Template talk:Tree chart/Archive 1

Julio-Claudian family tree
To use this at Julio-Claudian family tree, I would need a dotted, dashed intersect tile for Augustus' adoption of Lucius and Gaius or else face a really convoluted adoption line. Such a problematic family tree. &mdash; Laura Scudder &#9742; 00:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I can see what you mean: you have a monster tree there! I'll see what I can do about other mixed tiles without making it too complicated. TimR (talk) 17:13, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, see what you can do with these:


 * TimR (talk) 18:24, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know if it's my browser (IE7), but those doesn't look right. The line on the left of the middle is dotted where it should be dashed while the one on the right is dashed and vice versa. -- Mr Stalker  ( talk ) 13:54, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, weird. I see the same thing with IE7, but it's fine with Firefox. I'll look into it. Thanks. TimR (talk) 14:41, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, nailed it. It seems to be a pretty stupid IE7 bug. If you give it this code:

&lt;table> &lt;tr> &lt;td style="border-bottom: 1px dashed black; border-right: 1px dotted black;"> Cell content &lt;/td> &lt;/tr> &lt;/table>
 * then both borders come out dotted. But if you change either of the colours, it's OK. I've fixed it by altering the colours of the buggy squares slightly to include #000001, which is different enough from black to escape the bug, but close enough to black not to notice. TimR (talk) 15:13, 25 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I think it's a big improvement for clarity.  Now I just have to figure out if there's any good way to hook Claudius Marcellus up to his parents on the other side of the tree.  Although, in my dreams there would be a series that had parallel lines on one side (so you could have multiple connections going into one side of a box rather than intersecting before the box) but that would be a lot of tiles.  &mdash; Laura Scudder &#9742; 18:06, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Expert chart maker needed
Every time I try to use this, it hardly ever turns out right. The connecting lines are never in the center of the tops or bottoms of the boxes. Could someone please contact me here or on my talk page about creating a chart for me that actually looks good. What I am trying to chart out is here. If anyone can help me, it would be appreciated. I have no clue what the differences are between the solid, dotted, or dashed lines mean. - LA @ 08:33, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, I've had a look at your page, and I think that I can see what you're trying to do. If I'm right, then using a chart probably isn't the easiest way to go: charts tend to be good if you want a whole load of boxes of a more-or-less standard size, and with lines connecting them. Perhaps you're better off with something in the form of a table, like this:


 * That still may not be quite what you want, if I've not understood what you're after. And feel free to change the colours to match your preferences. :-) TimR (talk) 12:16, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * What I am trying to show is "parentage." For example, the film Destroy All Monsters is considered a sequel to Varan the Unbelievable, Son of Godzilla, and Atragon. That would make those three films the "parents" of Destroy All Monsters. I would like to be able to clean up the film series lists, so if I can get a grip on this, I could weed the lists of series that are artificially created. - LA @ 21:12, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Accessibility
I've raised my concerns about the accessibility of this template. Please comment, and help to improve it. Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 19:43, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Importing Chart into another wiki?
Anyone know how to import Chart into another wiki?

I've tried export/import, but only succeed in generating a page that looks partially parsed:-

SCREENSHOT

If I hit edit to see the templates actually being used, there's only 2 listed instead of the ~150 that I expect:-

Any ideas where I'm going wrong? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bradley Milton (talk • contribs) 16:53, 6 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Check your import log to see what you actually got. On my last three attempts to import pages from here to another wiki, I did not get all. Latest involved about 90 pages, of which the import log records just six. Maybe someone can help me and Bradley Milton? Robin Patterson (talk) 08:01, 27 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I found I needed the ParserFunctions extension installed in my wiki in order to get the Chart template and its dependent templates (which I'd imported from wikipedia) to work. --Dennis J au (talk) 16:30, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm, tried importing this template and the dependent templates into a wikia wiki, which should have parser functions installed, but it isn't working for some reason. Is there anyone who has done a similar thing before and can help me out?109.123.31.174 (talk) 10:35, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, it works.. 109.123.31.174 (talk) 17:44, 28 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I imported the template and the modules (TreeChart and TreeChart/data) in my Wikia wiki:, and also familytree.js, still got the "Script Error" message after several attempts, and I don't know where the problem is. Are there still any dependent templates missing? Or the script is designed to be used only in Wikipedia?--Yhynerson1 (talk) 12:19, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Checking for a single character with ParserFunctions
Would be shorter and probably easier to follow. --Scandum (talk) 06:40, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Font size
I am working on Gilbert du Motier, marquis de Lafayette and Adrienne de La Fayette Family Tree, which uses this template/function. I am interested to learn if there is a global setting for decreasing the font size? Ohconfucius (talk) 07:49, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Scratch that. I found the answer: Ohconfucius (talk) 08:28, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

