Template talk:Video game release/Archive 1

Example, flags
Does anyone want to include syntax or write an example for the template? Also, did this template use country flags in the past? I've seen some edits changing flags to text and vice versa – anyone know more, and what the current best practice is? --GargoyleMT 22:19, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

New parameters
I've added named parameters to this template so that release dates for multiple regions can be specified in a single call (while still allowing the old calling syntax). Hope I didn't break anything too badly... --Stratadrake 04:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Europe or PAL?
Should we be entering "PAL region" or "Europe" for the location fields?—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 20:21, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * PAL in general cases; Europe if the European and Australasian dates differ. I've added support for the PAL region into the template. Kariteh 09:41, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Chinese?
For example, CN Release? TW Release? HK Release? (KyoriAsh (talk) 04:06, 20 March 2008 (UTC))
 * From WP:VG/DATE: "Release dates should be provided from primarily English-speaking regions, including North America, Europe, and Australia/New Zealand. If the video game is first released in a non-English country, commonly in Japan, then that should also be stated ... Releases in non-English countries should not be included in the infobox (unless it is first released in a non-English country), but if determined to be necessary to include, can be discussed further in the article's body." --Silver Edge (talk) 06:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I mean those chinese games... well, whatever, other language of wikipedia seems does not have similar videogame project... (KyoriAsh (talk) 17:18, 20 March 2008 (UTC))
 * If a game was released in Taiwan or Hong Kong first, you can use the alternate syntax, e.g.:
 * . --Silver Edge (talk) 18:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * . --Silver Edge (talk) 18:03, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Worldwide releases
Can someone add a field in the template for worldwide release ("WW" or something)? This would be especially useful for downloadable games such as Xbox Live Arcade titles. SeanMooney (talk) 20:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Worldwide releases don't need this template. Just put the date without any abbreviation. Kariteh (talk) 21:39, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thing is, I have seen quite a few game pages improperly using the template/INT date when actually referring to a worldwide release (see Rez, Psychonauts, Sonic Unleashed, N+, Dreamfall: The Longest Journey, and Half-Life 2: Episode Two for example). Perhaps this should be mentioned in the template documentation? SeanMooney (talk) 05:25, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * There was a small discussion on the project talk page but no one answered :( Kariteh (talk) 08:16, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

New code proposal
I have come up with a new code here that always only requires one call, and displays the dates in the order that they are given. There is a better explanation on the page. Please provide comments on the talk page. Thanks, MrKIA11 (talk) 21:33, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
 * An "auto-sort" option to sort them chronologically might be a good idea, too. SharkD (talk) 10:44, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I can not think of any possible way to do that. The only thing that I know of that sorts is tables, which would not be applicable in this situation. MrKIA11 (talk) 12:28, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It is definitely possible with parser functions, but the code would be way more convoluted than what is reasonable. Most games have only 3 release dates, it's easy enough to find the correct order manually. Kariteh (talk) 12:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * A lot of this "complicated" nature can be eliminated by properly encapsulating the bits into another template. A lot of the navbox templates, for instance, use several templates to simplify the code for end-users. SharkD (talk) 00:32, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I have to take back my earlier statement. I've looked into the issue in a bit more detail and have come to the following conclusions: without the ability to store the results of operations in local variables, and without a simple means of performing operations recursively, it's not really worth the effort of creating such a template. I've decided that adding logic in MediaWiki markup is a nightmare, and that whoever decided that we should do things in such a way is wacko. What in a normal scripting language would be relatively trivial has turned out to require an act of contortionism. SharkD (talk) 23:41, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I might be dumb, but what did you just say? MrKIA11 (talk) 23:53, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm saying that scripting in this implementation WikiMarkup is too complicated. SharkD (talk) 00:00, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Support, as explained in the talk page. SharkD (talk) 01:13, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Region after date
Is there an alternate version that places the region abbreviation after the date? I am using the template within list tables and it is messing up the sorting. SharkD (talk) 08:26, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, there is not. The only way I have found to work around that problem is to have what you want to sort by   what you want to show. MrKIA11 (talk) 08:36, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I just created a variation that does what I need. I linked to it from the docs for this one. SharkD (talk) 10:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * That will still mess up the sorting due to the format of the dates. I'm not sure you and MrKIA11 are talking about the same problem actually. Kariteh (talk) 10:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The tables will of course sort "2004 JP" before "2004 NA", but this is true to some degree no matter what you do. For example, even putting each region into its own column will still cause the sorting function to sort the entries first by whatever column is selected, and then, additionally, by whatever column is next (or maybe first. I've noticed some oddities, and I haven't looked too closely into the details yet). So, if the first column were to have Japanese release dates, and the second column had North American release dates, then all games having the same Japanese release date would be subsequently sorted by their North American release date. This works kind of like the "column A", "column B", "column C", etc., sorting options in Excel. This might be desired in some cases, but my point is that it is AFAIK not controllable (like it is in Excel). SharkD (talk) 00:46, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes but for full release dates, as opposed to just years, you have to use MrKIA11's trick, for instance: 2008-07-16   July 16, 2008. Kariteh (talk) 00:51, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. I was just using years. Simply using the ISO standard date format alone--without the more verbose variation--would be another solution. SharkD (talk) 01:02, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Of course, I could modify the template to automatically do as you and MrKIA11 have described. I'll have to look and see if there are any existing templates to convert dates between various formats, as I would rather make use of them than code it myself. Users would also most likely as a result be required to insert dates using the ISO standard, regardless of the template's output (which, incidentally, might be a good idea for the principal vgrelease template as well). SharkD (talk) 01:06, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Template:Dts2 does the same trick, but the problem in using it for lists of games is that the number of templates that can be transcluded on one page is actually limited; the bottom of the page will not display correctly if there are too much templates. As for using only the ISO format, the problem is that the vast majority of readers (IPs, unregistered users and new users) will see the raw ISO formatted date as opposed to a customized format (MM-DD-YYYY or DD-MM-YYYY) selected in the user prefs. Kariteh (talk) 10:19, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link! I would like to raise some issues first. Does the template-per-page limit affect all types of templates? If a template utilizes another template, does this add toward this limit? I'm working on a large list (Chronology of tactical role-playing games) and haven't noticed the effect of this limitation yet. Finally, I'm wondering how I can feed dates into dts2 as a single parameter instead of the three that are currently required. I might use the #time parser function, but it itself requires at the very least a day, year and month. E.g., I can't simply pass the year to the function and expect desired results. SharkD (talk) 23:34, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, the template limit is for all templates, and templates within templates are included. For dts2, you can put, but it would be easier for you to use dts or dts1, where you would just need    or  . dts is a larger template though, so dts1 is probably your best bet if I'm not mistaken. Yet now that I think of it, wouldn't vgy be the best template for this case? MrKIA11 (talk) 23:44, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Using a combination of dts1 and vgy will probably be the simplest solution. Thank you for bringing them to my attention! I was not able to find them in Category:Mathematical time and date function templates. I was hoping to make the template more versatile, though. I was hoping that the template would either sort the dates chronologically, or output them in the order they are inputted while also eschewing the changes to template syntax that you introduced in your own variation of the template. This may still be possible; I'll have to think about it and try again later. SharkD (talk) 23:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I was thinking we were still talking about your page, not the template. In that case, the only way possible that I can think of to have the dates be chronological and have regions specified would be the way I did it with my template. MrKIA11 (talk) 00:04, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I got step #1 done. I created a combination of/replacement for dts and vgy in the form of dts vgr. Step #2 is to incorporate it into vgrelease rv. SharkD (talk) 03:39, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm finished. You can find it here: Vgrtbl. It uses vgrelease rv internally and uses much of your own code (thank you!). At some point in the future, maybe all three templates can be merged into one another, but I'll leave that for someone else to do. SharkD (talk) 04:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Region codes
I was wondering what the basis is for the region codes used in this template. They are not the same as what is found here and here. The reason I ask is that I would like to create a new template that automatically returns the correct abbreviated link for all (or nearly all) potential regions/countries. If ambiguity remains and no definite sources can be found, I would like to discuss a finalization of such a list, possibly drawing upon these two resources. SharkD (talk) 00:56, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think would be good at all. Hundreds of small countries should not be options as release dates, because only the 4 regions (NA, EU, AUS, JP) should be specified in the infobox, with minor exceptions of course. ISO would not apply, as specific countries are discouraged, while regions are preferred. MrKIA11 (talk) 01:05, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * However, doing this would eliminate the odd syntax required when a region/country isn't one of the predefined ones. It will make the addition of new automated features easier. I don't see the problem with creating such a template; the old regions will still be there to be used, and existing policy with regards to which regions/countries to list won't be affected. I just want to definitely know which codes should be outputted. SharkD (talk) 02:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This would be a lot of work for not much IMO. There is no specific guideline for non-standard regions/countries because, simply put, they can be abbreviated however you want and there will never be ambiguity, because the non-standard date will always be stated in prose in the article's lead anyway. Kariteh (talk) 08:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Upon closer inspection I see that you are in fact incorrect. There is a standard that needs to be followed. WP:VG/DATE says, "Within the infobox, release dates should be provided using the vgrelease template. Even if this format is not used, do not use flag icons in the infobox, instead, state the region/country by name or by their 2 or 3-letter country codes." This is the information I was looking for, so I will use the guideline as the basis for further work in this area. SharkD (talk) 01:18, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and created such a template, Video game release/abbr, and will be utilizing it in my other templates. SharkD (talk) 01:35, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I modified my template, Vgrtbl, so that it autmatically collapses dates to a single entry if they are identical. You can use that code in this template if you want to. SharkD (talk) 06:39, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * An additional feature is that the template automatically links to To be announced and To be determined if the strings "TBA" or "TBD" are entered as dates. SharkD (talk) 21:04, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Alternate version
I created an alternate version of this template using, in part, some of MrKIA11's code. It is not backwards compatable with this template, so you should not merge the two, IMO. You can find it here: Video game release. SharkD (talk) 06:28, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Missing line feed
When using the long form of the template  The template fails to add a line feed to the end of the template call. Any chance of someone adding it so that it matches the short version of the template?

