Template talk:Template parameter usage

Additions to the template
I propose to add some options to this template. Default behaviour does not change.

Current options:
 * Infobox film template name (without namespace); default = current template (on its page) &rarr;
 * yes = lowercase "see ..." &rarr;

New options:
 * 1. Entering Template:Infobox film is accepted (namespace is removed). Editor friendly.
 * 2. When 1 is used, "this template" text changes: &rarr;
 * 3. label sets the visible text (does not change the link):
 * label default &rarr;
 * none &rarr;
 * for &rarr;
 * FooBar &rarr;

Options are tested in Template error report/testcases. Bamyers99@undefined. -DePiep (talk) 10:51, 30 September 2019 (UTC)


 * By the way: is "error report" the right wording? The report does not only report errors, but just any parameter usage. -DePiep (talk) 10:59, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 * New version looks OK to me. Regarding the wording, I didn't create the template. I have no opinion about it. --Bamyers99 (talk) 19:57, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 30 September 2019

 * Please copy/paste all /sandbox content into the live template.
 * Changes, talks & tests: see and testcases. Current behaviour does not change (=default). User:Bamyers99, who maintains the tool, does not object. DePiep (talk) 20:03, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Looks good to me. Nice work &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:17, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Improvements
Hi. I see you are working in Template error report/sandbox. I remember last week there was a discussion (but I don't know where). Could you link to that talk? May I note this:
 * The name "Monthly error report" is not a correct name, we agree. Given the two main functions (1. list template usage in articles=mainspace; 2. list its parameter usage there), the name could better be:
 * "Template usage", or "Template parameter usage".
 * Helpful? (A longer, more descriptive name is not useful nor needed here IMO). -DePiep (talk) 20:01, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * It appears we've had an edit conflict. I'll post my version of this issue down here. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 20:33, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Useless text
The current text


 * "See the monthly error report for this template."

is useless for users both old and new. I had no idea what the hell it was talking about when I first saw it. It's describing a tool that displays parameter usage data for the template, not a "monthly error report". The only thing "monthly" about it is that its data is refreshed each month and that values used by "date" parameters are typically months and years (so, no other parameters fall under this description). It's not an "error" report. It reports valid and invalid uses of parameters, indicates their "suggest" or "required" status and gives a direct transclusion count in the mainspace and file namespace. As above, seems to agree.

The tool needs a brief description as well, so users know what they're clicking and why.

I've added a new version to the sandbox (testcases) (since updated per discussion below), retaining DePiep's functionality added in the section above.

It should also be placed back on its original line in TemplateData header, as it's completely separate from TemplateData. The lowercase functionality added in February 2018 should thus be removed.

· • SUM1 • ·   (talk) 20:33, 8 March 2020 (UTC). Edited: 17:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)


 * OK, thx. I think the proposed name needs improvement, "TemplateParametersTool" covers many many tools & other templates ;-). Something like "Template [usage] Report"? And in TemplateDataHeader, the description lines you mention here may be too long (should be in a /doc page though). Strip the (...) bracketed text?-DePiep (talk) 20:58, 8 March 2020 (UTC)