PDF
This template makes some nice-looking charts. But when I tried to generate a PDF from an article with a chart, the result was downright awful. I wonder if that can be improved in the template, or whether it's a general flaw of tables. --SlothMcCarty (talk) 10:24, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Problem with Chart on my First Article.
Dear Wikipedians, I'm Very new to Wikipedia. This is my First Wikipedia Article. It's my long time desire to write a Quality Article for Wikipedia. I have spend many days in learning & understanding codes & rules of Wiki'P before posting my article. Few of our fellow wikipedian ( Chevy ), ɳorɑfʈ  Talk! , Slon02 has reviewed my article & helped me to improve my article. I tried Chart in my article. Almost everything is working fine, but at the top of the chart i'm getting a kind of error mesg "Template:Chart/celltTemplate:Chart/celltTemplate:Chart/cellbTemplate:Chart/cellbTemplate:Chart/celltTemplate:Chart/cellbTemplate:Chart/celltTemplate:Chart/celltTemplate:Chart/cellbTemplate:Chart/cellb". please review my article & provide your 'valuable feedback'.'Pls help me..' Raj6644 (talk) 09:05, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems to have been resolved; current version now restored to fix offsetting workaround. -- xensyria T 20:54, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Migration from Familytree problem
Hi, please take a look at this diagram User:Sameboat/sandbox, it generates 2 unneeded templates Template:Chart/cellt and Template:Chart/cellb. I've already followed everything in the Migration from familytree section but still encounter this problem and cannot figure out how it happens. In addition, the diagram can be shown in English Wikipedia using Familytree (User:星光下的人/test) but not in Chinese Wikipedia, even I've already updated the syntax to be on par with EN version. I wonder if MediaWiki rations preprocessor node count differently between Wiki projects. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 14:03, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
 * See Template:Chart, that should help you fix the issue that I think you're referring to. ~ InferKNOX (talk) 15:33, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

How to add a "footer" row at bottom for footnotes?
I would like to add a single row at the bottom of the chart where I can right align a few footnotes. How can I do that? The general problem I am trying to solve is that some trees (like Template:Kim Jong-il family) are too big to give the whole family. The chart should note that it is selectively incomplete. Either a comment at the bottom to that affect or footnote markers to mark missing missing/spouses would be good. Jason Quinn (talk) 14:38, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I accomplished this through the usual "Reflist" methods. See Template:Kim Jong-il family for an example. Jason Quinn (talk) 18:46, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Rendering issues
Is it just me, or do a lot of the lines not quite connect? The solid top left corner (",") always seems to be missing a pixel in the corner, and the top right (".") intermittently (e.g. sometimes in preview mode) has the pixel below that corner missing as do the "T"s ("v"), both with Chart and Family tree. I'm using Windows 7, but have tried it in Chrome 26, Firefox 19 & 20 and Explorer 10; all display it the same way, which makes the whole thing look badly drawn and inconsistent. -- xensyria T 20:04, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Assistance required
I have translated the Spanish entry for Fabaceae into English but the family tree template has been updated since the Spanish article was first published and I have not the least idea how to use the new chart template. Can anyone update the following to get a family tree. The following gets the lines in place but none of the labels or boxes appear. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by English Fig (talk • contribs) 17:13, 18 November 2013‎ (UTC)


 * ✅. These are quite arcane templates, and there seemed to be two problems: the first was using single-letter label names (e.g. A, B, C), some of which are used to make dashed/dotted lines; the second was that there were some empty parameters, which added more of those redlinks above the chart. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 23:48, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Family trees of the ancient Chinese kings
Trying to get started over there. Family tree works fine but, being the nice guy I am, I was trying to respect the desire to migrate to using chart. Could someone please explain what the problem with the syntax below is, that is causing this thing to not even be able to display simple lines?

The kings of Qin claimed descent from "the granddaughter" of "a remote descendant" of the Emperor Zhuanxu, the grandson of the Yellow Emperor.