Two calls of the long version results in:

Two calls of the short version results in:

- X201 (talk) 13:03, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Extra code
Please remove all  HTML elements as they are not needed. Complete new code:

Thanks, MrKIA11 (talk) 22:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Consensus for this change? --- RockMFR 22:42, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nothing changes, so what consensus is needed? MrKIA11 (talk) 22:52, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Huh? This change would increase the size of the output. --- RockMFR 01:58, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No.  makes the text small by itself (i.e. this is with, and this is without.) MrKIA11 (talk) 12:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * While this is getting changed actually, might aswell throw in the stuff X201 mentioned above, so I think this is what it should look like:


 * Err...someone should probably validate that first actually (I'm trying to add a br to the variable entries). No idea what I'm doing to be honest! Thanks! Fin©™ 23:10, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree with this change. Adding this now would change many pages to have an extra line break. Why is it needed? MrKIA11 (talk) 12:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The line break is needed for consistency. Its not friendly or helpful to users. If they use one syntax then it doesn't need a line break, but if they use a different syntax to get the exact same results they have to add a line break. Seems really odd, the template output should take a standard form, regardless of the syntax used. - X201 (talk) 07:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well if others agree, I guess we can find which pages use that syntax and manually remove the extra line break. The code above is correct also AFAICT. MrKIA11 (talk) 12:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Adding the extra line break to the  format would be the better route rather than removing it from the   format. Removing the the line break would mess up articles and have dates running into one another whereas adding the BR to the longer syntax wouldn't mess up the current articles as much and would only require the removal of the unneeded BRs which could be botted with ease. - X201 (talk) 13:32, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's what I meant. I agree. MrKIA11 (talk) 15:42, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The current code enforces a) standard regions and abbreviations; and b) a standard ordering. Are one or both of these desirable? SharkD (talk) 16:13, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think your code is overkill. MrKIA11 (talk) 16:36, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Er, what? SharkD (talk) 17:21, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think it's good to enforce standard regions and abbreviations, the standard ordering isn't enforced though – whatever order you supply the regions in'll be the way they're displayed. The only way round this (and to enforce a chronological order for them) would be to put the dates in as ISO formats, then do some majik on them (to both sort and convert to nicer formatting). I think. No idea really! Thanks! Fin©™ 19:45, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Looking at the page source it appears to me that the template completely ignores the order in which you enter the regions/dates. The if-then-else structure is quite fixed in this regard. I agree that a chronological ordering would be nice, but there may be good reasons to avoid this. SharkD (talk) 22:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Correction, the template only recognizes the input order for those regions which are not pre-defined. SharkD (talk) 22:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed it does, not sure why I thought so... Would it be possible to recode it so predefined regions also come out in the order you put them in? I've no idea of wikicode... Thanks! Fin©™ 01:00, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Both SharkD and I have come up with alternate templates that introduce increased functionality. I haven't had much time to work on mine, although I still plan on it, and SharkD has placed his here. MrKIA11 (talk) 14:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I forgot about that, thanks. SharkD (talk) 15:21, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Norwegian interwiki
Could someone change the Norwegian interwiki to no:Mal:Spillutgivelse? The current one is a redirect. KristofferAG (talk) 23:49, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * You do that on the documentation page. Rich Farmbrough, 22:48, 17 July 2010 (UTC).

