especially given that it was declined in October 2019. * Pppery * it has begun... 16:01, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Well, it's been hidden since December 2018 for other variants https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/874733460?diffmode=source

The nomobile class is not great but ive suggested another alternative here. Dropping the float would also be acceptable or at least using TemplateStyles to restrict that style to Vector. I don't know the template well enough to advise what the best solution is here.

On the other hand the current presentation on mobile is extremely confusing and sometimes preventing content from being read on mobile (Minerva skin) and most of our readers are there. Fixing that in any way possible seems pretty urgent and non controversial to me. Jdlrobson (talk) 02:35, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
 * There have been numerous past proposals to restrict the visibility of the TfD tag to certain classes of editors, such as Village pump (proposals)/Archive 139, all of which failed to gain consensus. I viewed your edit as analagous to those. * Pppery * it has begun... 04:08, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
 * See also Template talk:Tfm, where the edits you performed were declined with "noy done, please get consensus first. * Pppery * it has begun... 01:26, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I think I speak for 99.99 percent of Wikipedia users when I say that I don't care about template merges and if I did I'd have the templates on my watchlist. Dan Bloch (talk) 02:56, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
 * That may be, but there's still been a lack of consensus to hide the TfD tag from any group of users, and the above edit was therefore a misuse of template editor privleges to make an underdiscussed controversial edit. * Pppery * it has begun... 14:40, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

Reign parameter
Should the "reign" parameter be center-aligned like assumed office/in office from Infobox officeholder? (see proposed example on the right and bad wrapping from the current format)

Notified who participated in the last discussion. Hddty (talk) 06:32, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Yes: obvious merit. GPinkerton (talk) 04:07, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Proposed changes
What do you think about the following change?

Arya.Go (talk) 17:54, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't understand it. Why is the code so heavy on embedding other infoboxes and why are there 10 consort parameters? It seems unnecessarily complex for a relatively simple change from left alignment to center alignment. DrKay (talk) 07:41, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Not an improvement. Embedding multiple infoboxes, including a subtemplate, inside this infobox, makes it much more difficult to troubleshoot and modify. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:59, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Add new parameter
Hi, I added some new parameters to infobox royalty / sandbox ‌ Please apply it to infobox royalty Arya.Go (talk) 18:37, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 * No. You were told explicitly above that using transclusions of infobox child is inappropriate. It is too code heavy and increases transclusion count through nested transclusions, which can lead to template limit problems. DrKay (talk) 20:20, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

Religion
I actually think religion is a lot more important for royalty than basically any other groups of people. Many wars have been fought over the religious affiliations of royalty and in many countries the monarch is/was also the head of the church. I can't see any other group of people where it's this relevant and not usually in the first sentence of the lead as with religious leaders. --Trialpears (talk) 00:41, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note. I have restored the religion parameter. Someone else suggested that it should be restored as well. It might be worth adding a note to the documentation explaining that this infobox is one of a few "person" infoboxes that is an exception to the RFC. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:30, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Strongly agree with this. Religion is for example very important in the history of the Middle East, where it ranged from Christianity to Islam, Zoroastrianism and what not. Good to know what religion a specific monarch believed in, since it could vary quite a lot. --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:46, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Parameter suggestion (Oriental seals)
The infobox currently has a parameter for "Signature" which is great, but in Chinese history and Chinese cultural countries (Japan, Korea, Manchuria, the Ryukyu islands, and Vietnam) many royals had a personal seal that they would mark documents or a dynastic seal that would change every few generations, for example every Emperor of the Nguyễn Dynasty had separate personal seals for documents independent of the dynastic seal.

In Chinese cultural countries these seals basically fulfilled the same function as signatures so it would be handy to add them to Vietnamese royal and imperial infoboxes, as often Vietnamese historic documents and decrees are identified through these seals. --Donald Trung (talk) 11:44, 24 February 2021 (UTC)


 * There are already parameters for that. DrKay (talk) 12:04, 24 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I tried adding this to Bảo Đại:


 * signature_alt  = Seal of Bảo Đại (1949-1954).jpg
 * signature_type  = Seal of Bảo Đại as the Chief of State of Vietnam (used between 1949 and 1954).