I've got the newest Chrome but, if you can't see it, this thing is just making boxes with no lines and then giving me the error messages "Template:Chart/cell v tTemplate:Chart/cell v bTemplate:Chart/cell ! tTemplate:Chart/cell ! b". — Llywelyn II   07:37, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Again, this can be a very temperamental template. Unlike most other templates, whitespace is crucial; in this case "v" and "!" had spaces around them, causing the template to look for the wrong subpage to transclude from (i.e. " ! " is different from "!", and currently doesn't exist). The exception is for the cell contents; here, in order to make the code readable, the convention is to use three letter codes with spaces either side; this makes them match three one character space/line cells, so you can easily see where to put the connectors when making a chart: see in the code below how "!" aligns with the middle of "DYE" below, and "v" above. Also, to keep cells on the far right from squashing (like "A bird" above), you have to extend the table on at least one line to go as far right as the furthest right cell; in this case I added three spaces after "!" on the middle line. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 09:56, 6 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, I could hope for a less tempermental template, but with such quick and helpful replies it almost doesn't matter. Thanks! =) —  Llywelyn II   14:01, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
 * See Template:Chart/doc. --  Gadget850talk 19:56, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Portraits in background
Is it possible to add an image to the background of a node to act as a portrait? If so, is there a way to also sort of...fade or make it less visible/opaque, so that overlying text can be clearly read? I would really be great if so, as I'd like to add it to some trees I made, starting with: Template:T'ai chi ch'uan lineage tree. Thanks. ~ InferKNOX (talk) 15:38, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Should be possible in theory. I'd try to work out how to add images in the way you want to table cells; once you've done that, add it as an option to each line of the code similarly to . Make sure though that you use the Template:Chart/sandbox until you've tested that it's stable (i.e. works won't mess up any existing charts), and also that you keep the style fitting as closely with the rest of Wikipedia and as encyclopedic as possible. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 22:36, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Lone boxes collapsing
Boxes without some sort of line next to them collapse, causing problems such as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roosevelt_family#Family_tree Vertical lines (solid, dashed) are not being treated as real connective elements, so this affects any parent or child elements only touched by straight lines. Adding any line except vertical next to an element causes the box to form correctly, but I can find no symbol that would make sense next to these lone boxes.--Martin Berka (talk) 17:40, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Not completely sure what you mean by collapse. Has this revision improved the Roosevelt example? If so, make sure that at least one other line extends to as far out as the furthest point of the box with spaces. For example:
 * Gives:
 * Gives:
 * Gives:
 * Gives:
 * Gives:
 * Gives:


 * But just by adding a space to the end of the middle line like so:
 * The columns are extended all the way to where we want Example 3 to end, hopefully preventing it from squashing:
 * The columns are extended all the way to where we want Example 3 to end, hopefully preventing it from squashing:
 * The columns are extended all the way to where we want Example 3 to end, hopefully preventing it from squashing:
 * The columns are extended all the way to where we want Example 3 to end, hopefully preventing it from squashing:
 * The columns are extended all the way to where we want Example 3 to end, hopefully preventing it from squashing:
 * The columns are extended all the way to where we want Example 3 to end, hopefully preventing it from squashing:


 * For a more extreme example of this, see "a bird" above. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 22:42, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't see this in Firefox 26 or IE11. --  Gadget850talk 20:00, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
 * This should be system independent, based on the ways tables are displayed. I've changed the example text to make it more pronounced: "c" should display as much smaller than "a" and "b" in the first example, and incorrectly aligned relative to the connector, but not the second example. This seems to be because chart uses tables, with connector and space "tiles" as fixed width cells (2em), and content "boxes" as three cells of width relative to their text. If there are fixed width tiles above or below a box, it guarantees a minimum width (of 6em, three times the fixed "tile" width), and in practice, when connectors are used, all content boxes except the ones on the far right will have this minimum, so space tiles should be added above or below to the furthest extent of the cell on the right to stop the furthest right from being smaller. Another way might be to add something to the code to make "boxes" have a minimum (but not fixed) width of 6em; not sure if there's a simple way to do this though. Then again I'm not completely sure this is what Martin Berka is talking about. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 01:35, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I assumed everyone could see it. The problem is vertical collapse, not horizontal. Every affected box, including every box in your last comment, looks like a black, horizontal bar to me (Chrome). The Roosevelts loook flat too, though some bars are now thicker than others.--Martin Berka (talk) 13:29, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you have any of the enabled? How does it look if you log out? --   Gadget850talk 13:33, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Ah wait, I see what you mean now; it's a problem with the latest version of Chrome, and should work with other browsers. Hopefully if enough people report they're having problems with it Google will get around to fixing it. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 19:09, 23 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Removing the 'cellpadding="0"' from Chart/start seems to fix the issue for Chrome. It doesn't seem to serve any useful purpose, since it will only influence the padding of text inside boxes, which probably should use the default padding of 1 anyway. --130.83.160.133 (talk) 12:24, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