✅

Bullets
The bullets seem to be intefering with the video game infobox, see Star Wars: The Force Unleashed II for example. Or maybe it's just my browser.-- The Taerkasten ( talk ) 18:49, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

PAL region and PC games
Could we add a note for not using PAL-parameter in PC game articles since PAL region is not associated with PC games and I've seen it fairly often added. --Mika1h (talk) 19:38, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Distinguish UK release dates
As UK retailers stock new games on Fridays and European retailers do so on a Thursday, it's pretty common now for the UK and EU release dates to differ. I suggest the following change to help maintain tidier infoboxes:

This avoids editors having to use secondary United Kingdom: UK

DATE: syntax quite so often and can cause confusion and makes the infobox source messy. While I'm here, I'd also suggest changing the AUS entry to link to Australia (continent) as this is what that region is more commonly referred to. Thoughts?  Chimpanzee+  Us &#124; Ta &#124; Co 13:12, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds good! Fin©™ 13:37, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The link to Australasia instead of Australia is because the AUS parameter covers Australia and New Zealand. NZ is not part of the continent of Australia. Apart from that it sounds OK, although I worry about creeping back to the "United Nations of release dates" situation we were in that prompted the present system. - X201 (talk) 13:48, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Bloody confusing continents! You're right. According to Australia (continent), NZ isn't included but the maps on Continent say otherwise!  Chimpanzee+  Us &#124; Ta &#124; Co 14:58, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Broken
Please see the infobox on The Operative: No One Lives Forever, and notice how this template is now broken, at least when used with Template:Collapsible list. --Mondotta (talk) 10:23, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I just fixed this after a report on WP:VPT. Ucucha (talk) 15:51, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikilink WW to worldwide
For users who are unfamiliar with video game release abbreviations, it might be helpful to wikilink WW to Worldwide. Since the other regions are linked, I don't see why this shouldn't be linked either. If one doesn't know what NA, PAL, JP, EU means, then one won't know what WW means either. - M0rphzone (talk) 05:25, 4 January 2013 (UTC)


 * There was a slight swell of support for re-purposing INT from its current use. Might be worth a discussion on WT:VG – X201 (talk) 12:30, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have no problems with INT being used both ways, but I'm just saying that all the abbreviations should be wikilinked. I'm guessing you're ok with linking WW, and that there's consensus for adding a wikilink to WW, so will you or someone add the wikilink? - M0rphzone (talk) 02:36, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Can an admin add a wikilink to WW? It only takes a few seconds to wikilink to worldwide. If I could, I would change it myself. - M0rphzone (talk) 05:01, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Or alternatively, add a tooltip. Either would do, but I'd prefer not to have to go looking up the template documentation to find out what "WW" means, and other readers who aren't editors are likely to not know how to do that. —me_and 12:43, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Request to add Brazil region to template documentation.
I'd like to have Brazil added to the fields for the vgrelease template. During edits for Sega Genesis, and in general for quite a few Genesis-related products, we're finding there are other dates for the Brazilian version of the console and several games, thanks to Sega's association with Tec Toy. In addition to the Genesis article, articles such as Surgical Strike (video game), which received an exclusive Sega 32X release in Brazil, could take use of this additional parameter. Thank you.

BR would be a perfect region code.

Red Phoenix build the future...remember the past... 21:25, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Could you make your changes to the /sandbox and reactivate the request when ready? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:48, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Complete, as requested.  Red Phoenix  build the future...remember the past... 02:59, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Jackmcbarn (talk) 18:27, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 29 April 2014
Please add the United Kingdom, as consumer electronics and games etc have often been released solely for the UK market, or released in the UK separate from Europe or North America.

Example code...?

--> 75.176.181.60 (talk) 02:30, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅— cyberpower Chat Online 06:17, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Works just fine – ty :) --75.176.181.60 (talk) 00:33, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Request to add (South) Korea to template documentation
Hello! I'm requesting that (South) Korea be added to the template. Many games are being released and localized for Korean audiences, and while many times they're released worldwide at the same like (like with Pokémon X and Y), other time they're released before Western releases. For example, Monster Hunter 4 has only been released in Japanese and Korean (with Western releases in 2015), and Ragnarok Odyssey had a Korean release before the West. With video games growing in popularity in South Korea, I think it would be appropriate to include the Korean region to the template. Thanks for your time! -- 76.14.41.180 (talk) 03:18, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I support this. Many rhythm games and MMOs usually have earlier release dates in South Korea due to these games being developed there. For these titles, it would be helpful to have a specific "KO" or "KOR" prefix on this template. Jotamide (talk) 15:52, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Request to add CIS to the template documentation
Hello! Could the CIS (Commonwealth of Independent States, which includes Russia) be added to the template? There is a separate list of publishers in the region, which may publish the games on a different date in comparison to the Western releases. --ConCelFan (talk) 13:30, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 21 October 2015
Add an 'FR' for exclusive release for France. This is necessary for the PC Engine release in 1989 in that country.

G&amp;CP (talk) 22:29, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

FR: January 1, 1989 , that will do what you want without having to modify the template. --M ASEM (t) 22:32, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
 * because you don't need to do it for just one game. If you use the form

Colon
The colon should not show unless the region parameter is in use. If there is no region specified (left blank), the colon should not show... czar 19:25, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * See ongoing discussion at Template talk:Video game release. Documentation wise, an empty region is not supported. There's no point in using the template without a region, as it's primary purpose is to format and link the region. -- ferret (talk) 19:34, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Its purpose was also to format the date and do anything else that needs to be done to it. Template still needs to fail gracefully if no region is input—many infoboxes are still showing a hanging colon instead of hiding it when there is no input in . In any event, looks like I'll just be scrapping use of this template whenever possible.  czar  14:44, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The template doesn't do any date formatting though. While I still believe using this without a region is against it's purpose, I've made the following sandbox edit: [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AVideo_game_release%2Fsandbox&type=revision&diff=744969586&oldid=744967271 Diff]. When the 2nd parameter is present, it will additionally check for the 1st parameter now. See Template:Video game release/testcases -- ferret (talk) 15:03, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 6 August 2016
Please add a closure date to the syntax. The online game Webosaurs has been shut down and it needs a closed/shut down line on the infobox. Thanks Hawkeye75 (talk) 00:56, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Hawkeye75 (talk) 00:56, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: The purpose of this template is to format a region and date. It isn't meant for a date range. You would need an infobox field for "discontinuation". Recommend posting at Template talk:Infobox video game. -- ferret (talk) 01:18, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 6 August 2016
Please make a soft launch syntax.

