Template talk:Reflist/Archive 14

Edit request from Stargzer, 20 May 2010
RE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_T._Barfoot

Someone needs to fix the link to FoxNews in Reference 12: Existing broken link: Title:   "Virginia Veteran Wins Battle to Keep His Flagpole in Yard" URL:    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579773,00.htm

Working link found after searching FoxNews:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2009/12/08/virginia-veteran-wins-battle-flagpole-yard/

I don't have the time to write articles, but I tend to correct broken links, misspellings, and so forth when I find them. Regards//Larry

Stargzer (talk) 01:35, 20 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know why you put the request here instead of at Talk:Van T. Barfoot, or why an was necessary (that page is not currently protected), but I carried out the request anyway. Cheers, {&#123; Nihiltres &#124;talk&#124;edits&#124;⚡}&#125; 01:44, 20 May 2010 (UTC)


 * See Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_73. I don't know how they are getting here, but I am moving these requests to the user page. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 23:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

WebKit
Could someone please replaced

with

to make this feature available for WebKit-based browsers as well? It already works at Columns-list. --bender235 (talk) 14:42, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * But it is broken with reflist. See Template:Reflist. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 14:48, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * How can that be? Is this refering to a bug in an older WebKit version? --bender235 (talk) 15:48, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. Look at the testcase linked from the section I noted. What happens when you click on cite 150? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 20:13, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Just what the sandbox text says. Hm, strange. Okay, so I guess we'll have to wait until those developers fix that bug. --bender235 (talk) 21:47, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The WebKit bug has been reported since August 2008. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 22:25, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Have you tried Chrome 5 Beta? --bender235 (talk) 10:01, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like the column link bug is fixed in Chrome 5B, but it still does not support the standard CSS column selector, so it will need the WebKit selector. I don't see any update or beta for Safari. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 10:40, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Chrome 5.0 and Safari 5.0 have been out for about a week now. I have verified that the column bug is resolved. I propose that we re-add the WekKit markup. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 22:56, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I can confirm. It is finally fixed. Now of course, the question is, how many people have the latest Safari/Chrome browsers. Usually those people upgrade rather quickly, but we don't want to push this problem on too many people using older browsers. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 15:21, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I confirm it is fixed in Safari 5.0 (6533.16) on Mac OS X. If you want to know how many visitors use each browser, the squid report may be helpful (although it looks like you'll have to wait until July to get anything useful). Anomie⚔ 17:14, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be webkit versions of 533 or higher. 530 series is Safari 4, and Chrome 2-4. Webkit 522, 525, 528 are Safari 3, 3.1 and Chrome 1 resp. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 18:05, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Oddly, it seems Apple went with 6533 rather than just 533. Safari version history may also be useful. Anomie⚔ 18:21, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * One is the application build version, the other is the webkit build version. userAgent only uses webkit buildversion. When they significantly change the Safari application, the first number is raised. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 18:52, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Template:Reflist/Safari testcase2 uses the sandbox version of Reflist. The columns are fine, but I am seeing something odd with the target highlight using Safari 5. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 22:47, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems fine to me, what are you seeing? Anomie⚔ 03:32, 17 June 2010 (UTC)


 * The target highlighting is acting odd. When I clink in an in-text link, the page jumps to the proper line in the reference list, but doesn't highlight. If I press the backspace to return to the text, then scroll down, then the target is highlighted. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 18:48, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Odd, it works fine here. Which version of Safari are you testing with, specifically? I have "5.0 (6533.16)" on OS X 10.6.4 here. Anomie⚔ 20:04, 19 June 2010 (UTC)