There is clearly an on-going problem. On Nicomachean Ethics an IP editor has been trying to fix this problem by adding spaces, and things like this will continue to happen if there is no fix. This tree looked fine for a long time. I also see collapsed boxes there, and also even on the template page examples, and on examples on this page. (I use Chrome.)--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 10:40, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Let's try the IP editor's fix above. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 16:44, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Which fix? Just to confirm, I see collapsed boxes all over this talk page.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 13:45, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Removing 'cellpadding="0"' from Chart/start. I've made the change in the template's sandbox: see the Template:Chart/start/testcases for the difference. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 17:26, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * It will fix Chart for Chrome users at the cost of making all existing charts slightly larger; thinking more about it we could raise it at the technical Village pump or add a RfC to get more input before going ahead. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 17:48, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
 * It is also obsolete HTML. We should change:

the boxes are bigger than they were before. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 22:34, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Tried the above fix at another wiki and it did not help. Finally figured out the problem. Seems the editors have been using the template in way Chrome doesn't like, as you can see in a number of cases above on this talk page. Chrome wants to see table rows of equal numbers of cells, or you get the collapsed rows (both content box rows and border only rows). What I found worked was to make certain that all table rows have the exact same number of cells. Example below:
 * Example of incorrectly rendering template from talk page further up:


 * Example of the same template that will render correctly:

We have hundreds of these templates in use on our wiki and the fix is working well. Hope this helps.108.74.21.38 (talk) 02:32, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Template talk:Family tree --  Gadget850talk 03:19, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Bug: Straight Vertical bars are not supported
Example: Template:Ender's Game chronology chart. I'm not sure when this occured, but it's sufficently breaking to cause me to re-architect the entire template/display to make it work. I'd like to have the straight vertical pipes in all formats be restored. Hasteur (talk) 19:25, 21 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Using Chrome? See above. I'm starting to think we should try to get Wikimedia (or whoever) to petition Google to fix this. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 22:10, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The documentation link was updated in February, and the edit before that was in 2012. --  Gadget850talk 22:20, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

- Fixed. קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 04:00, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Error driving me absolutely batty...
Hey; I've been trying to update the Nerva-Antonine family tree template, adding figures, but it keeps giving me this Template:Chart/celltTemplate:Chart/cellb error message. I know that's caused by too much or too little white space between | |, but I've gone over the template with a fine-tooth comb and can't find anything resembling what would make this pop up. Could someone PLEASE help me? :-S Stolengood (talk) 04:32, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Fixed by changing  to  . Updated the error documentation.
 * Other recommendations:
 * Use small instead of so that the font size is the same across browsers
 * Using small caps for deified will not render any meaning for screen readers
 * --  Gadget850talk 09:42, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you. However, the small caps for deified was there before I started updating; I've left that as is to preserve consistency. Thank you, though! :-) Stolengood (talk) 16:27, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Changed the small caps from to smallcaps (though this doesn't address the accessibility issues raised). Also, I've just noticed that this chart needs connectors that aren't currently available (left line dashed, bottom and right lines solid, no top line above Marcus Aurelius and Faustina Minor, and the opposite above "two infant sons" and Lucius Verus). Since each connector essentially consists of 4 lines, each one of four styles (none, solid, dashed or dotted)—making 256 possible combinations—I wonder if rather than adding extra arbitrary symbols for new connectors as they occur, it would be a better idea to add a "custom connector" option, perhaps 4-numerical digits, representing the four lines in turn (top, bottom, left, right) each of which can be either 0 (none), 1 (solid), 2 (dashed) or 3 (dotted)? The downside would be that it would break the fixed width of the chart code (though this is often ignored/not noticed anyway), but this could be fixed by adding extra spacing to the lines above/below as appropriate, and would allow complete control, without complicating the docs too much further. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 17:27, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Requirement of Colored Lines
Is there any way we could have a parameter in the template to dispaly a connecting line in a particular color ?, if there is, it will help the editors to define complex and special relations between different tree nodes. At present we have only three type of lines (continued after the illustration) (continued from top) and their respective horizontal and vertical combinations. It will be better, if we could assign colors to those to distinguish a new relation between the nodes, as a start it will be good, if we could have at least the basic colors. Kindly take this into consideration. (harith (talk) 03:27, 15 July 2014 (UTC))