Hawkeye75 (talk) 08:37, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Similar to the above request, this is not the page to discuss changes to the infobox. Please try Template talk:Infobox video game. -- ferret (talk) 12:59, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 24 October 2016
This has been requested before, but since it was never answered, I'm making a new one here. This template needs Korean release date prefix. Main reason is that the publishers – be it console manufacturers or third-party companys – treat the country as completely separated region, and thus set different release dates that don't collide with others. There're also whole bunch of obscure Japanese titles that got released in Korea and not anywhere else, like Tales of Destiny 2, Senko no Ronde: Dis-United Order or most recently Hero Must Die.

Another reason is people don't seem to know what prefix to use. There's already a conflict between usage of "KO" and "KOR", and also "SK" at aforementioned Senko no Ronde. --101.55.125.60 (talk) 09:07, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, please make sure that the developer of the VG in question comes from Korea, else, the field does not apply (see Template:Infobox video game). If that is the case, you can use Video game release, which features all regions available on WP. 2.247.255.11 (talk) 09:12, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Didn't see that new template, thanks for letting me know. --101.55.125.60 (talk) 09:16, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 3 December 2016
Please add {{subst:tfm|English anime network}} to the top, as it has been nominated for merging. P p p er y 21:53, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not willing to tag the template myself, as it will appear on over 12,000 articles and multiple times per article. Recommend mentioning the tfd at WT:VG.-- ferret (talk) 21:59, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * That's the point of tfm and its ilk. --Izno (talk) 22:57, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I understand that, but in this case it causes very bad formatting issues in infoboxes. Look at Fallout: New Vegas as an easy example. -- ferret (talk) 23:04, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
 * That seems pretty benign. --Izno (talk) 00:35, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Izno (talk) 22:56, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Merge Effort
I don't think merging the code from Vgrelease into "Vgrelease new" is the right way to handle the merger. I think instead we should do an AWB run and change all existing usage of Vgrelease to "Vgrelease new" syntax. Adding the code from Vgrelease will change the expected behavior of Vgrelease New, namely, that regions and dates will be output in the order they are entered. Every article using Vgrelease new for this purpose will begin outputting in the order of Vgrelease if the code is merged.

Generally the only thing that should be required to update syntax is change region=date to region|date. The one exception is Vgrelease's syntax for "region|regioncode|date". This will require a bit of extra thought. -- ferret (talk) 14:27, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * —Not really, since Video game release/abbr should include all parameters necessary, if AWB finds a word|word|date case in the template, it could simply change it to word2=date, no? We could also, temporarily, use the code present at Video game release/sandbox [basically a merged version of both templates, though excluding the region|abbr|date behaviour and INT regions, as they are quite uninformative (only say that x was released outside something, but not where)], and move it to the Video game release template. At that point, only the rarely used region|abbr|date format would be broken ("good" testcase #3). Then, we could run AWB to adapt everything to the Video game release new syntax, removing "good" testcases #1 & #3 from all page's code, resolving the aformentioned issue. Once that is done, we may remove the left-over single-parameter code from the main template and redirect Video game release new there. Guess that makes sense? Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 14:50, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Someone may have used "region|regioncode|date" for a non-region, which Video game release/abbr won't support. It would need to be reviewed on a case by case basis. But it should be rarely used anyway. I suggest we move to using Video game release's sandbox, since that will be the ultimate merge target. If we leave "Vgrelease new" alone, update VGrelease, convert syntax, remove the merged code from VGrelease to restore VGRelease new functionality, then redirect Vgrelease new, all should be (except the edge case) good. Wheeeee.. -- ferret (talk) 16:04, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Alright, I will move this template's sandbox code to vgrelease's sandbox. Sadly I won't be able to edit the template itself as I am lacking the rights to do so }. Also, I will shift to using vgrelease's testcase page, and transclude it to this template's. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 16:19, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * EDIT: Yes check.svg Everything moved over to Video game release/sandbox and Video game release/testcases. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 16:29, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

When you're done testing and happy with the merge code let me know. I will do a quick review and a few tests and make it live. -- ferret (talk) 16:59, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The current sandbox revision seems fine to me. You could make quick check if everything is alright, so that you can beging doing what must be done. If we no longer need the "something=" parameters in the sandbox, I could cut them, else I marked them for you so you could also delete them afterwards.  Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 17:09, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I think you're good to go here, noticed you had template editors. I also think 's edits should be removed. They're fine in the spirit of the original template, but the merge discussion established concensus to abandon this syntax and go with "Vgrelease new", which is dynmanic (and cannot do bad parameter checking). -- ferret (talk) 14:58, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I edited what, four pages? I converted them to the vgrelease syntax, so any change that affects vgrelease will still affect those pages. As for editing vgrelease itself, all I did was add a few extra country codes – it doesn't affect the overall outcome of anything. I didn't realize you guys were working on this already, so I'll back off, but undoing my edits seems unnecessary (especially if you're going to get a bot to do the merge, removing the need to actually do anything manually). Primefac (talk) 15:05, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Adding the fields to vgrelease now and using them live means we need to merge them into the sandbox. There's no need to alter articles currently using vgrelease new and it's syntax, because after sandbox is live, we can just redirect vgrelease new. -- ferret (talk) 15:09, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I'm not invested (I'm just a WP:WPT gnome) so I'll let you do what you feel is best. Primefac (talk) 15:12, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * So pretty much the only thing that would cross our way is test case #3, have you set up a script/bot of sorts for that case yet? Or, alternatively, add a tracking category? If you are fine with what we have you can make it live. Truly I gained template editor recently, but I don't feel that keen yet popping on a 12k+ usage template, so I will leave that to you . Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 16:26, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Feel free to request the use of PrimeBOT if necessary, and/or ping me if you want a TpER. Primefac (talk) 16:30, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Currently, I would just want a tracking category for testcase #3, and think off moving the code as of right now. However, if feels that the code is ready, even if it breaks #3, he should go for the move from sandbox to primary. For the template naming, I think that we need User:AnomieBOT/TemplateSubster force in this case, using it for "Vgrelease", "Vg release", "Vgrelease new", "Vgreleasenew", and "Video game release new", so that they are all changed to Video game release, once the new code is implemented.
 * Technically speaking, you only need to add "video game release new" to the force page, as the redirects will still trigger the substitution. Primefac (talk) 16:42, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Generally, the template-redirecting of the first two templates would also be of my likeness, and so including all five will securely make AnomieBot do the job for all of them. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 16:54, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * One thing here still: Is there a way to replace all occurences of "Vgrelease", "Vg release", "Vgrelease new", "Vgreleasenew", "Video game release new", and "Vgrabbrv" with their respective targets (this template for the first five, and "Video game release/abbr" for the latter) through AWB or bots? Once the moving is done, we should have that part as clean as possible all around. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 18:20, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * For the tracking cat, are you thinking something like an #ifexist on the wikilink? Primefac (talk) 16:44, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure how to implement these, but in the  line, it would be nice if a tracking category "Pages using vgrelease test case 3" (or similar) was appended, so we can evaluate those on a case-by-case basis and change them to vgrlease new-style templates, anything else can safely be included. For the time being, I also used the "generic parameter" system currently present here ("WW=", "NA=", etc.), and the merger effort should aim for re-doing these in vgrelease new-style code as well, but that is for a later part.  Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 16:54, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I've already got a tracking cat for that, but I'll have to modify it slightly. Will probably take the better part of a day to populate. Primefac (talk) 16:58, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

