Template talk:US county navigation box/Archive 1

Changes to US state version of this template
Earlier today, Template:US state navigation box (upon which the county version is based) was reverted to its state as of March 9th, thereby removing the "v•d•e" and "[show]/[hide]" links. To read or participate in the discussion, visit Template talk:US state navigation box. -- Zyxw 04:44, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Not much need for the map
It looks kind of bad in California because of the shape of the state (look at Orange County, California). It makes the title bar abnormally tall. Wouldn't an article of a state's county already have a map so why do we need it twice? --MarsRover 06:32, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * As I posted here, I have proposed to use to tweak this template so the maps are disabled for states like California. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 21:23, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * If there is a consensus to remove the map from the title bar, the county navigation boxes could be implemented with Template:Navbox generic. It is designed to handle templates that use group headings, similar this one. An example can be seen at Template:Leon County, Florida. -- Zyxw 07:11, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ideally, I would prefer another type of image there in the corner, since the CA maps do not appear too well on a thumbnail scale, especially the smaller counties in terms of area. Since the county seals are fair use. and thus not allowed on templates, my second choice would be to have individual images for each individual county's boundaries. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 14:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with Zzyzx11, and don't feel there is a consensus to remove the image completely from the title bar. Its a common element that county navboxes contain whether they have been converted to this template or not.  The idea of using maps of the individual counties is a good alternative.  VerruckteDan 21:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Title bar text
I've added back the original text "Municipalities and communities of" to the title bar. I think this text is vital to keep the purpose of these navigation boxes in focus. Without such focus I foresee lots of other topics being placed into the navboxes, making them exceeding long and reducing their effectiveness as a navigation tool. VerruckteDan 16:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The reason why I removed that phrase in the first place is that there seems to be a word wrapping bug in Firefox on 800x600 display monitors where the second line is not completely centered. I cannot remember the exact guidelines (I can only remember the second paragraph of WP:GTL), but we should make it so the layout is easy to read on those users who still use the 800x600 monitor display resolution setting. And since Firefox is becoming more widely used, my compromise is to decrease the font size, rather than revert your edit so the phrase is hidden again. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 17:35, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, because of the length of the phrase, a newline break may have to be inserted between "communities" and "of" instead.Zzyzx11 (Talk) 17:40, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The solution may be related to why Template:*mp was created, or may be related to Template talk:Navigation. Further investigation is needed. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 18:37, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The line break is fine and addresses the problem with Firefox. I'm always gonna try it with a smaller text or maybe without the bold, so that the county name stands out a bit more.  VerruckteDan 19:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

2 county seats
I used this to create a Template:Hinds County, Mississippi template which is causing me issues because Hinds County, Mississippi has 2 county seats, Jackson and Raymond. Since the template auto-wikilinks the seat, if I put "Jackson and Raymond", it becomes Jackson and Raymond, Mississippi. Any way to solve this issue? Thanks. --  ALLSTAR    ECHO  13:59, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a parameter "seat2" for counties with 2 seats. I've made the change to the template.  VerruckteDan 15:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you! --  ALLSTAR    ECHO  16:34, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

County seat, edit request
Please change the following
 * above =

to this in order to account for Alaska having "Borough seats" and Vermont having "Shire towns"
 * above =

Thanks. VerruckteDan 22:11, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Done, hopefully it works because I have not tested this yet. Cheers. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 22:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Parentheses?
Template:Rutland County, Vermont and other county templates in Vermont (and, I'd guess in other New England states and New York) have a problem: the name of the county seat/shire town includes parentheses. Could someone who knows how to code templates add some sort of parameter to eliminate the (city) in the header, so that instead of

it displays the shire town as "Rutland"? Nyttend 18:29, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Can the template simply be changed so that it doesn't wikilink automatically? That would be the simplest solution and would allow for flexibility such as adding comments as well. If one insists that the template automatically do the linking for us, one could use the code:

,_ where "area" would refer to a municipality type (e.g. city, town, village) and "ctdab" would refer to a county disambiguator. --Polaron | Talk 03:09, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Should the county navigation boxes be required to organize contents based on obscure Census Bureau jargon?
I'm looking for some input here on the navigation box in Category:Michigan county navigational boxes begun as a discussion on my talk page User talk:Bkonrad. Some (not all) of the boxes distinguished between Census-designated places and other unincorporated communities. I updated them to more consistently list any uniquely named unincorporated populated places within the county as communities. I don't see how listing the communities under the obscure jargonish label of CDP (or even the expanded title of census-designated places) is very helpful for users. For persons who do not deal with demographic data on a regular basis, the distinction between a CDP and any other unincorporated place is insignificant. older ≠ wiser 19:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * In some contexts it may be useful to make the distinction, but I agree that it's probably not useful in a navigation template. CDPs are unincorporated communities, and I see no benefit in having them separated out in the template rather than being listed with the other unincorporated communities. Omnedon (talk) 02:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * For these navigation templates, there shouldn't be a need for separating out CDPs. It could possibly be beneficial in some states/counties but definitely not all, particularly urbanized counties. For example, the Census Bureau tends to lump all the communities of an urbanized MCD into a single CDP regardless of the presence of distcint named communities within it. In the end, my preference is to not separate CDPs as they are functionally not any different from other unincorporated communities. --Polaron | Talk 03:16, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. It's unlikely that a casual user will know (or care) that the U.S. Census designates one unincorporated town differently from another.  Separating out CDPs into their own section is also rather misleading -- it suggests that they're something exclusive from incorporated or unincorporated communities, when in fact (by definition) all CDPs are always unincorporated communities. Huwmanbeing  &#9728;  &#9733;  12:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the input. There is also discussion going on at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. counties, which is probably a better forum for this. I had forgotten about that project when I first started this thread. older ≠ wiser 13:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

other relevant infos
There is more to a county than just the cities/towns it contains. Please make standard a row for "Geography" so that lakes, rivers, etc can be listed as well. ⇔ ChristTrekker 18:03, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This template is intentionally limited to municipalities and communities to a reasonable size and hence keep them useful as navigation aids. If its expanded beyond to geographic feature, where do you draw the line?  Other editors will want to add people, or history, etc.  Links to that information can be included on the county's article.  This template is intended to serve as a way to navigate through the communities a given county, no more, no less.  VerruckteDan (talk) 22:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with Dan here. There is indeed much more to a county than just the settlements within its borders; however, not everything in a county has its own separate article, and in any case, the settlements are probably the most important elements of a county when it comes to article navigation.  The various other aspects of a county are usually described in the county's article.  Omnedon (talk) 00:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The other option is to create another template, like Template:County of Los Angeles that someone created for topics related to Los Angeles County, California. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:09, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * If the intention is to keep the template small/tight as an aid to utility, why was my space saving change reverted? Wasting screen space is also detrimental to good navigation. ⇔ ChristTrekker 21:30, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The size of the map image is a different topic than the scope of a template. I think the important issue for map images is to have a consistent size across the templates within a state.  Sometimes, that may result in some "wasted" screen space, but I think that's not a huge issue.  VerruckteDan (talk) 19:44, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

"view • talk • edit" screws up centering in title
Compare with, on a page using both (e.g. Carroll County, Maryland). The centering of the two lines of title text (e.g. "Municipalities and communities of Carroll County, Maryland" and "State of Maryland Annapolis (capital)") is affected in one case (county) by the v-d-e text and not in the other (state). It might have something to do with the use (or non-use) of, or maybe its just related to the use of columns, but regardless, could someone experienced in templates fix the county version? Thanks. 67.100.125.237 (talk) 03:00, 25 January 2009 (UTC).
 * This screw-up is seen on Firefox (haven't tried other browsers). A section above seems to be referring to the same issue.  67.100.125.237 (talk) 03:04, 25 January 2009 (UTC).
 * I dont see any problem is Firefox, Chrome or IE. &mdash; CHAN  DLER #10 &mdash; 07:30, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I see the centering problem in firefox 3.03 when javascript is turned off. State of Maryland looks fine with javascript off or on.  I'm surprised at the inconsistency between the two but when the workaround is simply to turn on javascript support I don't see much of a reason to worry about it.  72.244.206.170 (talk) 05:44, 26 January 2009 (UTC).

Add a microformat
Please add an adr microformat, by changing:

to:

Thank you. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:08, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:43, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Tested and working, thank you. That's a great many microformats added to Wikipedia, all in one go - anyone know how many article-space transclusions this template currently has? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:14, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

New map_alt parameter
editprotected

Please install to add support for a new map_alt parameter, which can be used to specify alternative text for the map, for use by visually impaired readers (see WP:ALT). I've documented this new parameter in Template:US county navigation box/doc and tested it in Template:US county navigation box/testcases. Thanks. Eubulides (talk) 06:37, 9 November 2009 (UTC)


 * ✅ —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 13:38, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

New map_link parameter
editprotected Further work on the accessibility review of the featured article candidate Denton, Texas has shown the need for a map_link parameter to go with the map_alt parameter added in the previous thread. Can you please install ? I've documented it and tested it already. Thanks. Eubulides (talk) 18:17, 9 November 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 00:51, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Reducing title's double line into single line
I propose reducing the title of this template to go from two lines to one line. This template often looks funny when combined with other navboxes, as nearly all other navboxes use the standard title font size, and have their title on one line. That this one uses two lines with a slightly larger font size for the county and state names is rather ugly to me (and rather pointless).