But then it either only displays his signature or his seal, his father also had both a seal and a signature, so this field is only useful for Oriental royalty before signatures were used, in modern Japan personal seals are still commonly used. --Donald Trung (talk) 12:07, 24 February 2021 (UTC)


 * , from what I can tell in modern Japan personal seals are used by everyone except the imperial family. --Donald Trung (talk) 12:15, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Let me try it by actually showcasing the parameters as I never saved the draft.

I don't want to replace "File:BaoDaiSignature.svg", I simply want to add "File:Seal of Bảo Đại (1949-1954).jpg", this is only possible like this:

But then I no longer have the siggy (signature). --Donald Trung (talk) 13:05, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'd prefer it to be one or the other. Infoboxes are supposed to be simple and succinct. Something with a lengthy caption or additional images should be placed in the article as a thumbnail instead of in the infobox. There's space for example in the honors section, though ideally the seal should be next to the text about the early 1950s. DrKay (talk) 13:08, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Request to add a parameter
Hello, I have put some important parameters that are needed in the Infobox royalty on the training page of the Template:Infobox royalty/sandbox. add after checking. Parsbod (talk) 00:28, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * If you are talking about the military parameters, see this template's documentation for an explanation of how to embed Infobox military person. For an example of how it is done in a real article, see Charles, Prince of Wales. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:00, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I got it. I just think we should replace the parameter must use this parameter 👇 like the Infobox officeholder_Parsbod (talk) 01:17, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Reign
I suggest that the reign parameter, like the term_start and term_end parameters in the infobox officeholder, be in the middle. I did this in the infobox royalty / sandbox. Parsbod (talk) 19:07, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it looks worse than the status quo. If you think there is a test case that makes it look better, please add it to the testcases page. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:42, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Coronation
We ought to add another country for cor-type with ksa. Saudi Arabia does not have coronations. Rather when a new king comes to the throne, a bay'ah is held, a ceremony where the subjects pledge alleigance to the king. Векочел (talk) 23:54, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
 * That can be done with the existing parameter . Celia Homeford (talk) 09:04, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Auto SD glitch
I found that Yusuf Ali Kenadid has 1st Sultan of the Sultanate of Hobyo, and the auto-generated SD was 1St Sultan... (note the capital S). I've add a SD to this article, but there may be others. , is this related to the auto-cap of the first letter fix? MB 06:44, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * That's a bit of GIGO per MOS:1ST, but I have adjusted the auto SD to try to capitalize the first character, whether it is a letter or not. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:36, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Need for multiple "era name" fields
Any chance of getting "era name 2", "era name 3" paired with "era dates 2", "era dates 3" &c. added to the template? A number of Chinese emperors have multiple eras (e.g. Emperor Xuan of Han, Emperor Gaozong of Song) and the only way to deal with them now is to put all info in the "era dates" field. Thanks. —  AjaxSmack 17:15, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Partner
Could we add partner for notable, unmarried partners? Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk 22:55, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 9 August 2022
Could you include an option to insert both a personal and kingdom coats of arms images please. Titus Gold (talk) 12:35, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't agree with this suggestion. We generally avoid addition of flags or coats of arms as described at Manual of Style/Icons. Please get consensus for this addition before using the protected edit template. Celia Homeford (talk) 13:22, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input. As far as I can see, Manual of Style/Icons simply suggests that personal icons should not be used instead of national ones. It does not say that arms cannot be used. Many pages of royal individuals have images of arms or insignia on them.
 * In medieval periods in particular, royals had personal coat of arms which would be apt for an infobox. An option could be for personal coat of arms only, although i would prefer being able to include both the personal and family coat of arms. Titus Gold (talk) 20:20, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Royal cypher
It's in the news, but a royal cypher is a symbol of identification of the monarch. Might this be something we want to add as an option to the infobox? - Pro hib it O ni o ns (T) 21:18, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
 * No. For the same reasons I gave in the section immediately above this one. Celia Homeford (talk) 07:54, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Cyphers are much more commonly used than personal coats of arms, at least in the case of the UK monarch, adorning buildings, letters, pillar boxes, government notices, etc. During the funeral of the Queen, the EIIR cypher was a frequent sight, understood in a way the coat of arms would not have been. It's also easily identifiable in a low-resolution image (ie, an infobox) in a way that a coat of arms is not - or for that matter, a signature, which IS included. Hence my question. - Pro hib it O ni o ns (T) 08:38, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Royals with non-royal political offices
Could we possibly add the option to add political positions that a royal holds (ministerial, presidential, etc.). The UAE is a federation of monarchies, so some politicians in the UAE federal government, including the president and vice president are members of royal families. The president of the UAE (Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan) also rules the Emirate of Abu Dhabi which is an absloute monarchy.