I've just updated the sandbox to fix the third syntax form of vgrelease. See. Please review testcases output. Looks good now. -- ferret (talk) 17:07, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * One more update. This fixed the last "bad" test case, where no region was given, only a date. This needs to be fixed with a bot run (No point in using template without a region), but we don't want to stop displaying dates for incorrect usage that already exists. See . -- ferret (talk) 17:19, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * And one more. This fixes the bad test case #1 output an ugly misformatted region wikilink. See . -- ferret (talk) 17:35, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Last concern before cut over
My last concern before cutover is the syntax format of first=Text, second=Date. As long as the text is a valid country code, or another region listed in the switch at, this will be fine. But if someone has used it for something completely nonstandard, it will cause a badly formatted redlink as a result of calling. Not sure of a solution or how to detect these cases. See "bad test case #4" I just added. -- ferret (talk) 17:47, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * From what I've seen of the testcases, it becomes fairly obvious that the wikilink is broken (e.g. [[Template:Country data ATLANTA|ATLANTA]]), but the other (nice?) option would be to add an #ifexist that would trigger an error. Primefac (talk) 17:52, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that pointed me where I needed to go. See . Test case should be fine now. -- ferret (talk) 17:58, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Great! In theory, we could fix the other bad cases as well, but they are not working already in the current template. If noone sees a necessity in fixing them, I'd say the sandbox is ready to be published. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 18:09, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * So, can I just double-check what's happening with the sandbox? It looks like you're adding the "new" code into the old, which will make both templates work properly when "video game release new" is converted into a redirect (and the existing redirects retargeted). Then a bot goes through and converts all undefined usage into ? And then, following that conversion, all three-unnamed-parameter uses are fixed/changed. Sound about right? Primefac (talk) 18:58, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Would this edit work for tracking category invalid regions (I.e. getalias doesn't work) or "date only, no region" usage? . -- ferret (talk) 18:14, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Neither, at the moment. video game release/abbr makes a getalias call, and neither nor  actually throw an error. /abbr should be modified so that if #default is triggered, it runs an #ifexist, running the getalias if okay and the category/error if not. Primefac (talk) 18:54, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I've removed my error check from Vgrelease sandbox, and added #ifexists to /abbr/sandbox. This basically just "fixes" it, like you said. No tracking category needed, I don't think. See . -- ferret (talk) 19:04, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Merged code live
Next step would be to redirect "vgrelease new". -- ferret (talk) 15:55, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 15:56, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Well that and a documentation update. You want to handle? or I can, just don't want two hands in the pot. -- ferret (talk) 15:59, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that, cross-handling multiple things currently. Should be all-done now. { Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 16:17, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * So, the redirectery seems to be about finished. Could you set up AWB next? Also, could you make it replace occurences of "Vgrelease", "Vg release", "Vgrelease new", "Vgreleasenew" and "Video game release new" with "Video game release", and all occurences of "Vgrabbrv" with "Video game release/abbr"; would that be possible? Lordtobi  ( ✉ )
 * Yes and no. The conversion from  to   will be fairly straightforward (I'll start working on that), but I don't think the redirects need to be removed. That's why they're redirects. Primefac (talk) 17:16, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Truly, redirects are redirects, but I'm on the fence when it comes to template redirects. I mean it is just my opinion, but I think that we should clean up those bounds. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 17:18, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, and I'm relatively neutral about the "new" redirects, but vgrelease shouldn't be deprecated (easier to type). It's like requesting that ill be revoked because interlanguage link exists. Primefac (talk) 17:23, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm on board with getting rid of the "new" redirects. Agree with Prime on keeping vgrelease. -- ferret (talk) 17:28, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Good point with the deprecation, as that should definetly be done to the three mentioned -new ones, though, the other should be changed (however, not deprecated) anyway, so that we have a clean transclusion on every page. Neither vgrelease nor vg release has to be deleted, and may be used in the future, but I like being a perfectionist for the time-being. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 18:06, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * AWB code for replacement:  →   The 19 pages in Category:Pages using vgrelease without a region can be dealt with manually. Look good? Primefac (talk) 17:26, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * All pages in the category have been handeled, so that the only page still using is our testcases page. Though some pages pop up afterwards as well (delayed caching?), so I will keep an eye out for that. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 18:08, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It'll take a while for the category to fully populate. -- ferret (talk) 18:15, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * That's fine, it makes the coding a bit easier (fewer exceptions to account for). To BRFA we go? Primefac (talk) 18:26, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The "=" parameters for the old style syntax, we will eventually remove. It will break, and therefore users will scratch their heads and figure it out. The tracking category we'll just need to keep. Syntax-wise the user can do it and expect some sort of output. Since the output is "technically" valid, we'll need an easy way to find such usages going forward. BRFA we go. -- ferret (talk) 18:30, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Let's go! Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 18:31, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Done Primefac (talk) 18:56, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Invalid syntax catagory
This was a new bit added as part of the merger effort. There is now a hidden tracking catagory at Category:Pages using vgrelease without a region that contains pages that use the template without a region, which defeats the purpose. Even though the syntax is invalid, it will output the date anyways without bad formatting. , I think this solves your colon complaint as well as providing an easy way to find these. -- ferret (talk) 14:16, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