Converting a family tree from Template:Family tree to Template:Chart
Hello

I'm trying to convert to chart by writing chart instead of familytree. I tried it manualy, or using familytree.js. . The last two columns are disappearing, with the exception of the last three boxes. I don't know how to fix this. Can someone, please, help me. What should I do for my chart to appear in a normal, complete, way? Thank you. --Daduxing (talk) 09:12, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Space rules
I get the impression that spaces are required/forbidden in the input parameters. If so, could that be described in the documentation? -DePiep (talk) 20:25, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

In "tag=label" (if I may) tags can't be single letters or end with numerals(?)
In converting Ptolemaic_dynasty from family tree to chart I (think :-) I had to change:
 * the "P13=Ptolemy XIII Theos Philopator" constructs to "P13xx=..." (any arbitrary letter but "xx" will be easier to replace later.)
 * also the "P=..." to PP=...".

If that could be fixed or documented that would save a lot of conversion time.

Thanks. Saintrain (talk) 22:07, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Summary parameter
The documentation say that Chart/start accept a  parameter but in the code of the template  the only parameter used is. The parameter summary is present only in the older Familytree/start template.--Moroboshi (talk) 08:35, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Removed from documentation.  is obsolete in HTML5. --   Gadget850talk 17:43, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Text align
Is there a proper way of changing the text justification by row or for the entire chart? I have a chart that I would like to have the text left justified rather that centered. Here is part of the chart I am working on in my sandbox. I also seem to not have a grasp on how extra cells affect the box width. I would like the boxes in the 2nd-3rd rows to fit the widest text but there is extra padding there.


 * Comment: Instead of, use  . The template has CSS that makes it work across more browsers. --   Gadget850talk 18:46, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, but what about the alignment and other parameters? Is there somewhere this is all documented?  I  have not been able to find anything.  Nyth83 (talk) 20:07, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I played around with this a bit. You just need to add the style to . I updated your example with  . --   Gadget850talk 21:06, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
 * If a style is going to be used frequently, we could add it as a subtemplate so you don't have to include all that markup. For example, chart/boxstyle1 could be set to.
 * That's what I was looking for, I just couldn't find any documentation of the correct format for the tag and parameter. I tried bunch of different things that are used in table but nothing worked.  How did you know what to put in?  Where is that documented?  I still would like to be able to put some of the formatting in one place for the entire chart to override the defaults rather that having to have it on every line.  I am still looking for an explanation for the extra 'white space' that appears in the boxes after the first row. Nyth83 (talk) 22:34, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't see extra white space in Firefox. Are you running Chrome? --  Gadget850talk 23:18, 12 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, Chrome. I am also having a problem with the indenting increasing with each generation also. could you look at my sandbox and see what you think? User:Nyth83/sandbox I must be doing something wrong. Nyth83 (talk) 00:03, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Weird, I looked at in in IE11 and in renders a bit different. I see more whitespace on some lines and less on others. The indentation is about the same with the offset on the third and fourth generations being more than on the second. I understand that there is a 3x tile system underlying the boxes so I am guessing that the length of the text lines and the font size must be affecting this. Nyth83 (talk) 00:13, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, I see on the template page that there is a statement  The template also accepts an optional style parameter that can be used to set CSS styles for the entire diagram.   This see to imply that putting   in the start template would left align the text for the entire chart but this does not seem to be the case.  I also found this page about CCS style parameters.  What can I use in the chart/start template that will actually affect the entire chart? Nyth83 (talk) 00:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I figured it was Chrome, as it is known to have white space issues.
 * Looks like the table rows are hard coded to . I will look at this later. --   Gadget850talk 00:56, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Finally figured out a way to fix the text wrap and box width issues. Just added the table-layout style with a fixed width in the chart start template


 * You can see the fixed chart at Kohler family of Wisconsin  Nyth 63  05:10, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Alignment
Most charts I have seen are centered, and many are using obsolete markup. The proper way to center a chart is to use which is not very user friendly.

