Template talk:Prowrestling-stub

Defense
You may be wondering, "Why the heck is it necessary to have a pro wrestling stub template? Well, here's why I think it is.


 * There are a lot of pro wrestling articles.
 * I'm a big pro wrestling fan, so I've been looking over the Wiki's pro wrestling articles. Turns out there are quite a few of them, and more are being added all the time. That leads to a lot of stubs.


 * The existing stub templates aren't really adequate.
 * There's no real good way to categorize pro wrestling stubs without a separate template. Where would you put them? Sports stubs? Pro wrestling isn't really "sports". Television stubs? Not all wrestling and wrestlers are on television. Bio stubs? That wouldn't work for non-wrestler pages. There's no really obvious category, and since there are a lot of articles, I think it deserves its own.


 * I'll be using it a lot.
 * If anything, this is for my own ease of use, since I create and edit wrestling articles all the time. Go ahead and check my contribs. I've noticed a number of other frequent editors to wrestling articles, and hopefully it'll help them too.

So that's the long and short of it. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me on my talk page. --Chrysaor 23:24, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree that we need this category and I'm not going to challenge it, but in the future you might want to think of getting new stub templates approved at WikiProject Stub sorting/Criteria. (There is no official Wikipedia policy that says you have to do this, but it helps to have a community consensus before you put a lot of work into it.)
 * I'll be keeping an eye out for a better image. The current headshot doesn't mean much if you don't know enough about wrestling to recognize a particular wrestler. I understand how hard it is to find the perfect image! (A smaller one would also be nice.) -Aranel (" Sarah ") 01:54, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Ah yes, I figured there was some kind of approval system for these things, but I didn't find it. Although I admit didn't spend forever looking for it. That's more or less why I posted this defense here. I didn't put a ton of work into this, though. It's not really hard to copy-and-paste a template and add it to a couple pages. Feel free to try to find a better picture. I figured Rocky would have the best chance of being recognized by the general public, but I wouldn't be offended if you or someone else changed it. If you think the picture should be smaller, go ahead and change it. I just didn't want it to be so small as to be unrecognizable.


 * In the meantime, I'll try to turn a wrong into a right and propose this template at the WikiProject Stub sorting page.  --Chrysaor 03:15, Feb 17, 2005 (UTC)


 * Maybe a pic of two wrestlers in a lock-up? That I think would immediately suggest "pro wrestling".   &mdash; Gwalla | Talk 21:37, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

New image
Someone just changed the associated pic to the WWF's old block logo. I reverted this change, mainly because not all wrestling is WWE. If someone created a stub article for Buff Bagwell, say, an old WWF logo wouldn't belong on it. But admittedly the pic isn't the greatest. I'm looking for a better one. --Chrysaor 20:39, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

Here's an image I found on a site called Obsessed With Wrestling. I'm not sure how recognizable it is at small size. As a bonus, it's a picture of Flair and Hogan, though it's tough to tell. Would this work better? --Chrysaor 21:02, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)


 * I dunno...it's pretty hard to make out. Maybe if the space around Flair and Hogan was made transparent.   &mdash; Gwalla | Talk 04:33, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I was the person who actually changed it to the old WWF logo. The thought crossed my mind that not all wrestling is WWE, but it is the name most associated with it around the world and perhaps more importantly the picture was easily viewable and had a white background. It was most likely public domain as well, unlike most wrestling pictures. I understand your argument, but you can also make the argument that all wrestling isn't the Rock (or Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair). Rather, the WWF logo seemed to be the most iconic image that comes to most people's minds when they think about wrestling so the most-likely public domain logo seemed to be a good fit.

Although I still think that the image I uploaded was better, if you find another one, try to make sure it looks recognizable when scaled to a 30 pixel width and has/looks good on a white background. The art stub seems to be a good sample of a how a stub pic is used. :) --Jtalledo 23:09, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * It was a good quality image, no doubt...but I just didn't think it was right. Many old-school icons of the sport, like Bruno Sammartino, want nothing to do with WWE after its foray into more adult-oriented fare, and would have major problems with its logo being on an article associated with them. Some old-school fans are the same way. Oh, and as an aside, there's no way the old WWF block logo is public domain. They still show it on their TV from time to time as part of old footage, they just aren't allowed to use the WWF scratch logo anymore. We can use logos under fair use, but having it in a template shown on many pages could be seen as WWE endorsement of Wikipedia, which would be problematic.