 * 5.0 (7533.16) on Windows 7. Template:Reflist/Safari testcase uses a div instead of Reflist. Highlighting works every time, but sometimes it highlights the entire cite, sometimes the highlight is just an underline. The HTML output for Template:Reflist/Safari testcase and Template:Reflist/Safari testcase2 is the same. Highlighting is not a function of Reflist, so it is not a template bug. ---—  Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 23:48, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I would not be terribly surprised if the highlighting is a problem in the Windows version but not the Mac. We need more data points. BTW, does the highlighting issue happen on live articles (i.e. no columns for Webkit) too? Anomie⚔ 00:43, 20 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi folks, Thích_Quảng_Đức is not forming columns in Google Chrome 5.0.375.70. Chrome's upgrade check came up with no new upgrades.  Works fine in Firefox though.  - BalthCat (talk) 17:38, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Correct. WebKit based browsers such as Chrome have had a bug, so Reflist currently does not support columns.---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 18:48, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Font size in Vector
With the new interface, the reference list font size is now 100%. Anyone know what is causing that? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 10:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * My guess is that the CSS attribute that the template is looking for is either defined differently or does not exist in Vector. We either need to find out what the new name is if it's something different, or have that element defined under Vector.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 03:53, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * It is still 90%. Before however the difference was 2pt in fontsize, and now it is just 1pt. This is because the basefont is 'slightly' smaller (in value, not in pt), causing a different rounding. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 12:07, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * When I posted this, the fonts appeared the same size in Vector. Now the reflist font looks smaller. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 12:09, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * For me (using Firefox 3.6.3), it is still displaying 100% instead of the small font size. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:10, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

The first line is standard text, the second is spanned with class="references-small":
 * The Quick Brown Fox Jumps Over The Lazy Dog
 * The Quick Brown Fox Jumps Over The Lazy Dog


 * With FireFox and monoboox, the second line ends in the middle of the "a" in "Lazy".
 * With FireFox and Vector, the second line ends in the middle of "D" in "Dog".
 * With IE8 and Vector, the second line ends a bit into "D" in "Dog".

---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 20:24, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * For me (Firefox and Vector), the two lines display to the end here, and look virtually identical, with the second line a little bit (insignificantly) smaller than the first line. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:55, 31 May 2010 (UTC)


 * You have your zoom set to 0 with ctrl-0? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 01:05, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I have FF 3.6.3. I can't reproduce it by setting the zoom. I don't see anything in your CSS or JS. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 01:09, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


 * FireFox → Tools → Options → Content. What is the default font and size? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 01:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Times New Roman, 16 point. (Nothing happens when I press crtl-0.) --Tryptofish (talk) 16:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Consinuing at Requests_for_comment/May_2010_skin_change/Bug_reports

Edit request from Laburke, 19 June 2010
editprotected

In ref.16, Carrol should be Carroll

Laburke (talk) 15:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
 * This is the wrong place to make this request. You should make this request on the talk page of the article the problem is on. This is the talk page for the template in general, which is used on probably millions of articles.  Sorafune   話  16:10, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 121.208.9.44, 28 June 2010
Please ad www.jetdryer.com.au to hand dryer list

121.208.9.44 (talk) 04:03, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
 * This is not the place to ask for additions for invocations of the template. Please ask on the article's talk page that includes the template&mdash;not on the template itself.  Additionally, please consider reviewing our advertising as well as our conflict of interest guidelines. Thanks. -- slakr  \ talk / 04:58, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Mjrielly, 30 June 2010
I would like permission to add a reference to the Santa Claus Oath to Charlie's entry.

I am an historian of Charles W. Howard and have been to the Santa Claus School three times. The Santa Claus Oath was written by Phil Wenz (referenced). I (Michael Rielly) helped write the Oath with Phil (you can ask him) and I personally designed the Santa Claus Oath Coat of Arms.

http://www.clausnet.com/forums/uploads/1243955080/gallery_5_313_277103.png

The Santa Claus Oath is dedicated to Charles Howard and Jim Yellig -- both famous Santa Claus(es).

The website www.clausnet.com is dedicated to Howard and Yellig and is a central hub for all those who follow the traditions set by Jim and Charlie.

Thanks!

