Template talk:Regeneration stories

The focus of the template
What is the focus of this template meant to be? It seems inconsistant between the different Doctors. It lists the stories where the regenrations occurred, but has, for instance, "Doctor Who" twice. "Spearhead from Space" does not actually show a regeneration at all. Is the intention to list any story that *deals* with regereation? Then shouldn't "Destiny of the Daleks" be included, as it deals with Romana's? I guess it just doesn't seem clear. Rhindle The Red 23:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Doctor Who is listed twice because it covers the regeneration from the Seventh to Eighth Doctors. I suppose by that logic, Logopolis could go under Fourth and Fifth, but I think the idea is that the TV movie gives enough screen-time to each that it's listed under both. (I didn't create this template, and I'm not sure I agree that it should be listed twice, but I assume that's the reasoning.) And Destiny of the Daleks is listed, under "Other characters". --Brian Olsen 02:03, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Whoops! Missed Destiny. Rhindle The Red 14:44, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If you don't mind I put The Last Great Time War as the Eighth Doctor's regeneration episode. Even though it was not broadcast that is when he regenerated.  Anonymous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.96.245 (talk)
 * I've reverted - I don't believe it's ever been stated for sure that the Doctor regenerated during the Time War (even though it does seem likely). --Brian Olsen 17:05, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Originally it was 'television stories dealing with regeneration', making it more clear what it was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.48.236 (talk) 20:00, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Why, in a template that otherwise lists story titles, do we have a "see also" to a character (Valeyard)? Surely, the focus of the template is Doctor Who televised stories which show the process of Regeneration.  (In fact, maybe that should be the title of the thing for absolute clarity).  Having the Valeyard there confuses the picture. It opens up the door to any episode which discusses regeneration, by which logic you could include all multi-Doctor stories, stories where new facts about regeneration are brought to light ("Brain of Morbius", "Mawdryn Undead", "Last of the Time Lords"), stories where the fact of regeneration is discussed or implied ("Human Nature", "School Reunion", "Earthshock") and even "42", where the Doctor makes an attempt to explain regeneration to an uninitiated companion.  Seems to me that Valeyard should just be dropped.  The Doctor didn't regenerate in "Trial of the Time Lords", and this whole business of him being an "intermediate" stage of the Doctor is a matter of interpretation, anyway.  Czech Out   ☎ |  ✍  06:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * No Idea, I am editing the Valeyard reference out to see who if anyone objects. AlexanderJBateman (talk) 13:42, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

stolen earth/journey's end - move to "see also"
Since the regeneration in The Stolen Earth/Journey's End was an aborted one and didn't go all the way through, would it perhaps be appropriate to move it to the "see also" section. 188.221.79.22 (talk) 17:43, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * No, this was by all means the start of a regeneration. — Edokter • Talk  • 19:58, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

regeneration needs sorting and ordering
i have noticed that on the first doctor it says the tenth planet was his regeneration to the second doctor, which is correct. however on eighth doctor it says doctor who meaning the 1996 tv movie, the eighth regeneration was unaired and the movie was infact the seventh becoming eighth so is incorrect. then on ninth doctor it says parting of the ways which is right again. i dont know much about the classic series but i believe it needs reordering, if the eighth is the wrong episode it could have messed up the other orders.

I find this confusing watching from 2005 and im sure newcomers would too —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.69.108.37 (talk) 21:52, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

The Master
If this template is supposed to deal with regeneration undergone in the TV show, shouldn't the Master's regenerations (Such as in Utopia) be listed? AlexanderJBateman (talk) 13:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The Stolen Earth, Journey's End and The Impossible Astronaut
Could anyone wishing to discuss these episodes' inclusion on this template please do so at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Doctor Who. Thank you. U-Mos (talk) 13:06, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Another Category
Sadly I can't think at the moment of an appropriate title - but is there an argument for another category in this navbox following Day of the Doctor - I'm not suggesting listing the War Doctor, I know the consensus on other pages regarding the real world viewpoints. Looking at the box, however, The Impossible Astronaut and The Day of the Doctor in my opinion don't sit well alongside Fatal Death as something to "See Also" Especially since DotD contained a full regeneration. Perhaps a "Doctor Misc." category (or something snappier if anyone can think of one). That would also serve as a good home for The Stolen Earth/Journey's End" and leave the navbox clear to link the actual regeneration to the lead Doctor.

On another matter - is it appropriate to leave the Children in Need ep in "See Also", now there is another regeneration story of comparable length and format assigned to a Doctor with "Night of the Doctor" for the Eighth. Ph 1980 (talk) 21:51, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Bad Wolf
Bad Wolf is not technically a regeneration story.JohnSmith5000100 (talk) 22:32, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

To clear up formatting, what about something like this?
The only issues that I can see are that the grouping titles may be overlong and it relegates Stolen Earth/Journey's End to See also.

