Template talk:Police use of firearms in the United Kingdom

AFO's do not have a routine authority to carry a sidearm, just because they are firearms officers does not mean they carry a gun. I work with AFO's pushing pandas, they do not carry guns with them just because they are authorised to.

YOU MUST HAVE A REASON FOR CARRYING A FIREARM - be that a 'STANDING AUTHORITY', which I explained but has since been deleted (ie airport police, VIP bodyguards), or it be a 'SPECIFIC AUTHORITY' (where a spontaneous incident has a credible firearms threat, and the authorising officer has reason to believe officers may have to deal with persons with firearms + other reasons)

Officers on ARV's may carry sidearms routinely however this is on a 'standing authority' and the presumption that before they actually get to a firearms incident and before they have had chance to arm with their carbines they may be required to draw firearms, or they may just come across a firearms incident and have to self arm. When a firearms officer on for example training duties, or other training goes to get the sandwiches he is a normal police officer and if he is not authorised does not get to carry a firearm.

Would whoever changed it like to change it back.

Poornamechoice (talk) 22:56, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Most firearms officers on active duties will carry a sidearm, this can be displayed by the officers crewing ARVs and firearms officers of the MPS who are responsible for the static protection of premises. Also, on this page, we are not trying to give a detailed account to the point of what firearms officers do, this page is just explaining the basics. Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs) ☺ 14:13, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * This is such a complicated issue that any unreferenced information has to be removed. Sadly, the ACPO manual was confusing at best when it came to standing authority. Jack and 'Poornamechoice', whilst I do not doubt what you said, you have to reference what you're saying to a published source. If you can find it in the ACPO manual (or eleswhere), please link it. Until that time, it will have to stay out. ninety:one 18:46, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Its ok with me, I was just trying to clear up the above users complaints. Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs) ☺ 13:56, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok,

S8 ACPO Police Use Of Firearms Chapter 3 http://www.westmercia.police.uk/images/mog/Chapter03.pdf

"Firearms are issued to AFOs when an appropriate authorising officer approves their carriage, overtly or covertly, during the course of patrolling or for a specific firearms operation. In this context, the issue of firearms includes the making available for immediate operational use (i.e. actually carrying the weapon, as opposed to its being kept in a mobile armoury)."

Firearms are to be issued to AFOs (following authorisation by the appropriate authorising officer): a. Where the authorising officer has reason to suppose that they, in the course of their duty, may have to protect themselves or others from a person who: i. is in possession of a firearm, or ii. has immediate access to a firearm, or iii. is otherwise so dangerous that the officer’s use of a firearm may be necessary. b. For the humane destruction of animals which are dangerous or are suffering unnecessarily.

Standing Authority

"Where the criteria for the issue of firearms are met, standing authority for the issue and carriage of firearms may be granted to officers employed on certain specific duties."

"These include officers working at airports, nuclear sites, on Protection Duties, as well as some deployed in Armed Response Vehicles (ARV) in certain areas (for definition of ARVs, see Chapter 5)."

"In recognition of the special circumstances prevailing in Northern Ireland, the Chief Constable has given standing authority for all officers, subject to successful training, to be issued with a personal issue handgun. This standing authority will be kept under regular review in accordance with Recommendation 65 of the Independent Commission on Policing in Northern Ireland. The Chief Constable responsible for policing in Northern Ireland will also keep under review issues relating to the selection, fitness and training of officers for firearms related duties."

The important part is "Where the criteria for the issue of firearms are met"

The text "All AFOs have authorisation to carry personal sidearms as a matter of routine" is untrue, whilst AFO's working on ARV's may get to carry sidearms as a matter of routine under a standing authority, the same goes for AFO's working at Airports. However if they do not meet the forces requirements for a standing authority, then the firearms stay in the armoury.

As previously said, just because you are authorised to use firearms (IE the definition of an AFO) does not mean you get issued a firearm, you only get issued one IF you are an AFO AND the criteria for the issue of firearms are met (be they spontaneous, pre-planned or on a standing authority).

Also read http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs2/rup067.pdf which is a much older document based on the implementation of armed response vehicles.

If you read that document you will notice that ALL firearms where kept in the mobile or armouries until authority to arm was given, indeed officers first on ARV's did not even carry holsters or utility belts until authorisation was given.

ARV's officers were only given standing authority to carry sidearms routinely whilst on duty in around the mid 1990s, some forces were quicker than others but the standing authority rules still apply.

You may find your relevant force firearms turnout teams do not carry any firearms until they are at a holding point close to the scene.

Poornamechoice (talk) 20:47, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. I hope the template is updated to your satisfaction! ninety:one 22:19, 16 October 2008 (UTC)