 * This category's a tough one. I'm aware of what makes a good stub template image. My reasoning was, many categories have their best-known icon as the stub image, such as the Mona Lisa, Shakespeare for theater, Mickey Mouse for Disney, etc. So I figured Rock was appropriate, since he's more recent than Hogan and better known than Flair. I think it works for now. I also scaled it down a bit. --Chrysaor 23:47, Feb 24, 2005 (UTC)


 * Point taken. Hope you find a decent pic. --Jtalledo 00:20, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Third pic
I have to admit the new stub picture Image:Prowrestlingstub.png looks pretty good. It's a little hard to see what's happening in that picture, but yes, it's way better than having the Rock's head on all the pages with the stub note on it. I've tagged it with a tag for now.

Does anyone have information on the source of the image used to make the picture? --Jtalledo (talk) 14:44, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Asking Mattrobs would probably be the best way to find out.
 * The picture's definitely better, but it's a bit big. And most of the other stub template images don't have a Wikipedia logo. --Chrysaor 01:27, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd ask him, but he never checks his talk page. I know because one other user has tried to contact him regarding the copyright status of a lot of the images that he has uploaded to no avail. I agree that the picture is a little big and that the Wikipedia stub logo looks out of place there. I'd say we should keep it for now, but keep trying to find a better pic. I'm thinking some clipart should suffice. ;) --Jtalledo (talk) 01:33, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Have you tried "e-mail this user"?   &mdash; Gwalla | Talk 06:30, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Nope, and don't want to. I don't like e-mailing people through Wikipedia. --Jtalledo (talk) 13:50, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Firstly, it doesn't really matter what is actually happening in the picture, it's just to give viewers the impression of "wrestling" and the wikipedia puzzle piece gives the impression of "stub". I was thinking of making the actual wrestling image in the shape of a puzzle piece, but that was ditched. I don't think a source would make a difference – I could get several images and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but I would deem it suitable for the "fair use" policy. I firstly thought it was too big, but any smaller and you couldn't identify it. Once again, I think the Wikipdia puzzle piece is necessary because we are not just defining an article as "professional wrestling", we are defining it as "professional wresling stub". The puzzle piece suggests uncompleteness, etc. &mdash; mattrobs 07:22, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Another new picture
If anyone is considering finding a new stub pic, how about the NWA World Heavyweight Championship belt? It's got a rich history dating to the beginning of modern professional wrestling, and the belt was the precursor to both the WCW World Heavyweight Championship belt and the World Heavyweight Championship belt. --Jtalledo (talk) 7 July 2005 04:43 (UTC)
 * I don't know. TNA uses that belt design, and it may seem like an endorsement. --Chrysaor July 7, 2005 04:47 (UTC)
 * Not entirely. TNA isn't even technically affiliated with the NWA any more, they just use two of their titles. We could use a generic belt, but a championship belt is synonymous with boxing as well. The way I see it, there are several options for a stub picture:
 * The face of a single wrestler: We saw this with the picture of The Rock, but that didn't entirely work because it looked awkward and didn't broadly encompass professional wrestling both past and present. The NWA belt represents both past and present and should look just fine if we a decent quality picture.
 * Several wrestlers: Doesn't work because the icon should be small and it's hard to see what the picture is and what it represents.
 * Clipart or logos: Everyone agreed that the WWF logo was too narrow a logo, so all logos for particular promotions are out. Unless someone can find a piece of clipart of two Generic characters grappling (something along the lines of the little AOL Instant Messenger guy) or create one (maybe using Inkscape?), this might be out as well.


 * The NWA title seems to be a good choice for now. I think maybe we're overthinking this. There are stub articles that use a single, clear picture without issue. Image:Gamepad_Icon.png is used for computer and video games stubs and is a Gravis Gamepad Pro PC Gamepad – when I look at it, I don't think about Gravis or PC gaming being endorsed. --Jtalledo (talk) 7 July 2005 05:03 (UTC)

New picture
I changed the stub picture. The other one was alright, but Violetriga made the image smaller, so it was barely recognizable. The image Image:Prowrestlingstub.jpg is just an A.W.A tag team belt which is no longer in use. The A.W.A isn't around anymore and it's not a singles belt, so I figure it won't be too controversial. ;) --Jtalledo (talk) 00:47, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Template picture
It's not a good idea to use fair use images as stub pictures. Fair use says that fair use images can't be used in templates. It makes sense - fair use doesn't extend to making a page look pretty. Apparently, the previous image I used was deleted for the same reason. It's also not a good idea to use images that need to be resized for stub templates - they increase strain on the servers. At any rate, the generic stub jigsaw piece is adequate. --Jtalledo (talk) 03:05, 3 December 2005 (UTC)