Goodsmudge(Talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:27, 8 December 2013‎
 * To save filling up the talk page with ideas, and per WP:TESTCASES, I've moved the suggestion to Template:Regeneration stories/sandbox. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:27, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I hoped people would discuss the sandboxed idea, but it's clear that the edit-warring on the main template will continue, so I've raised the protection by one notch from semi-prot to template-prot. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:54, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
 * This is really not a good idea. Way too vertical - there is no benefit in creating groups with just one or two entries in a navbox, and per WP:BIDIRECTIONAL, we should not be linking to all the individual doctors to avoid WP:Template creep.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:29, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe not this but I feel The Stolen Earth/Journey's End should go in see also and The Night of the Doctor should go in main stories. A regeneration story should be a story where a regeneration, as in a transition to another Doctor, actually takes place. But overall I would prefer that manner of list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Catholic nerd (talk • contribs) 07:11, 18 December 2013‎

I've added something to the Sanbox. Also, I propose using this as the Sandbox talk page. jSmith11 (talk) 02:01, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Template sandboxes almost never have their own talk pages - the few sandbox talk pages that do exist were probably created in error. All discussion about proposed changes should be on the main talk page for the template, which is here. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:15, 19 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Remove all the "set after regeneration" ones?Zythe (talk) 20:27, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Power of the Daleks is only subjectively a regeneration story, however I think that the majority concensus is that it is not, merely the full episode debut of the Second Doctor. The actual transformation sequemce 1>2 happens in The Tenth Planet, hence why it is a regeneration story. Similarly, the Children in Need mini-episode does not feature the 9/10>10/11 regeneration sequence and is hence not a regeneration story. Do you see the distinction? The regeneration stories featuring the actual transformation sequences are: The Tenth Planet (1>2), Planet of the Spiders (3>4), Logopolis (4>5), Caves of Androzani (5>6), Time and the Rani (6>7), the movie (7>8), The Parting of the Ways [not "Bad Wolf" and not Children in Need] (9/10>10/11), The End of Time (10/11>11/12) and "The Time of the Doctor" (11/12>12/13). The War Games is included because not to do so would be overly pedantic and ridiculous merely because we don't see the Third Doctor debut. I personally am in favour of removing the entire 'after regeneration' section. Goodsmudge(Talk) 20:16, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

The newest proposal is highly inconsistent (third one down). It gives an unofficial name to "Doctor Who: Children in Need" and includes "Let's Kill Hitler" in the Television stories section, which is otherwise exclusively for the character of the Doctor. The War Games is not included, I assume because it does not show the transition of the Second to Third Doctor? It should be included. Both Children in Need 2005 and "The Noght of the Doctor" must be moved to See also; they are not television stories. I do not understand why The Power of the Daleks has been included. Could you please rectify/clarify these points? Goodsmudge(Talk) 09:20, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 22 December 2013
The Night of the Doctor should go among the main regeneration stories, as it was a regeneration story. If an aborted regeneration goes there (I don't think I should) then a full regeneration should go there.

Catholic nerd (talk) 11:38, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. Please discuss in section immediately above. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:42, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Redesign
The issue I can see with the multiple designs is that they are becoming increasingly pedantic and that there is not a clear definition of what constitutes a "regeneration story". I define a "regeneration story" as a story which marks the end of one actor's role as the Doctor and usually sees the transformation of that Doctof into their successor, the exception being The War Games, which is nevertheless a regeneration story. The effect of the multiple Patrick Troughton heads is debateably a regeneration VFX and the numerous references to a "change in appearance" clearly qualify it as a regeneration atory. To that end, The Power of the Daleks, Spearhead from Space, et al. are not regeneration stories; they are the full episode debuts of a new actor playing the Doctor, which is something entirely different that this template is not trying to record. The only examples of this type of episode that I feel could be included in "See also" at the very least are "The Christmas Invasion" and "The Eleventh Hour", as we see what is unambiguously regenerative energy.

Wikipedia templates are intended to give a brief, comprehensive view of the relevant articles. This template is particular is trying to give a brief, comprehensive view of all the serials/episodes of Doctor Who which see one Doctor transition to another. To that end, the episodes that should be listed are:
 * 1) The Tenth Planet
 * 2) The War Games
 * 3) Planet of the Spiders
 * 4) Logopolis
 * 5) The Caves of Androzani
 * 6) Time and the Rani
 * 7) Doctor Who (film)
 * 8) "The Parting of the Ways"
 * 9) "The Stolen Earth"/"Journey's End"
 * 10) The End of Time
 * 11) "The Night of the Doctor"
 * 12) "The Day of the Doctor"
 * 13) "The Time of the Doctor"

If we continue to use the section heading 'Television episodes', "The Night of the Doctor" must be excluded. I find this relatively simple. Can we please agree that ths above fourteen episodes are the primary "regeneration stories" that we are trying to link to here? Goodsmudge(Talk 14:58, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * The Power of the Daleks: "Episode One", Robot: "Part One", Castrovalva: "Part One", and Doctor Who: Children in Need: "The New Doctor" do show the regeneration as well. The War Games is questionable as a regeneration story (the Second Doctor knows that Jamie and Zoe had their minds wiped in "The Five Doctors" and Jamie knows about the Time Lords in The Two Doctors).  Also, under 'see also' I think we also need to put Seven Keys to Doomsday, as it features a 'regeneration' in one version. jSmith11 (talk) 04:46, 9 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I find it clear that the climactic scene of The War Games was intended to be read as the Doctor's second regeneration. That subsequent stories have undermined continuity does not change this. —Flax5 15:21, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

FIX With Common Sense
Please add the first episode of series 8 Deep Breath (Doctor Who) for the following EXPLAINED Reasoning.

Since the Doctor regenerated in the last episode, The Time of the Doctor, then it only makes perfect sense that the next episode will be POST Regeneration. The proof is the information from BBC that Matt Smith WILL NOT be in the episode, rather it will feature Peter Capaldi. As you can see from that reference source, it makes clear that this will be Peter Capaldi's first episode as the Doctor after Matt Smith regenerated.

Soccersalvatore (talk) 22:34, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

It might make perfect sense, and it might be true, but it's not verified. Someone challenged your text so you should find a source that verifies your text (see WP:CHALLENGE). DonQuixote (talk) 22:36, 11 July 2014 (UTC)