Some fields that I feel would be helpful to add to the this template come from Template:Infobox officeholder, I tried adding the fields using plug ins but the plugged in office headers are grey unlike the reign headers in the the royalty infobox. Current workaround instead of the fields in the template.


 * native_name       =


 * native_name_lang  =


 * honorific_prefix  =


 * office            =


 * status            =


 * term_start        =


 * term_end          =


 * subterm           =


 * suboffice         =


 * alongside         =




 * allegiance     =


 * branch         =


 * serviceyears   =


 * rank           =


 * unit           =


 * commands       =


 * battles        =  Vyvagaba (talk) 16:12, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The infobox already has the function. At Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, the political office is in the infobox. DrKay (talk) 17:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for your reply. The infobox treats political positions exactly like a royal position; unlike other political office holders, the infobox does't show "Incumbant" when in the person is in office, and doesn't give the option to add a status under the office (Acting), also the infobox has no option to add a native name and military credentials. Vyvagaba (talk) 17:46, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * see Napoleon, which incorporates Infobox officeholder/office to achieve what you're describing. &#8209;&#8209;Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 05:29, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Great, thank you so much! Vyvagaba (talk) 11:26, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 27 April 2023
Hi! Currently, in data77 both the family_name and clan_name parameters (or fields or display names or whatever) display as text wikilinked to the article Chinese surname. I suspect this is because of an article split and remerge last year.family_name should be changed to wikilink to Chinese surname clan_name should be changed to wikilink to Chinese surname. Some subjects bore both kinds of surname (arbitrary example: Xiong Yong), and the anchors disambiguate in a way the translated terms don't. Folly Mox (talk) 23:06, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. This very well may be on purpose. -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 23:11, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * where can I request a database query that lists which articles have one but not both of these parameters defined? Seeing the effects on that class of article would be my first step in a discussion about disambiguating the wikilinks. Folly Mox (talk) 23:32, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No, I don't work with data reports, but if I had to find out I'd ask at the Help Desk.  -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 23:37, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You should be able to use the monthly report generated by the TemplateData section of the documentation, but it appears that the TemplateData section has some invalid code in it: "family_name", "clan_name", and "given_name" are listed as aliases of "full name", which is not correct. If that apparent error is corrected before 1 May (which can be done by anyone, since the TemplateData code is not protected), next month's report will run about a week later and should contain links to lists of each article using those parameters. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:59, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Hence the consensus call, wait for someone to chime in that knows templates and particularly, this one.  -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 00:06, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Make "Issue" a link
I didn't know what "Issue" meant because this word isn't used often in this sense in common language. It should be a link but I'm not allowed to edit. Akeosnhaoe (talk) 01:09, 23 May 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ &#8209;&#8209;Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 14:10, 23 May 2023 (UTC)