Template talk:Multiple issues/Archive 8

Cleanup-restructure
editprotected

There is an errow in the following; let's review:

 (see source and scroll down until you found an above preview)

Notice that " ''' " should be added before reorganization because a result ended up like this:

--Gh87 (talk) 10:36, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done, thanks. Amalthea  11:54, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Second request for cleanup-link rot
This is a pretty important tag, and too many articles do not use the proper tools available for citing sources. -- Taerkast UA ( Talk ) 12:34, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This is supposed to be in the external links section not on the top of the article. -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:20, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It doesn't say that on the template page though, and I still believe it should be added, but it doesn't really matter. -- Taerkast UA ( Talk ) 17:56, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I just wonder: Why there is no bot fixing this problem every month? It shouldn't be that difficult. Should we add a bot request? -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:00, 29 August 2009 (UTC)


 * It could be possible. -- Taerkast UA ( Talk ) 18:03, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Plot wording update
The wording of the Plot template was changed not to long ago. The changes should be reflected on this template. The message for plot in this template should be changed to:

 It contains a plot summary that may be too long or overly detailed.

-kollision (talk) 21:58, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Magioladitis (talk) 22:33, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Request

 * I propose offtopic be added to the template. THE AMERICAN METROSEXUAL 18:50, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * offtopic is about a problem with a section not the whole article. Putting that message on the top of the article wouldn't be helpful. Garion96 (talk) 18:57, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Request: toomanyphotos
Can we have support for toomanyphotos? TJRC (talk) 22:37, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * This template has right now at most 20 tranclusions. My suggestion to these cases is to avoid adding it. We don't want articleissues to be the template of everything. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:16, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Request: Citations broken
I'd like to see support for citations broken. The options available now describe citations that are missing, unclear, or incorrectly used, but none describe citations that were valid but now are not. I've encountered many multiple-issue articles with citations pointing to pages that have moved or are completely gone. Any thoughts from other editors? --Drm310 (talk) 18:44, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Discussion link and documentation
I really think that discuss should be added to this template, similar to most other cleanup etc. templates, so that we can specify a section on the talk page if there's one that corresponds to all these problems! Also, would anyone object if I removed the little "how to add more issues" section from the documentation, and the references to it? It's pointless given that only admins can edit the template! — Skittleys (talk) 14:12, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds like it might be a good idea, but please get consensus before placing the editprotected!
 * No, it's not pointless. Admins need documentation as well.
 * &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:07, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Why is consensus required before an edit that has absolutely no impact on the template as it currently stands, especially since (a) consensus has never been requested to add support for other tags, and (b) the proposal is uncontroversial because it doesn't affect anything if you don't use it? The box at the top of this page says "Substantial changes should be proposed here, and made by administrators if the proposal is uncontroversial, or has been discussed and is supported by consensus." (emphasis mine) This is a request for a feature that's built into the majority of these tags. I would think this is a great example of something where consensus can be assumed...... I do see your point about the documentation though. — Skittleys (talk) 16:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you update the sandbox or explicitly list the edit needed? Just sticking discuss isn't going to add functionality I suspect. Skomorokh,  barbarian  18:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I do not think we need a "discuss" parameter. Most maintenance templates don't have it, I think. And if they do, it is almost never used, that I am sure about. And it is actually pretty simple: "prune" means prune, "unreferenced" means unreferenced, etc. No need to discuss every small thing. Debresser (talk) 16:06, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Protected edit: missing bullet
I believe that this template has a slight error. The entry for synthesis is not bulleted, unlike the others.

Should be:

Per the protection policy, I'm proposing this here. If another admin wants to make the change, feel free. Else, I'll do it myself if there are no objections. Oren0 (talk) 02:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. I took the liberty. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Template:All plot
editprotected Template:All plot should be included in Article issues. The template conforms to policy and addresses a distinct issue, different from Template:Plot (a corresponding move request for Plot to a more specific template name is currently pending). --84.44.248.66 (talk) 15:17, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Not a widely used or accepted template. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 15:22, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is, to both. The number of transclusions is simply due to the fact that Plot's wording was recently changed to address a different issue. Almost all transclusions of Template:Plot date back to before the change of that template's wording. That's also why I requested the name change for Plot. Following that move, Plot will be kept as a redirect to the new and specific template name until all of the current transclusions have been disambiguated between the two very distinct templates. --84.44.248.66 (talk) 15:30, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I am thus restoring the protected edit request. It is really an entirely uncontroversial request. --84.44.248.66 (talk) 15:34, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * It is not an uncontroversial request so it has been removed. Edit protected is for a non-controversial request that has consensus. This does not. I have also opposed your move request. The number of transclusions has nothing to do with the wording change, and it is rather silly to even have two templates. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 15:36, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Then please propose a rewording at the template talk page. The current wordings of the two templates address clearly distinct issues and the current wordings appear to have consensus. --84.44.248.66 (talk) 15:53, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I've already started a discussion to merge All plot to Plot. The current wordings really do not address different issues at all, just one uses longer wording. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 16:02, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The current wording of Plot appears to have a fairly strong consensus. Unless and until it emerges that there is in fact consensus to change its wording, All plot does indeed address a completely distinct issue. --84.44.248.66 (talk) 16:08, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, I think it would be appropriate to add allplot. Шизомби (Sz) (talk) 06:47, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

"roughtranslation" parameter does nothing
The parameter "roughtranslation" produces a message box with no explanation. Either the item needs to be removed from the documentation, or "roughtranslation" needs to be defined in the template code. &mdash;QuicksilverT @ 09:31, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I removed it from the documentation. -- Magioladitis (talk) 01:29, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Adding Local template
Could the cleanup template local be added? --papageno (talk) 19:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Only 83 transclusions! -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:11, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

importance parameter
The parameter  seems to be duplicate of. Both add articles to Category:Articles with topics of unclear notability, both have similar messages and the table lists, that servers completely different purpose, as  's stand-alone template. I think this parameter should be removed. Svick (talk) 15:14, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree but we have first to check if any articles that transclude Article issues use "importance" and replace it with "notable" -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:26, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course, I think the easiest way to do this is to add  (or some less awkward category name) to  's . Svick (talk) 15:41, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Could some admin introduce the change mentioned in the last post above? Thanks. Svick (talk) 16:54, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Would it not be simpler just to get the template to treat importance the same as notability? &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:19, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, you're right, that would be better. Svick (talk) 17:43, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Does my change look okay? &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:56, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * We want to discourage people to use importance, don't we? Otherwise there ll be many confusions of what importance does. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:35, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, if you're happy to do the work in replacing these, I can add the tracking category? &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, please. I ll do the replacements afterward. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Category:Uses of article issues template with deprecated parameters. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:00, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Great. You don't really need to create the category. This will do the job. We just to wait some days for this category to be triggered. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:05, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I fixed/removed 25 tags today. I am really disappointed of the quality if the tags. I had to fix more than just the importance one. An article with more than 10 references was tagged as unreferenced for 2 years. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:24, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Another 18 today. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:31, 6 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Though the parameter name was confusing, the texts generated were, in my opinion, quite clear: one parameter (notability) was for articles of dubious notability and the other (importance) was for articles with no claim to notability. The latter is relevant to the criteria for speedy deletion, so the distinction may be important.--Boson (talk) 10:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * So what do think we should do? -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I would prefer a name change to something like "Notability-unclaimed" and a separate category but, on reflection, I'm not that worried.--Boson (talk) 17:08, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * We went through this before with Template:importance which used to produce a similar message. In the end nobody could come up with an alternative wording so it was redirected to Template:notability. Now the importance template is used for something else entirely. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. I was surprised when I couldn't find a corresponding single template. Forget I said anything. --Boson (talk) 20:07, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Did 200 replacements today (and 5 yesterday). -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:47, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

No new entries since 8 February. We can remove the tracking category. Can someone do it? -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:18, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1 entry from 8 February to 30 November which was added in April. Fixed it. -- Magioladitis (talk) 17:14, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