 * The name of the tool (which is not proposed) is another issue. I've posted a discussion that mentions it to the tool creator, though it's under the premise that the current name is acceptable. "Parameters" must be mentioned, since they are the centrepiece of the tool's functionality. Based on your own recommendations, the best I can come up with is "TemplateParameterUsageReport", "TemplateParameterUsageData" or "TemplateParameterUsageInfo", preferably the first (as it is most descriptive and implies a tool). But I have no issue with the current name.
 * The name of this template is a much bigger issue, and I will start a rename discussion as soon as the improvements are made to the template contents (or maybe even sooner). Assuming the current tool name stays the same, this template should be called none other than "Template:TemplateParametersTool". · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 21:22, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Personally, I don't believe my Template error report/sandbox edits are too long when they will only ever belong in the doc page, which is the doc page's entire purpose, to aid the user in understanding a template, and a fair amount of people will not have any clue what TemplateData or the TemplateParametersTool is. It's the exact reason there are usage notes for templates, which are far longer than anything in my suggestion. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 21:29, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Not to mention, I retained your text-shortening functionality, so there should be no issue. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 21:29, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * (ec) Why "..Tool"? Why "Template ..."? That is trying to describe the thing instead of naming the thing. And: way too generic (everything in software is a 'tool'; all parameters are template parameters in its context. Shold we add "Wikipedia..." too?). *Naming it*, OTOH, is taking care of an unique name (good to identfy & recognise), and does not have the burden of having to describe its functions. We don't name thing "Infobox that lists the main properties of a Building articler". -DePiep (talk) 21:34, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Are you referring to the name of this template or the name of TemplateParametersTool? If the latter, you should bring up your concerns with, the creator of the tool. I only wish to line this template's name up with that of the tool it contains. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 21:39, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * No change for the tool itself (which is not enwiki anyway). The template, and all of its documentation & talk, should relate to WP:TDMER (whith a better name/shortcut of course). etc., etc: one big WikiProject. I know toolcreator Bamyers99 is not interested in how we use it here, so no problem from there. -DePiep (talk) 22:47, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I propose this. We name it WikiProject:Template Usage Report (WP:TUR), and the TemplateDate header can say the same. Solved? -DePiep (talk) 23:51, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Fine, omit "Parameters", if we're going to be that insistent on brevity over precision. And don't get me wrong, I do see the benefits of that, I just remember how darn confused I was about what the tool did at the start. But these changes need to happen now. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 14:45, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * By the way, I also see your point about removing the brackets, but I propose that they could be retained as an optional parameter if for whatever reason more explanation is needed on a certain page (maybe a template with high likelihood of this tool being used by many users). I've added this to the sandbox. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 15:31, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Had a rethink. Now I'm back to believing that the explanation should be default and allowed to be disabled. Transclusions aren't parameter data, and it helps for the user to know what they could gain out of clicking that link before they click it. Added to sandbox. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 15:40, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * From here, I can leave the renaming of this template to you safely ;-). Cathcy will help us all. (pls consider using a shortcut too, i.e., move WP:TDR current WP:TDmer to a new shortcut).
 * I'll take a look at the (descriptive) text it will add. -DePiep (talk) 15:52, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok great. And yes, I was going to move/create the shortcut too. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 16:24, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I think the full description better be in enwiki's homepage of the this template. That is, not all description showing in the TemplateData header, but in its homepage WP:TDmer (and this link mentioend in the TDheader text). IOW, documentation is in the template page/doc (same place as today), *not* on every TemplateData transclusion. -DePiep (talk) 16:02, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Why is that? There's more than enough space. But yes, I can add the WP: page to the header. (Hopefully I understood correctly.) I don't think I understood the last sentence. "TemplateData transclusion"? · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 16:24, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Because the section #TemplateData is solely to document the template it is documenting*. So Template:Infobox drug is for that infobox only. The TD-headertext needs only one line of info like "The parameter usage is at Parameter usage (see background)."
 * * Actually, this can be said for the whole documentation page, like Template:Infobox drug/doc. -DePiep (talk) 16:41, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd be opposed to that particular wording due to the flow of the English, but maybe a workaround can be arranged.
 * So, as it regards my proposal above, what specifically (in quotes) are you proposing should be different about it? Are you saying it should only say my text on a WikiProject page but say something else on templates, and if so what? Does your conception incorporate any optional parameters for extra info?
 * Preferably paste your suggestion in quote form like my one. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 18:17, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