Michael

Michael (talk) 18:55, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * ❌ I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to request, but I'm fairly certain you're not asking for the reflist template to be edited.  Giftiger Wunsch   [TALK]  18:59, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Mjrielly, 1 July 2010
editprotected

Can we add the Santa Claus Oath reference to Charles W. Howard?

http://santaclausoath.webs.com/charleswhoward.htm

Michael (talk) 16:40, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * You might be able to if you ask at the correct place. This page is for talking about the template that puts references at the bottom of articles, it has nothing to do with any particular article. Anomie⚔ 16:45, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Istoleahalo, 13 July 2010
I found a useful reference to be added next to the current L-Space Reading Order Guide, which is reference 25 at this moment. http://www.amazon.com/The-Complete-Discworld/lm/R2HT7D2GKTEI27/ref=cm_lm_byauthor_title_full provides a suggested reading order of the main novels from start to finish, following one story arc at a time. Please add this link as a new reference 26.

Istoleahalo (talk) 15:44, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Please add this yourself on the relevant article or discuss it on that article's talk page; this talk page is for discussing changes which need to be made to the template, which is the template which causes references used in an article to be listed.  Giftiger Wunsch    [TALK]  15:46, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Columns not working on Chrome and Safari
When I view reference lists formatted with or  etc using the Chrome or Safari browsers on OS X, I see only a single column. The same column formatting works fine for me on Firefox-based browsers. The strange part is that the same column formatting also works fine on all browsers for reference sections formatted with refbegin and refend — it's only reflist that doesn't work. Since it does work for refbegin/refend, obviously there should be some way to make it work for this template too. Any ideas how? —David Eppstein (talk) 18:09, 20 July 2010 (UTC)


 * See Template:Reflist and the linked testcase. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 18:16, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, so it's a deliberate choice to work around a bug in older browser versions, thanks. What mechanism is there for determining when sufficiently many users have stopped using the old buggy version that column support can be re-enabled? —David Eppstein (talk) 18:43, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Looks like these versions have the fixes:
 * Safari 5.0 (6533.16) OSX
 * Safari 4.1 (4533.16) OSX Tiger
 * Safari 5.0 (7533.16) Win
 * Safari 5.0 (6531.22.7) iOS
 * Chrome 5.0.375 (533)
 * Chrome 6.0.466.0 (534)

The latest log is from 29 Jun 2010. Chrome seems straightforward, but the Safari versions appear ambiguous when matched with Safari version history. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 20:24, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Reflist groups
I used to be able to write on talk pages if I wanted to post a section of an article, and show only the refs for that section. Today I can't get it work. It's showing all the refs on the talk page, as though "close=1" wasn't there. I may be doing it wrong, or it could be that something has changed somewhere. Does anyone know which is more likely? SlimVirgin talk| contribs 20:03, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not supposed to restrict to the refs for that section, but sweep up all refs declared since the most recent instance of . Look back through the talk page for the location of the prior to the one in question, and then work forward counting refs (remembering to include the less-obvious constructs like  and  ). You should find that the total matches the number of refs collected by the reflist in question. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:32, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * And really, there is nothing special about "close=1". If you use just plain multiple times on the page, MediaWiki will cache the output from the first time and reuse it for the rest. Specifying any parameters (e.g. your  ) currently bypasses that caching. You could just as well use  (specifying an empty value for the first unnamed parameter) if you wanted. Anomie⚔ 20:37, 3 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid I didn't understand either of these responses. Sorry! :) What I was trying to do was quote a section of the article on the talk page, and have only the refs in that section appear below it. By posting , all the footnotes previously posted on the talk page are collected too. I thought by posting  then close=2, then close=3 etc for each occurrence, it bypassed that. Did I misunderstand how it works?  SlimVirgin  talk| contribs 21:29, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been WP:BOLD and added at several strategic points within Talk:Christ myth theory. I hope they're OK. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:32, 3 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, they're great, that's very kind. SlimVirgin  talk| contribs