 * For pages like Alto's Adventure, should the code actually be  instead of  ? or should vgrelease not be used in that instance? Primefac (talk) 17:09, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Should not be used. Essentially the point of the template is to take region/date pairs and format them into a list. There's no point in using it if you have no region specified. -- ferret (talk) 18:15, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I updated it, wasn't quite as expected for Infobox VG anyways, see [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alto%27s_Adventure&type=revision&diff=757227294&oldid=753539786 here]. -- ferret (talk) 14:54, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Another syntax cleanup thought
I was watching PrimeBOT do it's thing and noticed Sixth generation of video game consoles. Two things caught my eye. In, I fixed a template parameter that was never valid, so of course the bot left it alone. Once the bot is finished, we may need to find named parameter use and clean up some more. Secondly, this page is using the template more than necessary. Both vgrelease and vgrelease new supported multiple regions/dates in a single call, but here they are using the template repeatedly for one region/date pair at a time. Compare what PrimeBot found to what it found at. Would it be possible to identify and fix consecutive usages like this? Part of the templates purpose is to format this into a ul/li list. using the template back to back is counter to that. -- ferret (talk) 15:04, 29 December 2016 (UTC) before and/or after the template call. They were never required on this template, and ceased having to be used on the new template when I edited it over. Furthermore, some vgr new calls still use the "v=" parameter; I'm not sure what it was used for, but it is long-removed and can now be carried off by the bot as well, no? Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 15:17, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * To the first question – yes. I was thinking of adding tracking cats to find any named parameter left over. As to the second – your "fifth"/"sixth" examples are when vgrelease is used in a table. Each of those uses is in a different cell, so they have to be separate uses. Primefac (talk) 15:08, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Prime, take a look at sixth generation again. Yes, there are four columns to the table, but in each INDIVIDUAL cell the template was used multiple times. In the fifth generation article, there's also several columns, but only one usage of Vgrelease in each cell.  versus   -- ferret (talk) 15:11, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Whoops, missed that. Yes, those should be combined. I don't think we need a bot to do it, but I can whip up something in AWB to search for that sort of thing. Primefac (talk) 15:13, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * A syntax like this was required to properly sort the dates, even though this example serves up the opposite, where there are multiple template calls in the correct order. I'd say combining them is a good idea. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 15:18, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Searching only for vgrelease use, there are 2875 pages that have consecutive template calls. I guess the questions are a) is it worth combining them, and b) does that mean I have to submit another BRFA? Primefac (talk) 05:30, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd LIKE to clean them up, but they aren't technically HURTING anything either and won't break. Could we maybe dump the list into a subpage for someone bored to work on as they please? -- ferret (talk) 13:58, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I would like to add to the examples above, the usage of, and
 * Too late, bot's already approved and running. However, a tracking cat will work. After the bot runs, Module:Check for unknown parameters will also catch any leftover instances of the "old" code that might have been missed (NA/JP/etc). Primefac (talk) 15:22, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I see a tracking category possible for the v parameter stuff, but for the HTML newline I'm pretty sure we are not able to properly check/track. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 15:25, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Nope, but I can manually check them with AWB. Given that 99% of the instances will be "proper" it shouldn't take too terribly long. Primefac (talk) 15:30, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Prime could you work the tracking category into Template:Video game release/sandbox please? -- ferret (talk) 15:34, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * v= was used to set the date format for Video game release/sort, but it was removed from "vgrelease new" in . Vgrelease never supported it. -- ferret (talk) 15:23, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, that rings a bell, though I'm not sure if it was ever really necessary. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 15:25, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It defaulted to 1 if omitted, which resulted in mdy format. -- ferret (talk) 15:27, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Major malfunction
I just got notified about some issues with the bot merge. Specifically, that there are occasions where we have things like, which turns into afterwards (which is bad syntax). Some pages include [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere&target=Template:Country_data_ASIA&hidelinks=1 these transclusions] and [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Darius_II_%28video_game%29&type=revision&diff=757137468&oldid=751527208 this edit]. Primefac (talk) 21:17, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * this might help, but might not. Primefac (talk) 21:28, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * As of right now, I could not think of a way to handle any kind of syntax like this without checking if given even-number parameter is a date, and else make it . The template is not set to work like the way it is used in the article you linked. So don't worry: We already have a bad case set up in the code which checks for invalid regions at Video game release/abbr; if we add a tracking category for those cases, it will be quite some handwork, but it won't kill us.  Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 21:29, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * South American and Asian dates do not belong in the infobox anyway, unless the game was developed there. ~ Dissident93  ( talk ) 21:33, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The ifexists in abbr is not meant to track issues. That update was to deliberately allow non-regions, on a permanent basis. The issue here is an unconsidered edge case where someone has used named parameter(s) with the "custom region" syntax. We didn't test the two mixed together. My recommendation is to let the bot finish, then do a scan for articles with an odd number of parameters (Greater than 3). I can't imagine it's a huge amount. We can fix them.  should be changed to   as example. This was going to basically be the next scan I asked for anyway. Or, like Dissident93 points out, these regions likely shouldn't be there anyways. -- ferret (talk) 21:37, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