arbitrary break

 * Thx. I'm very chaotic here, I know (that is because we both know something is wrong, I guess).
 * For now, my points are:
 * Leave source tool page and Bambers99 alone (we agree I guess)
 * Rename this template into something more reasonable, like: Template:Template parameter usage (crisp name, not too long not too dscriptive) (Note: current name [Template:Template error report] is misleading and incorrect, we agree?)
 * Template purpose and options and parameters are described in the /doc page, so Template:Template parameter usage/doc
 * When transcluded into a template doc, like in Template:Infobox drug/doc, yes there should be text as you propose. (but IMO: keep it short, one line). This is the text you are working in, I understand.
 * Also, here at enwiki we could use a page like WP:TDmer, so a WikiProject:TDmer (better named). -DePiep (talk) 22:30, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
 * , I know I have put a lot of strain in this thread/on your edits. Also, I saw your are reading my posts well :-). I don't want to overstress. Have a nice edit. -DePiep (talk) 22:34, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Oh great, I'm glad we agree this much then.
 * As per 2, I accept "Template parameter usage".
 * As per 3, of course, that will happen naturally.
 * As per 4, when you say "one line", does that mean a change to my proposal? It barely goes over the first line. However, I'll reiterate my current two options:
 * Option A: A parameter to hide the brackets (shown by default)
 * Option B: A parameter to show the brackets (hidden by default) (example at the bottom of /testcases)
 * I'm back to accepting option B (I had real trouble deciding for some reason).
 * As per 5, I'm not sure if I have an opinion on a WikiProject. It wasn't in my initial proposal or issue; I'm only concerned with a) the name and b) the contents of this template. However, I believe you are suggesting that such a WikiProject contain detailed information about this tool. If so, I would inform you that I have already proposed to to draft a more detailed documentation page for the tool, and they accepted, so I'd want to avoid redundancy and duplication as far as is possible. (This has already happened for the TemplateData tutorial, duplicated from mw:Help:TemplateData in 2014, and it's awful.) If such a page is created, the new documentation could be transcluded on to it. But like I said, I don't have an opinion just yet, I just want to get this template renamed and changed. However, the change at TemplateData header should happen first, to allow for a smooth transition.  · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 05:42, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Replies:
 * re re 1: ✅ (bot and bot operator: see User:Bamyers99/TemplateParametersTool).
 * re re 2: Then let's move this template to Template:Template parameter usage (minor different name OK with me; initiative is yours)
 * re re 3: Full documentation at Template:Template parameter usage/doc then, regular template doc. Also includes some explanation of the tool itself. BTW, can you give me an example of the File reporting? I've never met it; hard to find ;-).
 * re re 4: "one line" -> I meant to say, like: 'use one sentence, not four'. Deprecated words: monthly error report, TemplateParametersTool.
 * IMO, about the text in TemplateData you are working on:
 * (a) The sandbox examples in /testcases are too many (too complicated to use). If it helps, you can cut out (deprecate) parameter options I introduced.
 * (b): Which main sentence, with the external link, do you prefer? I suggest: "Click here to see parameter usage list for Infobox drug". (template name = option, default = "... for this template"; unchanged).
 * (c): more variants: do we really need those?
 * (d): a link to the tool now be a link to the template (two birds with one stone). Like: "... (more about this feature here)" = at template & /doc)". Again, there is no need to explain/describe the tool in that TD section.
 * re re 5: you're right, no separate WikiProject page. A shortcut like WP:TUD could exist (please), and should lead to this template page.
 * new 6: Another idea I have is: a separate template to ease the link https://bambots.brucemyers.com/TemplateParam.php?wiki=enwiki&template= -> monthly error report
 * new 7: About the edit process: would it be easier if the Move (template rename) would be done asap? Then #3 is fixed, and only #4 remains (your original issue here).
 * -DePiep (talk) 14:55, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Per 3, I had never seen it, that was based off the tool documentation and website itself. But here's an obvious example.

Per 4, I understand about "TemplateParametersTool", but my text does not contain "monthly error report". About "one sentence", I think it's necessary to mention that the data is updated monthly and based on the parameters listed in the TemplateData (not the template), so people don't get confused.

