Template talk:Pern stories

above (below the title bar)
Beside other changes (add Sky Dragons, tweak three group names) I have expanded the scope and revised the look of the template by inserting a top list of four links with this display:
 * Pern — Stories in Pern history — Characters — Locations


 * 1) The targets are one article, two so-called lists, and one category with the latter three renamed (piped). "Characters" is Characters in Dragonriders of Pern which has been the last group comprising one item (Characters : Characters in Dragonriders of Pern). The navbox has not provided the other three links under any name.
 * 2) Miscellaneous related articles/lists are commonly included in navigation boxes regardless whether the box nominally comprises "works", "books", "novels", etc. Sometimes this is done in a group named "miscellaneous" or "related" --usually at the bottom which is unwise at least when the nominal scope is works; one or a few "surprise" inclusions should be prominent.
 * 3) I have not seen categories provided as navbox targets. To me it seems obvious that categories such as Category: Dragonriders of Pern locations should be included and that there is no need to label them categories. The navbox should visible provide adequate overview of current wikipedia coverage.
 * 4) Pern is in the locations category but it merits separate listing here, for the same reason given.
 * 5) I have used dash because · is deprecated, without knowing whether dash is deprecated.
 * 6) I have used parameter above= rather than list1= (renumber all current groups and lists and omit group1) for its intermediate rather than light background shade.

P.S. I think Pern belongs directly in Category: Dragonriders of Pern rather than merely as the main article for the locations category. --P64 (talk) 21:58, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Removed an incorrect link
I have removed the redlink to : it appears not to be a game at all, but an edition of Fantasy Gamer magazine which has a featured review of Dragonriders of Pern. --Mirokado (talk) 18:04, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Non-Pern collections don't belong in template
@The Yeti has added two non-Pern books to the template, Get Off the Unicorn and The Girl Who Heard Dragons. These are short story collections each of which contains one Pern story. They don't belong here. Dan Bloch (talk) 20:42, 5 January 2023 (UTC)
 * As stated on your talk page ... You are using the wrong criteria. It isn't 'only one story is related, the others aren't therefore it should be excluded'. Rather it is the other way round. 'At least one story is abour Pern, and so should be included'. That the other stories are unrelated is irrelevant. There are many templates featuring characters or settings in books, films, etc, that apply this. It is very common for a writer's short story collections to feature stories from one of their longer novel series, even if most of the other stories do not, and these are mentioned in templates. Related articles are absolutely allowed in templates. The Yeti (talk) 01:22, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * They're mentioned in the template because you added them. They don't belong there. That's what we're discussing.
 * They aren't of interest to a user who clicks on them thinking they're related to Pern, because the relationship is too distant. Dan Bloch (talk) 02:11, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
 * One more time. We apparently agree that navboxes are for related links, but we disagree on what constitutes a related link.  Containing one Pern story doesn't make a book closely enough related that a reader would be interested in it.  These two books don't belong here any more than Nebula Award Stories 3, which also has one Pern story. You claim that there are many navboxes listing collections based on one related story, but you don't provide any examples. Dan Bloch (talk) 01:54, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Since The Yeti isn't responding to discussion I've removed these collections. Dan Bloch (talk) 16:16, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

You are changing an article which has the entries you dispute for over a decade. In all that time no one but you has objected to the two books. You offer nothing but your opinion as to why. It is up to you to prove why your opinion is better. You have no policy to back you. Your argument, such as it is, is weak. The books contain Pern stories. Moreover they are unique and not printed in any other book form. Templates are designed to link related articles ; that is their sole purpose.

The Nebula 3 book is a collection of stories by many authors. The story it contains was later published as Dragonflight. GOtU and tGWHD are by a single author, and the stories are unique to these books. You assume people would be disappointed by finding only one Pern story (however one Pern story is enough for inclusion). I dispute this - I am usually delighted to find a new story existed that I did not previously know of.

I do not have to prove other nav boxes - frankly you can go find them as I have no urge to help you go mangle other templates. The Yeti (talk) 02:41, 15 January 2023 (UTC)


 * You write, "You are changing an article which has the entries you dispute for over a decade." True, but not the whole story. The "Short story collections" entry was put into the template in 2006 without these two collections.  They were added by you in 2012, removed by me in April 2022, and this edit war started in December. So they've been in the template for about ten years and not in it for about seven years.  This also suggests that you and I are the only ones who care about this at all.


 * You also write that the stories are unique to the collections they're in. If this were the case I'd probably agree with you, but they aren't.  They're in A Gift of Dragons.  Does this change your position? Dan Bloch (talk) 07:22, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

RFC on inclusion of short story collections in template list
Should the short story collections by Anne McCaffery "Get Off The Unicorn" and "The Girl Who Heard Dragons" be included in the Pern stories template as they contain a Pern story, or not ? And more generally should this idea be applied to other similar short story collections and templates which feature an author's connected universe stories, which the in-universe short stories are collected together with other stories not so connected ? The Yeti (talk) 03:37, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Another similar example is Gold in the Template:Robot series template. The Yeti (talk) 03:45, 15 January 2023 (UTC)


 * For completeness, they should be mentioned in the navbox somewhere, but it should not be misleading. Maybe a group for collections in which they are named as "x in y"? &middot; &middot; &middot; Peter Southwood (talk): 04:59, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Per Peter, there is no reason they cannot be included in a separate section or with adequate signposting. As for the question of generalisation, I would recommend editors take similar approaches elsewhere, but if challenged, this RFC should not be taken as a ruling over unrelated pages. — HTGS (talk) 06:17, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with the consensus here and move to close this RfC. Thanks for the suggestion, The Yeti. You have our blessing. 🦄✨bedazzledunicorn✨🦄 19:45, 27 January 2023 (UTC)