I've cleaned up [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere&target=Template:Country_data_ASIA&hidelinks=1 these transclusions]. -- ferret (talk) 22:06, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks like all the obvious transclusions for deleted Country_data_* templates have been cleaned up, until the next database report runs. -- ferret (talk) 22:13, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Post parameter-merge checklist
This is mostly just a summary of the above section, a "to do" list as we find them. Feel free to add/subtract/modify this list as appropriate. Primefac (talk) 21:47, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) ✅ Pages without a region – Category:Pages using vgrelease without a region created.
 * 2) ✅ Pages with invalid params – Use Module:Check for unknown parameters. Category created, waiting for it to populate (00:15, 30 December 2016 (UTC))
 * 3) Sequential uses – Merge into
 * 4) Bad syntax – Fix/remove three-parameter usage (a holdover from the original version) which might result in bad syntax.
 * I expect "Pages without a region" to be an ongoing category, as users constantly add this. For "Pages with invalid parms", could you add the module to the sandbox page? I've removed the named parameters from the sandbox already. For "Fix/remove three-parameter usage", we have two cases. "Single usage", that is three unnamed parameters (and no more), which does not break the template. These should be converted from  to  . Once that is done, we can remove the template's ability to understand "three unnamed". Then there's the "serial usage" case, which the BOT stumbled on where named parameters were mixed in. I'm hoping that case is low enough that we can handle by hand once we detect them (Thinking this is any case where there's an odd number of unnamed parameters, and the number is 5 or greater). -- ferret (talk) 21:52, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Done my homework, "Category:Pages using vgrelease without a region" is all-empty (for now). Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 22:37, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Added #2 invalid parms to sandbox and doc page. Thinking we should leave this in place, people are going to use the wrong syntax for a while. -- ferret (talk) 00:17, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm sure they will (wasn't planning on removing the tracking cat) but I'd as least like to get an idea of how many the bot skipped over. Plus, there are a bunch with v that need dealing with. Primefac (talk) 00:22, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * v has been taken care of. Only thing left on the list will be either instances skipped by the bot or nonstandard values. Primefac (talk) 04:44, 30 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Tracking categories currently empty thanks to a run through by . Thanks! -- ferret (talk) 15:58, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The cat is still populating, even after 48+ hours. I'm keeping an eye on it as I can. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 14:33, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * In case it went unnoticed as of now, I started replacing "Vgrelease new"/"Vgreleasenew"/"Video game release new" with "Video game release" as I was recently granted AWB rights. Just 1,800 pages to go. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 14:33, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ I have replaced all occurencies of the new teplate links/redirects for the 'new' template (about 2,300 pages). Can somebody delete/deprecate those pages? Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 18:43, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I listed all redirects, including some unrelated to this merge, at Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 January 3. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 11:18, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It would be lovely if you could participate in the RfD discussions as linked above. Currently the 'new' and other unused redirects are voted as keep by one person only. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 16:31, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Most of the cat entries each day SEEM to have "AU= date" in them. Cleaning them up as the category repopulates. -- ferret (talk) 15:56, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Still repopulating 10-30 articles a day. I assume it's just a slow roll as page caches refresh. -- ferret (talk) 15:23, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Unless someone else has been working it before I see it each day, category has been empty the last few days. I'll give it another week or two then remove the named parameters. -- ferret (talk) 14:40, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Broken /abbr custom regions
I noticed that, on any page using a custom parameter like FRA (France), GER (Germany), or KOR (South Korea), the custom regions do not work, and an unlinked statement is put out every time. I attempted a fix at Template:Video game release/abbr/sandbox and applied it to Template:Video game release/sandbox. As appended in Template:Video game release/testcases #1, it should now work. Should we make it live immediately? Lordtobi ( ✉ ) 11:03, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * In addition to the above, I have re-direct United Kingdom (UK) and the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) directly to getalias, and it works (see other case #3). Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 11:28, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * For another thing, I wondered if we should use three-letter country codes. For anything not currently included in /abbr, e.g. GER, FRA, or KOR, are already forced to have three letters, so I adapted in the sandbox, the only three countries in the world allowed to be two-lettered by our tempalte, Japan (JP/N), Brazil (BR/A), and Russia (RU/S). These three are documented in other case #2, but other test cases in the good cases section point out the change. Opinions? Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 11:28, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like this is my bad here. I passed the wikilink to ifexists instead of the page name. Current /abbr sandbox is good to go live. -- ferret (talk) 13:54, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * With all three changes denoted above? Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 13:55, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * We should keep overrides like JP, BR, and RU, but if getAlias handles UK, CIS, RUS, etc, then we should let it do it's thing. -- ferret (talk) 13:59, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Getalias can only handle "JPN", "BRA" or "RUS", but not "JP", "JN", "BR", or "RU", as their respective Country data xxx redirects do not exist. So practically we are making only these three countries able to be used with two letters, and IMO that shouldn't be. If we made another bot that exchanged JP and JN with JPN, RU with RUS, and BR with BRA, we could omit those seven parameters from /abbr, but I guess that should not have to be for now. Because of that, for now, I would like to have it in the correct format directly and handle the replacement later on. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 14:19, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah I would rather not mess with that yet. JP is widely understood by the project. It's already a big change for everyone to switch from JP= to JP|. It'd be even worse to suddenly force JP to JPN. We'd need to communicate that out in advanced, and I suspect it would be opposed. -- ferret (talk) 14:21, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
 * The input would remain the same, really, just the output would differ. It's not really important, but still a little bugger to me. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 11:46, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'd bring it up at WP:VG. "JP" is what almost everyone says in every discussion, etc. -- ferret (talk) 12:31, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * So I think I might be asking a stupid question here, but isn't JP one of the lines in the #switch in /abbr? So... it's being passed as such, and GetAlias isn't being called... right? Primefac (talk) 16:13, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * That is correct. We are overriding JP/JA/JN/JPN, RU/RUS and BR/BRA, because, , , , and do not exist. IMO we should at least deprecate JA and JN soon, and default them to JP for the time-being.  Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 16:25, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