A minor change in wording
I think the default "This article or section" has to become "This article" and leave it optional to change to anything else. This is common practise nowadays. This will make "article=y" useless. Moreover, more tags are referring to the whole article anyway. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:10, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree. Debresser (talk) 10:47, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Done. Code needs further simplification. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:56, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Passive voice
While passive voice has its uses, very often I see it used to avoid being specific when details are unknown. I propose adding a passivevoice parameter to the tag for those cases when passive voice is improperly used or overused. Joja lozzo  21:56, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Better create a template for that first. Article issues mainly summarises other templates. --Magioladitis (talk) 22:52, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Joja  lozzo  23:43, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice. Let's see how people while respond. No rush to add it in Article issues. We don't add templates with few transclusions. Otherwise, we should add all cleanup templates. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:55, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Um... This discussion should be seen by all of you... --Jubilee♫ clipman  10:13, 25 February 2010 (UTC)


 * It is on Tfd. I have worked on it a little and created the beginning of a documentation page. Debresser (talk) 11:17, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Collapsible
I think the template should be collapsible, because if there are many article issues then it's too big. Armbrust Talk  Contribs  12:41, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Banners should be visible so editors come and fix them. It's the same reason we put them in the article and not in its talk page. --Magioladitis (talk) 13:20, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Aervanath (talk) 12:03, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Template:Article issues → template:multiple issues — This is a redirect to the current title, but is a more appropriate name for the template. Firstly, it makes the purpose of the template clearer (that it consolidates multiple cleanup tags), and secondly it better fits the situation where only one section of the article is affected. Lastly, it avoids the tautology whereby most instances of the template are called with. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 09:58, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I removed the tag because I don't see any discussion on the subject that formed a consensus. Now on the subject: We disactivated article=yes and This paramater can now removed from the templates. On the actual title I am neutral. I just prefer Article issues because I am used to it. I am open to good arguments. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:16, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Erm, what are you doing? The RM tag is not an editprotected request, it's the process by which the RM is listed. It stays in place until the discussion has been concluded like an RfC tag. Fancy putting it back? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 10:24, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Erm, sorry. Got confused. It's back. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Support. Seems a more intuitive name, especially regarding sections. Will the "M" in "multiple" need to be capitalised? – Liveste (talk • edits) 03:17, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * WP's MediaWiki installation makes no distinction: Multiple issues and multiple issues are one and and the same. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:32, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Weakly opposed because I see possibilities in the future that this template could become a meta template for all article issues. Calling this template with one parameter could produce the same output as the individual template. This would ensure that the two different systems produced consistent messages. (Often when a template is updated, this one continues to use the previous wording.) &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:43, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Isn't that what ambox does already? Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:32, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * No ambox just provides the boxes, let me explain more clearly what I have in mind. I am thinking that a template (possibly this template) could be used to store all of the messages and images used by the maintenance templates. When called with one argument, (e.g. it would have exactly the same appearance as the current notability. But when called with multiple arguments (e.g. ) it would automatically adjust to the compact display. The advantages would be that the wording of the messages could be kept centralised (easier to maintain) and it would be easier to keep the formatting of the maintenance templates consistent. It could also provide a cleaner way to add the dated maintenance categories currently dealt with by DMCA. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:09, 13 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Support. I've always been confused as to why this template would be named Article issues anyway. Moving this to "Multiple issues" to me seems similar to moving Template:Fact to Template:Citation needed.


 * Neutral As I explained the article was now removed. The template mainly focuses on the article and not on specific sections. I haven't encountered it in specific sections and I can tell, from my experience, than if we find it in a section it will probably be incorrectly or outdated. Moreover, we just move from Articleissues to Article issues. On the other hand, I understand the rationale given above. -- Magioladitis 10:44, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Unreliable Sources
Why is there no parameter for unreliable sources? I guess it is (sort of) covered by primarysources.Stephen (talk) 06:12, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe, because they are less than 150 transclusions? -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:35, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is any inherent reason why maintenance templates with relatively few transclusions can not be supported by this template. Of course, there should be broad consensus that a template is useful and appropriate. But apart from that, the number of uses may not be so important. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:55, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that Unreliablesources should be included. Erpert (let's talk about it) 18:19, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Every transclusion of this template carries overhead from every parameter. There are are currently 466 dated maintenance templates on my list, and a fair few undated ones too, plus several thousand redirects, alternative capitalisations and so forth. At some point the overhead does become significant and we would have to redesign the template. Rich Farmbrough, 07:46, 9 April 2010 (UTC).