 * You have to have the reflist in every section where there are references. reflist-talk is designed for talk pages and includes an explicit close. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 21:42, 3 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Not being aware of, I did it , which seems to have worked. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:57, 3 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, I think I see. So it always has to be reflist|close=1 --  I was thinking the number had to change each time it was used. I'll check out the reflist-talk template too. Thank you!  SlimVirgin  talk| contribs 03:39, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * At the moment, it doesn't matter what number you use, or if you use "close" rather than any other word. It is remotely possible that a future update to MediaWiki would require different numbers and/or words, but I don't think that's worth worrying about now. Anomie⚔ 20:38, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Bkuznar, 5 August 2010
Please change the first reference link, as it points at an empty page. Change from http://www.mcgplc.com/company_history%7CManagement to http://www.mcgplc.com/company_history

Bkuznar (talk) 08:28, 5 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Fixed, on Management Consulting Group. This wasn't a bug in this template, but in the article code. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 09:31, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Gsdcv, 5 August 2010
editprotected

on the wiki page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verein_für_Deutsche_Schäferhunde Please change the reference link ^ "About the Breed". German Shepherd Dog Club of Victoria Inc.. http://www.gsdcv.org.au/articles/breed/about_the_breed.htm. Retrieved 2008-08-07. "They were joined by 9 other Co-founders ..." to ^ "About the Breed". German Shepherd Dog Club of Victoria Inc.. http://www.gsdcv.org.au/GSD_history. Retrieved 2010-08-05. "They were joined by 9 other Co-founders ..." as the link to the GSDCV page was incorrect (following a website update)

Gsdcv (talk) 00:05, 6 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Misplaced. Moved to user talk. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 00:17, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 68.168.165.72, 6 August 2010
editprotected

In Notes 3 and 4, please change this: ^ in the 2001 Indian university Oral History statement to this: ^ in the 2001 Indiana University Oral History statement

because the referenced link regards Indiana University, and makes no mention of any "Indian university".

68.168.165.72 (talk) 21:26, 6 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Misplaced. Not enough information to determine the article. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 01:23, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Rinkjustice, 8 August 2010
Under Reference, the second link ^ a b "The Loudness War" at PerformerMag should be removed. &#91;&#91;User:Rinkjustice&#124;rinkjustice&#93;&#93; (talk) 19:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

&#91;&#91;User:Rinkjustice&#124;rinkjustice&#93;&#93; (talk) 19:04, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Misplaced request. You should raise this question at the article's talk page. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This is the fourth in as many days, with none for previous 3-4 wks. Why are people suddenly doing this - has a help page changed; has there been bad advice at Help desk, or is it just a random coincidence? -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:13, 8 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_73. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 20:08, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I took part in that discussion myself, so am aware how the uninitiated users are raising requests - but that thread was last posted to on 31 March 2010 (and ). Since that thread has not been on the main WP:VPT page for several months now, my question is, why has the rate of  requests submitted here suddenly increased in the last week or so? Are the users being directed to that archive, or has a notice gone up somewhere saying something like "You cannot edit this article, but you can go to Template:Reflist: in that, click "view source" where you will find a "Submit an edit request" link - use that". Seems far-fetched, but where else are they getting the idea that this talk page is the place to come? -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:32, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Klavemu, 13 August 2010
Reference 8 reads: A.T. Williams. "Sneaking Up On Einstein"

Reference 8 should read: Alan T. Williams. "Faraday, Thomson, and Maxwell"

Thank you for your help in this matter.

Klavemu (talk) 17:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Wrong place. Please request a change at the talk page of the article in question.  — fetch ·  comms   17:41, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Colintrombone, 16 September 2010
edit protected

Can you add a reference to this book Creating Circles of Friends 2005, Newton and Wilson: Inclusive SOlutions, UK - http://www.inclusive-solutions.com/bookdetails.asp?ID=106 ThanksColintrombone (talk) 07:30, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Colintrombone (talk) 07:30, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Misplaced; returned to user talk. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 09:02, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Vijay.0288, 21 September 2010
Could the ait site be added in the reference section of the wiki and can the logo of the institute be added so that it can be put up in the infobox. thank you.