About a), as I understand, you are taking back some of your edits, i.e. you wish to revert some of the parameters you added in September 2019? If so, my opinion is that I don't mind the 5 configurations you added. It is up to you which of your parameters you remove.

About b), "data" is better than "list" (it's multiple lists on different pages containing different data). Also, your example would be missing an article ("a"/"the"). Your examples for parameters are slightly hard to follow, but I believe you want a parameter for changing the template name (which we already have, thanks to you). In which case, no change here.

About c), my edit only adds 1 parameter ("examples"). I don't believe this is bad or unnecessary.

About d), my argument was that some form of explanation was absolutely necessary, whether this was in the form of brackets or a link (I originally chose both). Your proposal with a link is good enough, but something needs to be there.

Per 5, you can create whatever shortcut you like; I have no objection to it. My issue was only with the template name and contents. Try to keep it in line with the template name, though (i.e., WP:TPU as the main one).

I don't think I understand 6. I think you wish to create a template that does the formatting for the link separately. You can do this, it's not part of my discussion. The phrase "monthly error report" should not be any part of the new template.

Per 7, everything needs to be done. We've spent a long time discussing. Ideally, I would have got some more editors involved, but if you are willing to carry out the rename, please go ahead.

After this, I suggest we try not to recommend any more changes and go with a proposal. I've updated the sandbox (testcases) according to the changes I agreed with. · • SUM1 • ·   (talk) 17:33, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

I will limit myself to point 4 here (other issues in separate sections): the new text in TemplateData header.

re 4a): existing options by parameter: I'm not taking them back, but if your aim makes it too complicated (covering all existing options), then you could remove some, to ease the change.

re 4b): "data" is correcter than "list", but also less inviting (non-tech people might be avoinding this link). "Lists"?

re 4c): add examples: see my general comment below.

re 4d): "some form of explanation was absolutely necessary" -- IMO that would be solved in a few words like "parameter usage", plus the template link. The doc page of a regular template is not the place to describe an other template.

re 4) in general: about new text for TDheader, in total. We both agree that current text is not correct nor helpful. My points:
 * A. It must contain a link to the tool page, monthly error report. The labeltext for this external link should be changed from current one; could have options.
 * B. And it must contain a link to the documentation/help page, likely this with appropriate labeltext.
 * These two links are the sole requirements, the rest is secondary importance. These two too should be the default text. Up to you to compose the wording and short sentence(s). Next, up to you to consider non-default options (like overwriting default texts).
 * C. However, I oppose adding any extra descriptive information to the TDheader. All wider descriptions, examples, explanation, detailing, specifications in the TDheader is not needed. It distracts & confuses from the main template, and is prone to more hairsplitting on how to write good documentation. In exceptional cases, the options could cover this.
 * Consider, that TemplateData itself is very short on describing the main template's job (here). Also, other tracking links are short (and do not even have a description in a templates doc: e.g. "".

Of course, I will not edit the sandbox because it is your initiative. Now if you want technical advice in this, like options, just ask.

-DePiep (talk) 10:07, 15 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Well, given all of that, how do you see the sandbox as it is now? · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 15:11, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
 * About "lists", I think the fact that you oppose all clarification of the tool means there shouldn't really be an issue with "data". It is a very standard term in English and most accurately describes what the tool provides. "Usage lists" just sounds wrong, but "usage data" is a standard term. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 15:14, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The sandbox now says, default:
 * "Click here to see parameter usage data for this template in the mainspace and file namespace&#32;(more about this feature here). This data is updated monthly and is based on the parameters listed in the TemplateData."


 * To me, that is too long and too much info. As I described extensively in my previous, 10:07 post: (C) Do not try to document it in the TDheader. (A, B) Doing essentials only = the two links; plus basic sentencing. It could be like:
 * "Click here to see parameter usage data for this template (help)."


