Template talk:Jacobitism

Highland Clearances and the potato famine as a consequence
I question the inclusion of the Highland Clearances as a consequence of Jacobitism. It is an outmoded idea to think that the clearances were caused by the various Jacobite rebellions. Keeping this subject in the template only serves to reinforce a common misconception - which is not the purpose of Wikipedia. The same criticism could apply to the potato famine. How on earth does the arrival of potato blight have anything to do with a politically motivated rebellion? The reliance of crofting communities on the potato is another part of the subject - but any link between that and Jacobitism is so massively tenuous that it surely does not warrant inclusion. References to support the above include:
 * Devine, T M (1994). Clanship to Crofters' War: The social transformation of the Scottish Highlands (2013 ed.). Manchester University Press. ISBN 978-0-7190-9076-9.
 * Devine, T M (2018). The Scottish Clearances: A History of the Dispossessed, 1600-1900. London: Allen Lane. ISBN 978-0241304105
 * Macinnes, Allan I. (1996). Clanship, Commerce and the House of Stewart, 1603-1788. East Linton: Tuckwell Press. ISBN 1 898410 43 7
 * Richards, Eric, The Highland Clearances, Birlinn Books, 2000.

ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 08:09, 15 October 2018 (UTC)


 * I agree that the potato famine can't have been caused as a direct consequence of the Jacobite risings. However, the clearances are possibly more closely connected. The clearances had been going on before and during the risings when people left for the New World. However, this was certainly increased after the Jacobite rising of 1745. That said the clearances of the 19th century could barely be linked directly to the 45. So I am neutral on whether this should be included in the template.QuintusPetillius (talk) 09:12, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I think there's more irrelevance here. Events in the 21st century were linked, even though they have no bearing on Jacobitism. Celia Homeford (talk) 10:03, 15 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The link that some people made in the past between (especially) the '45 and the Highland Clearances is that government oppression and legislation started the social changes in Scottish clans that caused landowners (clan leaders) to seek to make more money from their lands. It is now clear that these changes were caused by (a) the Statutes of Iona and (b) the opening of commercial contacts for the Highlands. The thinking of Tom Devine is that any apparent acceleration of the collapse of clanship after the '45 was simply because the slow process of change since the Statutes of Iona had been paused whilst the military aspects of clans temporarily regained some importance.
 * One complication is that there is no generally accepted definition of the Highland Clearances. For some people, it includes those who chose to leave without any encouragement to do so by their landlord. Hence remarks about people leaving for the New World might have some relevance - but the vast majority of Highland emigrants were economic migrants, certainly up to the second phase of the clearances. A more strict definition of the clearances is that it included only those people evicted. A confusing factor is that more Highlanders emigrated after the clearances had ceased. ThoughtIdRetired (talk) 13:17, 15 October 2018 (UTC)