In the sandbox I have added an align parameter that defaults to center no align:

And can be set to left with

Or to right with

Or to center with

--  Gadget850talk 15:24, 5 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I have been though 100s of pages recently using my account user:PBS-AWB (and I have about 300 to go). In no cases has a chart been aligned using (it is I who has been adding ). This seems to be for three reasons:
 * They like it as it is
 * They did not know there were options
 * The "chart" is wrapped up in a template using and often the tree will expand to full the whole area eg Template:Rosewell family tree or it has been set to occupy the left as in Template:Family of Michelle Robinson Obama


 * So I think that the change is a good idea but you may need to advertise it more widely as it may cause problems in templates such as Template:Family of Michelle Robinson Obama, and I have no idea of the impact on more complicated constructions such as Template:Ender's Game chronology. -- PBS (talk) 18:44, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * {{search link|insource:/\.\{\{ahnentafel/i|(search all)|ns=all}} shows only 168 uses of, so I changed the sandbox to default to no alignment to match current use. Axamples above updated. --  Gadget850talk 23:45, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Compare {{tlx|Ender's Game chronology chart}} and {{tlx|Ender's Game chronology chart/sandbox}}. --  Gadget850{{sup| talk}} 23:49, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I did not know one could do regular expression searches in the search box thanks for the information --PBS (talk) 13:25, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, and I added parameters to {{tl|search link}} since some searches (for {{tag|pre|o}} for example) are mangled with unnamed parameters. --  Gadget850{{sup| talk}} 14:16, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think you search was accurate because there may be more than one space between center and ahnentafel, running the same search but with " *" in place of the "." returns over 4,000 hits (a search on \{\{ahnentafel alone  returns just over 6,000 hits so anout 2/3 are centred using ). I suggest that we go for the centre option but be ready to revert. (and it gets away from having to misspell centre {{(:}}) -- PBS (talk) 13:38, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * That should have been {{tl|chart}}: {{search link|insource:/\.*\{\{chart/i|(search all)|ns=all}} which gives only 193 uses. --  Gadget850{{sup| talk}} 14:16, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
 * That is because there are relatively few {{tlx|chart/start}} in article space. Many still use {{tlx|familytree/start}} (190 in article space and 837 in templates). I make it that 167 out of 232 are preceded with a lead, and I still have 215 pages go go in my AWB search (may of those will be to articles that include transcludes to templates) but the others will be converted). As most of the templates are already using with or without explicit centring but nearly all set to 100% width, I do not see that as an issue to default to "center". -- PBS (talk) 13:38, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * 2,534 uses of {{tlx|family tree}}, 10 with {{tag|center|o}} and 2 using {{para|style|margin: 1em auto;}}. --  Gadget850{{sup| talk}} 14:46, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * 7,666 uses of {{tlx|ahnentafel-compact5}} alone, 212 with {{tag|center|o}} for the Ahnentafel series. --  Gadget850{{sup| talk}} 14:57, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

{{od}}I have finished going through the {{tl|chart/start}} in article space. In article space about 200 now include centre out of a total of about 300 instances. The only case where I have seen that anything other than center would be a problem is in AVATAR (MUD) and I am not sure what the result with that would be if any as I have not looked at it too closely. I think we can put aside {{tl|familytree/start}} as that is not an issue. There are only about 100 ahnentafel4 a handful of ahnentafel3 and no ahnentafel2 in article space. I am no sure how you come to you conclusion that there are only 212 with {{tag|center|o}}, could you please show me the search you used because I get 1000s. -- PBS (talk) 19:34, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * What regex are you using? --  Gadget850{{sup| talk}} 19:44, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I tried a whitespace  but it does not seem to work for   so I have used    as an alternative
 * {{search link|insource:/\{\{ahnentafel-/i|ahnentafel}} -- 7,570
 * {{search link|insource:/\[^\{]*\{\{ahnentafel-/i|center followed by ahnentafel}} -- 4,180
 * {{search link|insource:/\[^\{]*\{\{ahnentafel-compact5/i|center followed by ahnentafel-compact5}} -- 4,085 (so that means about 100 compact 2,3,4)
 * {{search link|insource:/\{\{chart\/start/i|chart/start}} -- 238
 * {{search link|insource:/\[^\{]*\{\{chart\/start/i|center followed by chart/start}} --200
 * -- PBS (talk) 01:27, 9 April 2015 (UTC)


 * Is it still the propper way to center a chart using {{tlx|chart/start|style{{=}}margin: 1em auto;}}?, which is not only not very user friendly, but seems to add extra margin on top and beneath each box, which drags the chart unnecessarily. Clockworkske (talk) 18:59, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Had not noticed, but it does. Use {{para|style|margin: 0 auto;}}. Updated in sandbox with {{para|align|center}}. --  Gadget850{{sup| talk}} 19:29, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * {{done}} --  Gadget850{{sup| talk}} 12:59, 22 April 2015 (UTC)