 * -DePiep (talk) 16:02, 15 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Fine, but "Help" should be lowercase. And what about the parameters? Let's get this edit done as soon as possible. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 03:46, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, help must be in lc (done). Parameters:
 * From current set, I like this one: template (or synonym 1): when this is used, thext changes from "for this template" into "for Infobox film".
 * Option idea: not this link/text at all. For example, when the template is not to be used in mainspace (=then no reports exist). Add none?
 * Option idea: "add N-list link". N-list &rarr;
 * Text overhaul: are there situations when an editor wants to rewrite all this text? Then allow TDU
 * Examples, decriptive: As I wrote, I prefer not to add these. So no parameter needed.


 * Next: If you agree on new default text for TemplateData header, and its options, that can be in the sandbox. Probably the help page needs improvement too. -DePiep (talk) 11:59, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * About parameter yes: prefer to abandon this one. This template should be a stand-alone sentence. Better & easier no grammatical interaction with other parts in the TD header. -DePiep (talk) 16:53, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Template Move
Distilled from discussion(s) above:
 * I see consensus to move Template:Template error report to Template:Template parameter usage.
 * Reason: old name does not cover the essence. The tool reports all parameters (and just indicates those who are at error wrt the TemplateData definition. Example: Infobox drug : all parameters used in articles, "N" for non-defined parameters).
 * Will request a Requested moves. . -DePiep (talk) 15:40, 13 March 2020 (UTC)
 * WITHDRAWN: new setup needs rethinking. -DePiep (talk) 18:56, 13 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Restart: I am working on a separate, new template that basically only provides the external link. This template then can use it, and wrap any text around/into it, to be used in TemplateData header. IOW, the exact wording for TD is separated from the linking code.
 * This does not prejudice (prohibit/prescribe) any settting or option of this template.


 * This new template is located at Template parameter usage (!). Possibly, this template Template:Template error report then could move to subtemplate Template parameter usage/TDheader. -DePiep (talk) 16:11, 15 March 2020 (UTC)


 * Requested Technical move (uncontroversial) : Template:Template error report &rarr; Template:Template parameter usage. Anothjer step in improvements. Content & workings not affected; the improvement talks can continue freely. . -DePiep (talk) 10:23, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

New core template
I want to introduce Template parameter usage/sandbox-new as the "core template" to link to a TemplateParametersTool report page. Its main job is to provide the right external link, and a labeltext. So, for :. There are options too, like changing the laqbel. See ;-)

This template Template error report can use it to compose the TemplateData header (proper sentencing for that situation etc).

Todo: improve documentation/help; refine. Comments? -DePiep (talk) 18:00, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Fine, but what happened to renaming Template error report? It's still not an accurate name. I have my own ideas for other templates that would wrap the header, but it's an extraneous issue.
 * Please tell me finally what you think about the parameters in this template's sandbox, and let's get this edit and rename through. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 03:50, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Now it has to be Template parameter usage/sandbox-new wrapper or something. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 03:55, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * This new template only does the technical part: providing good links and allowing a labeltext.
 * Then, this template (you are working on) can compose the text to be used in ; inside best using this new Template parameter usage/sandbox-new (ease of link & options programming). All text is free to choose; no limits/requirements from this new template.
 * The TDheadertext have a default, and could have options (parameters) to customise (as is has today).
 * Yes, Template error report must be renamed (moved) for being the wrong name. Ideas:
 * Template parameter usage/wrapper -- could be more specific, IMO.
 * Template parameter usage/TDheader
 * TemplateData header/Template error report
 * re parameters & options: see above. -DePiep (talk) 10:24, 22 March 2020 (UTC)


 * I am preparing a Move of this template (getting rid of the "error" misnomer). For ease of development, textual edits can be made after that (be it in or in /newname).
 * I am contemplating this improvement: all text & options that are shown in can be managed within&through that TDheader template. That is, no need to have an extra, textual template, as this  currently does. -DePiep (talk) 22:36, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Urgent text improvement
I am proposing to make an urgent text improvement: the wording "Monthly error report"❌ is wrong and so much change. I propose to write "Parameter usage report" instead:

Nothing else will change, all other improvements can be made after this. No prejudice for future changes. Now in Template error report/sandbox -DePiep (talk) 19:24, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 29 March 2020
Please put all /sandbox code into the template.

