Template talk:User no

Nynorsk/bokmål and "skribent"
I have now taken this template entirely out of my user page, since I have the nb and nn one. Wouldn't it make sense to have on template that says: This user speaks natively Norwegian, and prefers nynorsk/bokmål? That avoids the awkward term "skribenten" ("redaktør" would be a better term, anyway), and that way I don't have to have two or three boxes in my userspace. We could even have one that says we prefer one but master both - I don't know, it seems a bit convoluted now. In any event, I'm changing "skribent" to "redaktør," at least for this template. --Leifern 14:17, 8 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It would indeed be nice to have a single template which said for example "Denne redaktøren har norsk som morsmål og bruker " with the user supplying "nynorsk", "bokmål", or "både bokmål og nynorsk" when calling the template. The problem with that is that everyone using Template:User no will have to change the way they use it, and there will be a lot of broken home pages until that is done.
 * As a sort of middle way, we could use Template:User no as a general template for Norwegian, to be used by those who have no strong preferences either way or who don't want to identify their form as either bokmål or nynorsk. Those who have a specific preference for bokmål or nynorsk will be able to use Template:User nb or Template:User nn.  Template:User no-1 and so on can be organised in the same way. This is what I had in mind when I started making the changes. -- Arvind 15:12, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * There are thirty-something users who integrate this template into their userpage. It might make more sense to change all the nn and nb templates to say "Denne redaktøren har norsk som morsmål og bruker bokmål/nynorsk." I think this is consistent with what you're saying. Of course, there are those of us who feel bilingual...:-)--Leifern 18:15, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Is there an error in the Norwegian (native speaker) babel-box entry?
(Copied from the Village pump (technical))

I noticed that all the users listed as native norwegian speakers, i.e., were presented with the following text: "Denne redaktøren har norsk som morsmål." A word-by-word translation to English is "This editor has Norwegian as [his/her] native language". In Norwegian, "Redaktør" implies administrative privileges, and is much closer to "Administrator" than to "User". Being a native Norwegian speaker myself, I was confused, first thiking: user:gisle is an administrator? Well, that makes sense because he is a well known and respected computer specialist. But when I browsed the other users, I realised that this was probably a mistake. Could somebody please have a look into this, and consider changing the text to "Denne brukeren har norsk som morsmål."? --vibo56 08:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Why don't you change it yourself? It's a wiki, after all. Or you can at least propose the change on the talk page. Template:User no. pfctdayelise (translate?) 09:17, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Done, and thanks for the tip. I didn't know how to get there. --vibo56 09:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hello Vibo! If you take a look at the discussion just above, "redaktør" was chosen after discussion, because the template then has a form which is valid in both nynorsk and bokmål, and the "no" template should obviously be neutral (bokmål and nynorsk have nb and nn respectively).  I've changed it back - if you don't like "redaktør" (which, if you think about it, doesn't have that much a stronger connotation of administrative responsibilities than "editor" does in English) feel free to change it to something else, as long as it works in both forms.  -- Arvind 17:09, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem, I'll consider changing my babelbox entry to Template:User_da instead. Less confusing to newcomers, and almost true, historically speaking :-) --vibo56 22:25, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * You could, of course, also use Template:User_nb. Or even better, suggest something better than "redaktør" (I'd originally used "skribent", but that didn't find favour). -- Arvind 23:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Using Babelbox entries as a soap box
To readers who are not familiar with the difference between the bokmål and nynorsk flavours of Norwegian: The discussion above revolves around a single vowel: "User", in bokmål, is "Bruk e r". In nynorsk, however, the spelling is "Bruk a r". To some Norwegians, this is a difference so important that it necessitates finding words that have the same spelling in nynorsk and bokmål, no matter whether they convey the meaning of "user" or not. At the time of writing (2. June 2006), the choice has fallen upon "Redaktør", which, as stated above, means "Editor", i.e. a person with administrative powers far beyond those of a mere journalist. In every language in which I am able to understand the word (except Norwegian), a contributor to the Wikipedia presents himself/herself as a user :
 * bruger
 * usuario
 * utente
 * användare
 * utilisateur
 * Benutzer
 * brúkarin
 * gebruiker.

Not so in the Template_no, however.

Then there is the option of using the templates Template:User_nb and Template:User_nn, which do indeed use the word "user". To each of these templates, however, there is attached a statement about the user's preference that I consider totally irrelevant to wikipedia users. Whoever is interested, will see from the vowel usage whether the user prefers bokmål or nynorsk. To the six billion people (give or take a few) who couldn't care less, this statement is simply noise. This is a political statement, aimed at a Norwegian audience. This is using the babelbox as a soap box. Personally, I'm really quite indifferent as to which of the templates Template:User_nb and Template:User_nn I would have chosen, if only the template authors could have informed the reader about the user's nationality/native language, without attaching a political statement. Now, I have the choice of either (a) presenting myself as an editor of the Wikipedia, which as documented above may be confusing to newcomers, or (b) presenting myself as a person who favours one flavour of Norwegian above the other. I know that this is a wiki, and I know that I could simply delete the "og behersker bokmål/nyorsk" political statement from the template. However, I also know that such a deletion would have been reverted quickly, and I don't want to engage in an edit war. I have therefore chosen to use the Template:User_no-3 template, since that conveys that I'm reasonably fluent in Norwegian, and that I am a user of the Wikipedia, and not an editor/administrator. I realise that I am posting this at the risk of attracting the attention of those with strong opinions on the Bokmål/Nynorsk issue to the User_no-3 template. If you are feeling the urge to change it, please don't. Leave it as an option to those who want to take a neutral position in the "Norwegian language war". --vibo56 22:15, 2 June 2006 (UTC) Updated --vibo56 17:58, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * If you feel that strongly about it, feel free to change it back to "bruker" or "brukar" or any other term you choose. The original idea was to prevent conflicts, not exacerbate them. -- Arvind 18:19, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Skribent/Redaktør/Brukar/Bruker
Thank you, Arvind, for your comment. My main concerns are to make sure that the template does not:
 * 1) explicitly state a preference for either nynorsk or bokmål.
 * 2) confuse newcomers, by using a surrogate word for "user" which might suggest that the user is an administrator.
 * 3) confuse users who are learning Norwegian.

Your suggestion, "skribenten", although perhaps a bit awkward, succeeds at 1. and 2., but may be confusing to users who are learning Norwegian. I considered changing it to "brukaren", but even this may be confusing to learners of Norwegian, since in the majority of cases, these will be learning bokmål. I am left with either "brukeren" or "brukeren/brukaren". I would be happy with either of these.

While writing this, I discover that an anonymous user 194.97.49.42 has already changed it to "brukeren". I'll leave it as it is, and hope that whoever wants to change it reads this discussion before doing so. --vibo56 14:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)