Here's an example of what this change would look like:

What do others think of this change? Note that I proposed something similar here for state navigation boxes. --CapitalR (talk) 09:34, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I like the change. It now matches other infoboxes. --MarsRover (talk) 22:29, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:57, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I was bold and went ahead and made the change. I'm going to leave the state one alone for now to wait for more discussion.  --CapitalR (talk) 04:14, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Fix microformat
(discussed above) broke the template's ADR microformat by removing. Please restore that class to the span, and restore the closing. No visible changes are involved. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 15:05, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Can I just add  to the existing span inside of the title's wikilink?  Or do I need to create a new span that wraps the wikilink?  --CapitalR (talk) 18:33, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ Restored to same places as old edit - I left out the style="font-size:110%; font-weight:bold;" bit that was in the original span, hope that's what you want.  Ron h jones (Talk) 23:20, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
 * That's fine; thank you. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 09:16, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Colonies Chris, 19 March 2011
This template has some fiddly code to create a pair of links of the form county, state. But there's no benefit to this, and it goes against the recommendation in the MoS. (See WP:LINK - "When possible, avoid placing links next to each other so that they look like a single link"). It would be simpler and clearer for the reader just to create a single county, state link. It also avoids creating a superfluous link to the state - if anyone wants a link to the state (which isn't very likely, as they're already down to county-level detail), it's already available in the article in which this template is embedded, or in the article about the county.

Colonies Chris (talk) 16:13, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Chris: Could you check that Template:US county navigation box/sandbox behaves as you intend? Everyone else: are there any objections to this change? &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:28, 21 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me. Another beneficial change would be to tighten the links City and Borough to City and Borough . Colonies Chris (talk) 00:52, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Those links are not actually hardcoded here. They are specified on the individual county navboxes, using the titleX parameters, so for example Template:King County, Washington and Template:Los Angeles County, California can link directly to more specific articles like List of cities in Washington and List of cities in Los Angeles County, California, respectively. Another reason is that a number of counties do not even have cities or boroughs, especially a number of rural counties across the country, so it does NOT make sense to have those generic links hardcoded here. Instead, you are going to have to do what you appear to have been doing in the past few days: changing each individual navbox. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:31, 22 March 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks for explaining that. (I assume you meant "does not make sense to have those generic links hardcoded here."?). Colonies Chris (talk) 09:14, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. My mistake. Zzyzx11 (talk) 03:12, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Re-enabling. My original request met with no opposition, please go ahead with it. Colonies Chris (talk) 23:20, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. Apologies - I thought you had decided the change here was unnecessary. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:27, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Colonies Chris (talk) 18:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Title bar link color
For example, the above and several other navboxes related to Massachusetts use the parameter. Please see Boston, five navboxes use the color scheme. However, on each of the 14 county templates the default link color against that dark blue is horrible and probably unreadable by a portion of the readers. Is a parameter such as  possible? Thanks – Sswonk (talk) 19:06, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I fixed the bug in the code. It was originally suppose to display the color specified by the  parameter, just like what it does with the links in the row listing the county seat. Cheers. Zzyzx11 (talk) 02:25, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Sswonk (talk) 05:35, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Add 'USA' to displayed title
Please change

to:

thereby adding "USA" to the end of the displayed title. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:49, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Any particular reason to include the country? Overprecision, IMO, and does not add any additional disambiguation on the articles that use this template. Many similar country subdivision navboxes like Template:Chongqing, Template:Posavina Canton and Template:Communes in Aisén Region don't list the country either. Zzyzx11 (talk) 18:02, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Clarification for the benefit of readers not familiar with US geography, consistency with similar templates which do include countries (e.g. navbox for counties of Romania, e.g. Dolj County ) and emission of improved metadata. I'll be adding (or requesting addition where protected) to other templates in due course. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:29, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Added. I agree regarding the metadata purposes. However, if there are any objections to the other reasons, we may end up having to set the CSS setting to . Cheers. Zzyzx11 (talk) 18:44, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I've changed it to US. I too think it is redundant. Also the metadata. The state is disambiguated if it is Georiga, we are drowning in metadata that hardly anyone uses. Any agent that can't deduce one of these articles is about a place in the US is already an epic fail. Rich Farmbrough, 13:19, 11 January 2012 (UTC).

Adding a second seat?
Massachusetts has several dual-seat counties. Essentially counties are broken into one or more districts. Is there Anyway to have a "Seat2" attribute added? For example: Middlesex County, Massachusetts. Main Seat is in Cambridge, MA; and a secondary seat for the Northern District is in Lowell, MA. CaribDigita (talk) 22:45, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks like 'seat2' already exists as a parameter and should work for you. Let me know if it doesn't, and we can make changes as needed. --CapitalR (talk) 01:53, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I have made the changes on Template:Middlesex County, Massachusetts. Zzyzx11 (talk) 02:51, 12 October 2012 (UTC)