Vijay.0288 (talk) 14:43, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
 * If you want to add a reference to a particular article, you can simply edit that article. This is the page to discuss changes to the template which is used to display references on many wikipedia articles.  Giftiger Wunsch   [TALK]  14:48, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from InsertNameHere, 22 September 2010
Reference #1, to ACS 'What is prostate cancer?' page is broken (404). The new url for this page appears to be: http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/ProstateCancer/OverviewGuide/prostate-cancer-overview-what-is-prostate-cancer

Thank you.

InsertNameHere (talk) 22:12, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It sounds like you're trying to fix a url in an article; please do so by editing the reference in that article. This page is not an article, it is the template which is used in many articles to display references which appear in the article.  Giftiger Wunsch   [TALK]  22:32, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * This is ✅ (I think): I corrected the link of the first reference in Prostate cancer. Since this page does not have any protection, you could have simply done this yourself though. Here is a diff if you want to see how I fixed the reference.  Giftiger Wunsch   [TALK]  22:35, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Answerman51, 4 October 2010
edit protected

Hi Admin Team,

The following 2 pages are blatant advertisements and should be removed from the ref list.

"What's in Extenze" and "What is Extenze" are links to advertising pages from the Sell Health company, a direct selling company. Both pages include links and phone numbers for purchasing the product.

The following page should be removed or relinked to an appropriate page.

"Extenze Complaints - Side Effects" links to a page on trout fishing which has no relevance to the Extenze male enhancement product.

Thanks,

Answerman51 (talk) 09:03, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Those links are not on the template reflist itself, but rather in an article; they're created by &lt;ref&gt; tags in the article itself. Remove the &lt;ref&gt; tags, and you remove the reference from the list; I hope that helps. --ais523 10:05, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

General recommendation to use "colwidth" parameter
I propose to replace this line (in section "Columns"):
 * Three-column lists are inaccessible to users with smaller/laptop monitors and should be avoided.

with this (or something similar):
 * Bearing in mind that Wikipedia is viewed on all kind of devices (with screen resolutions ranging from 480×800 to 1920×1200), any fixed number of columns should be avoided.

Support? Opposition? —bender235 (talk) 02:26, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Any fixed number" is confusing. How about simply Multiple columns should be avoided. — Edokter • Talk  • 03:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, it's not multiple columns that should be avoided, but (like a said) a "fixed number" of them. Which means: instead of using, which produces two columns on every screen, one should use , which (like Template:Reflist/doc already says) "will allow the browser to automatically choose the number of columns based on the width of the web browser." —bender235 (talk) 09:52, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Can a browser even do that? — Edokter • Talk  • 12:20, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * As of now it only works in Gecko- and Webkit-based browsers (Firefox, Safari, Chrome, ...). So in case you're using one of these browsers, browse e.g. Albert Einstein and reduze the size of your browser window. —bender235 (talk) 13:54, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Doesn't seem to work in Chrome, I get just one column (at 1280 width). — Edokter • Talk  • 14:02, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Columns in Webkit are disabled due to errors in their early implementation of them. It's fixed now, but the idea was to wait a bit longer with enabling columns for chrome. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 14:09, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * See above for some discussions on WebKit. I would like to see the next log to ensure the adoption of fixed browser versions by our readers.