Sole change: text "monthly error report"❌ into "Parameter usage report"✅.

The word "error" is incorrect here, the report lists all parameter usage.

Discussed on this page,, formulated & demo'ed at. Other changes not affected (still open for talk). - DePiep (talk) 11:31, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 21:48, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

"Click here" links need to be replaced
Here user has changed the default labeltext into "Click here". es says: Clearer text (should be advice rather than an order; not "the" report, a third-party, unofficial report; more introductory to unfamiliar users).

This is problematic, and not an improvement. First of all, these days we do not use hyperlink text "Click here" any more (more like 2006?). Second, the text is not "clearer". As for hair splitting: yes, it is the only monthly parameter usage report. Such claims should be proposed for discussion. was not adjusted.

I state the edit is controversial. It should be reversed, and one should propose changes up for discussion beforehand. -DePiep (talk) 19:19, 26 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Changed title "Unhelpful change" to "'Click here' links need to be replaced" to be clearer about the purpose of this section. Thisisnotatest (talk) 20:21, 25 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Blind people often have their software present them with a list of link text only. "Click here" links are opaque to them, forcing them to re-read an article. Better link text (for the page as of this comment) would be:


 * monthly parameter usage report for this template
 * monthly parameter usage report for Template:Infobox film
 * (second line occurs multiple times)


 * Further, with regard to:


 * lc=yes for lowercase "click": click here to see a monthly parameter usage report for Template:Infobox film.


 * and


 * label= default → Click here to see a monthly parameter usage report for Template:Infobox film.


 * it would be better for the default to be "none" or "for" and have the "Click here" functionality completely removed from this template.


 * Thisisnotatest (talk) 20:32, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Second half, proposals, are a bit chaotic. (User:Thisisnotatest please write out your text proposal;
 * 1. " Click here " text to be removed. Agree Rephrase & linked text tbd. New default text:
 * I prefer Proposal B: clear by itself, no need to mention "monthly" at this level.
 * -DePiep (talk) 23:09, 25 December 2022 (UTC)
 * -DePiep (talk) 15:25, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Options
 * demo:


 * current: ❌
 * target link: (https://bambots.brucemyers.com/TemplateParam.php?wiki=enwiki&template=Infobox+lighthouse)
 * Proposal A: Parameter usage report
 * proposal B:
 * proposal C: User:Thisisnotatest here

Planned change
I plan to make this change per WP:CLICKHERE. Please let me know if there are any concerns. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 06:36, 27 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I noticed the above thread. Given that my proposed change is actually a partial reversion, I will implement it now.
 * @SUM1, I'm disappointed. Making a bold change to a template-protected page and then not reverting it on request (or even engaging with the critique) falls below the expected standard for template editors. Hopefully this was just a missed ping/oversight of some sort. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 06:55, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I can say that I never saw the discussion you linked to. This may be because my notifications have been at 99+, because I generally stopped contesting reverts via my notifications, because it's stressful, but I didn't realise that that would stop me seeing tags on talk page discussions, and that in a case where I have editing rights and most other users don't this could end up problematic. I apologise for this. That being said, it was not a bold edit, because it was discussed extensively on this very talk page in one of the previous discussions. However, I have no issues with the changes that were discussed later on or the changes that were ultimately made. · • SUM1 • ·    (talk) 22:27, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * All good; thanks for the note. Cheers, &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 22:35, 27 November 2023 (UTC)