I second Rich on that. This template was not designed to cover every single template out there. We can still use separate templates to cover uncommon/rare issues. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:31, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Uncategorized
I think we need to add uncategorized as an issue for this template. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 15:30, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I would support this, but it has been discussed multiple times in the past so it would probably be worth reviewing the past discussions. The main issue seems to be that uncat is placed at the bottom of an article not the top. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:27, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Redirect showing
Since the template's been moved without any actual edits to its self-referential source code, there's a rather ugly "1. REDIRECT Template:Multiple issues/message" showing inside the template everywhere it's transcluded. Can we get the template fixed to eliminate this? I think it requires a search/replace for "Article issues/message" --> "Multiple issues/message". --Darkwind (talk) 12:17, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:22, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

expand is nominated for deletion...
...which could affect this template. See Templates_for_discussion/Log/2010_April_17. GregorB (talk) 10:07, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

When moving
These Ambox based templates, please check the internal comments, diagnostic messages and categories, subpage references as well as the documentation. (I'm sure I am the worst offender.) Rich Farmbrough, 11:13, 1 May 2010 (UTC).

IMDB templates
Any chance of adding the two IMDB-specific BLP templates - BLP IMDB-only refimprove and BLP IMDB refimprove to this template? I've boldly added them to the sandbox, but I'm not sure if the categorization is working correctly. I do see the text in the test cases page, but I'm unsure of how to test the categories. --Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 05:04, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * These templates are brandy new. Were they created after consensus? Do you have a related discussion about them? -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:06, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * There was discussion here, after which I created them. Soon after, they were nominated for deletion here, which closed with the nominator withdrawing the nomination. Support was 100% keep. Certainly I'm willing to get wider consensus for these if needed.  --Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 07:30, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * The sandbox version does seem to be getting the categories right, as shown for a test of "BLP IMDB-only refimprove" in this version of Mark Fite article. --doncram (talk) 13:35, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * The templates are designed not to be judgmental about the use of IMDB, but just to describe factually that an article is wholly or largely sourced to IMDB. IMDB is a source that has been subject of lots of previous debate and a failed proposal, because some of it is reliably entered by IMDB staff but at least some IMDB information is entered wikipedia-style by anyone.  I have been applying it in place of "BLP unsourced" for articles that have IMDB as a source.  There are many hundreds of articles clearly created only from IMDB which have gotten confusing "BLP unsourced" tag.  Correcting the tag to be more descriptive gives readers and editors a better clue why an article is being tagged as needing reference improvement (when it clearly has a reference), and it allows editors who wish for better-than-IMDB-attribution to focus on adding other sources.  The tags have been applied in more than 1,000 articles, mostly by me but also by User:Shaun in Montreal and User:Lvklock.  Our usage has received some initial questioning when encountered by some, but then been supported.  For example, one user in the anti-IMDB camp inquired at User talk:Doncram but we talked it out at User talk:Off2riorob.  I think there is adequate consensus to make this change to the Multiple Issues template.


 * Updating the Multiple Issues template is now somewhat urgent, as there are several hundred articles where I anticipated that "BLP IMDB refimprove=date" or "BLP IMDB-only refimprove=date" were valid fields within Multiple issues template, and i replaced "BLP unsourced" for those. Currently those articles appear as if all their referencing issues were removed, because the new labels and categories are not recognized.  There are currently 268 and 660 articles in Category:Articles sourced only by IMDB and Category:Articles sourced by IMDB.  These numbers which will increase by a few hundred if/when this update to Multiple Issues template goes through.  Please just make the change! :) --doncram (talk) 13:35, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

As the one who added the editprotected template, let me revise my earlier statements by saying that the sandbox template is working for the test cases, and also for the categorization for the BLP IMDB templates. If you have questions, please let me know. Thanks, --Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 07:07, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Sorry but the sandbox was not up to date. Would you mind synchronising it and then reapplying your proposed edits? &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:51, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Will do. I'll add a new section with editprotected when I get it done (won't be right now, have to head to work for the day). Thanks  --Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 12:30, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

IMDB tags v2
I have added the IMDB tags into the template's sandbox per the previous section. Here's the changes I'm proposing. I synced with the production version of the template before making the edits, so you should be able to copy the entire sandbox into the main template to make the change. Thanks for the help. --Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 23:14, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. We got there in the end :) Let me know if there are any problems with this. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 05:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much! --Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 15:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)