 * Changing the documentation is fine by me, but it won't resolve the use of the numeric columns. I suspect that a majority of those who use the template have never read the documentation (and probably true for any template. We could change the template to eliminate column-count; the numbers would select column-width, for example 2 would set colwidth=30em, 3 would set colwidth=25em and and 4 would set colwidth=20em. Anything larger sets colwidth=20em. And yes, 20em is quite suitable for the citation section of articles that use shortened footnotes; see Chaco Culture National Historical Park. ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 15:48, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I've been using 20em for some months now. It copes with most shortened footnotes particularly when or  are used; the main exceptions are when there are three surnames, one or more of which is longish or double-barreled - for these it may wrap onto a second row. In such cases, 25em is usually sufficiently wide. Agree that Chrome and IE7 presently show a multi-column  as a single column. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:16, 6 September 2010 (UTC)


 * "Ensuring" readers to use fixed browser version is not a feasable expectation. Frankly, with all the bugs and problems surrounding columns in the past couple of years, I would not be sad to see the whole column support be taken out until these are all fixed and adoption of modern browsers has been established. — Edokter • Talk  • 16:22, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Just because some browsers don't support a feature is not a reason to remove it from all. The way that multi-column reflist is written, it fails gracefully: if the wikicode specifies multiple columns, but the browser doesn't support that, the page presented to the end user has nothing missing. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:18, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * (←) Apart that I would like to see only code that all browsers support, the history of this template also shows that columns are still not working properly in those browsers that do support it. It has not been even finalized by W3C, so why support anything that is not standardised? — Edokter • Talk  • 01:54, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * They seem to be working properly now, it just took Apple a while to release a version with their bugs fixed. As for "only code that all browsers support", I guess it's time to say goodbye to images too? Anomie⚔ 02:09, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Why? All current major browsers support images... — Edokter • Talk  • 16:20, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, current major browsers. That's not what you said earlier. But all current major browsers either support multiple columns or fail gracefully, so why should we not use the feature for those that can support it? Anomie⚔ 17:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Let me put it another way, so that we cannot not fall back to this irrelevant bickering... All code used by Wikipedia shall be supported by all browsers, meaning that no proprietary code that is only supported by one browser, may be used. This shall include, but not limited to, HTML code and CSS attrributes only supported by certain browsers, like &lt;BLINK>, &lt;MARQUEE> and CSS styling not widely supported in a general way (as is evident by the fact we need to put in code for each browser seperately). In short; use only standardized features that are widely implemented and supported. — Edokter • Talk  • 17:34, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Why should we restrict ourselves in that way? Also, you might want to go talk to the people who designed Vector, they used  and  . Anomie⚔ 19:17, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, that's to bad. I've always believed that Wikipedia was one of the few websites that strictly adhered to webstandards, keeping experimental code at bay. I'll certainly not be able to stop this trend, so this is the last I'm going to say about it. — Edokter</b> • Talk  • 01:02, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I came over here to recommend changing the default in the example to 35em since 30em produces columns that are two small on my computer. I suspect that part of this is the default font sizes used, but choosing a default colwidth that is too small, is in my mind, the larger problem. I use 1920x1080 on a 23 inch display, and my normal window is about 75% of the screen. So when I see 20em being discussed, I cringe since that would break the columns into overly narrow ones (4 in my window and 5 full screen). Using 30em gives me 3 columns in the window and full screen. Using 35em gives me 2 columns in the window and 3 full screen. Vegaswikian (talk) 18:56, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Er, neither the number nor the width of columns affects the font size within the reflist, so 35em will use exactly the same font size as 30em. If too narrow a width, or too many columns are specified, word-wrapping occurs; the font doesn't shrink. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:54, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Not everyone has such a large screen, particularly those of us on laptops. On my old computer anything over 24em would give me only a single column, so I overrode it in my monobook.css ; my current computer will barely handle 35em. Anomie⚔ 20:27, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, on my 10in screen, 35em displays 1 column or 2 at full screen as expected. So I still think that the advice to use 35em is reasonable. Vegaswikian (talk) 03:26, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * How about Chaco Culture National Historical Park v. Chaco Culture National Historical Park? ---— Gadget850 (Ed)  talk 04:57, 8 September 2010 (UTC)