I'm fine with it, in theory. I just think you need to hit up the project before trying to remove "JP". Doing cleanup for JN and JA should be ok. RU and BR should be fairly limited in use. -- ferret (talk) 16:31, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Category:Pages using vgrelease with JA or JN created and included. Waiting for population. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 16:36, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

Removal of named parameters
I plan to remove the named parameters on Monday, as the maintenance category has been empty for a while now. -- ferret (talk) 00:39, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Primefac (talk) 00:42, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Number of paired entries
Currently the template supports 10 data pairs, ending on parameters 19/20. I think we should go ahead and bump it up to 20 (Ending on 39/40). I actually just hit an article where I brushed against the 10 pair limit.

Ultimately, I think I'll look into converting the module to LUA, but I am not ready to sit down and write it just yet. -- ferret (talk) 14:30, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- ferret (talk) 15:53, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Added SEA
I have added SEA to the template because it was adding all sorts of unrelated categories to Luna Online. I believe that the root cause of the problem was that Template:Country data SEA does not exist, but is a redirect to Southeast Asia, and when the ifexist statement in Template:Video game release/abbr looked for Template:Country data SEA, all of the hidden categories in Southeast Asia were added to Luna Online. There may be a better way to fix this problem. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:52, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The redirect seems inproper, and has been around for many years, so I put it up for deletion. Regardless of wether is is deleted or broken as it is right now, we would need to have an edit alike what you have placed in there, wherefore the real question is: Do we really need a "Southeast Asia" parameter? I'd say no since it is not really a relevant video game release region, but I'll pass that to the other contributing editors. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 14:27, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I actually agree with adding SEA, I was pondering doing it myself. I'm encountering it often while trying to clean up the maintenance categories. -- ferret (talk) 15:52, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Additionally: I'd recommend adding Asia (AS) as well. I encounter it all over the place. -- ferret (talk) 17:27, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Simply "Asia" seems too unspecific, as it [literally] spans the entire eastern hemisphere, with the only exceptions being eastern Africa and Australia. Southeast Asia is justified as to combine Singapore et al into one region, but ultimately using Asia would include SEA, China, Japan, Russia, etc. It'd be all over the place. Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 17:32, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Heh, I understand, trust me. But I run into it on DOZENS and DOZENS of articles. We should include things based on usage, because we can't stop people from doing AS anyway. Might as well support it. -- ferret (talk) 17:52, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean, though I'd propose we add it and then track its usage, so to phase it out by the time, replacing it with appropriate terms (RU, CHI, JP, SEA, etc.). I also did not expect the INT usage to be as high as it is, so if that'll take time as well, why not combine it?  Lordtobi  ( ✉ ) 18:01, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Let me do some searching later, because I don't know how widespread "AS" by itself is.... I find it as Asia|As|Date, which I change to a wikilink to clean out the other category I'm working on. -- ferret (talk) 18:04, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I also see SA very often. Might be best to just add them, and then we can track them as necessary. -- ferret (talk) 14:18, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * One more, though I've only seen it once so far. This is just a reminder to myself to check later: OC -- ferret (talk) 15:13, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I would think we could re-purpose AU for Australasia or the Australasian realm, and have AUS for just Australia, so we would not need Oceania (and I've never heard of a game releasing in New Zealand but not Australia anyway). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lordtobi  (talk • contribs) 15:19, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I've been pondering on that myself, I noticed today both AU and AUS go to Australiasia. I had been thinking AU went to Australiasia and AUS went to Australia. I think we'll have to look at usage before we do anything there. -- ferret (talk) 15:20, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

OC versus AU/AUS
Splitting this out from above section. I've ran into OC a few more times. On top of that we have the issue that AU and AUS are both linked to Australiasia, preventing us from ever linking Australia. According to Australiasia, it is a sub-region of Oceania. My current position is that we should add OC, and remove AU/AUS so that normal ISO codes can process for Australia. I'd also like to note that games (World of Warcraft as immediate example) never use the term Australiasia, they use Oceania. -- ferret (talk) 16:20, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
 * In the module version, I have added OC. -- ferret (talk) 12:48, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Lua module conversion
I've begun working on a conversion to Lua at Module:Video game release and my sandbox. -- ferret (talk) 18:08, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Module is roughly complete other than minor tweaks. Actual template sandbox and test cases are currently using it. -- ferret (talk) 19:49, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Any thoughts from the usual watchers? -- ferret (talk) 11:59, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * , the testcases look good. I didn't stop to think of any other fringe cases, but I'd say go for it (and pick up any pieces later). Nice work. Primefac (talk) 12:06, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

✅ -- ferret (talk) 13:48, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Category:Pages using vgrelease with two parameter region
I've finally finished off Category:Pages using vgrelease with two parameter region. There should be no more articles that still use the old old old syntax of Region|Abbr|Date. -- ferret (talk) 01:02, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

JP/RU/BR, versus UK
The reason UK works with country data is that Country data UK redirects to Country data United Kingdom. This redirect has existed for a long time, but the similar redirects for JP and RU were deleted back in 2009. BR has never had a redirect to Brazil. Personally, I would prefer not having to have special treatment for these codes. Thoughts? Is there a project for Country Data we should approach, or just create the redirects we need? -- ferret (talk) 13:10, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Created redirect for BR, testing in sandbox. -- ferret (talk) 14:56, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Same for JP and RU. -- ferret (talk) 15:07, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
 * And [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3AVideo_game_release&type=revision&diff=771439547&oldid=771426880 done]. -- ferret (talk) 15:13, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Vgrtbl
Would it be possible to merge the behavior into this template? I.e. make the dates sortable in tables? SharkD  Talk  03:51, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Brief review of the module, the short of it is that it looks at each date (if it is a date), and adds a non-displayed span in front with Y-m-d format. This causes basic text sorting to handle the date more or less correctly. Rather than merging this exact functionality, I think it might be easier to add a "sortdate" named parameter, and let the user simply specify the Y-m-d they want. It would then be output as a single hidden span in front of the normal UL/LI output. It should be pretty simple to update the <40 articles using Vgrtbl after that. -- ferret (talk) 12:52, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * This might be out of scope for VGRelease (but perhaps not the module). What should be added is  to the tables. --Izno (talk) 14:18, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree, probably shouldn't be in the business of automating sortkeys. I'm not confident we could correctly output them. -- ferret (talk) 14:31, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm relatively indifferent on updating the module, but there are a ton of templates that have some sort of "sortable" wrapper to make things easier (so it's not the end of the world to have vgrtbl) Primefac (talk) 14:34, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * If we do it, I still think we should go for the simpler solution of allowing a sort date to be specified, rather than trying to find and parse a date from 2nd parameter. These days, 2nd parameter typically has small tags, ref tags, etc. With the limited use scope (<40 articles), a parameter works just as well as a parsing solution. Additionally, VGrelease is usually not used with tables, so we need a parameter to indicate "I'm for table use" anyway. -- ferret (talk) 15:01, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Abbreviation for Australasia?
In vgrelease old, I used AUS, which includes New Zealand and New Guinea. In vgrelease new, there is only AU, which leaves out a couple of countries.

Worldwide release region
Some digitally released games are released worldwide at the same time everywhere. I think the ability to denote a worldwide release should be added to this template (XW might be a good abbreviation for world-wide). Purkinje90 (talk) 19:40, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

User preferences don't work
If there are references or other text added with the date inside the template the user preferences don't work for that date. See for example: Special:PermanentLink/593373795 Windows date for EU and NA works but INT doesn't since there are references and other text added. --Mika1h (talk) 02:07, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Gap
Whatever change has been made to the template has inserted a gap between the first date and any following: see n'yah and n'yah. DWB (talk) / Comment on Dishonored's FA nom! 21:30, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Font size is not accessible
The guidance at MOS:FONTSIZE and Manual of Style/Accessibility both state that "Reduced font sizes should be used sparingly. Avoid using smaller font sizes in elements that already use a smaller font size, such as infoboxes, navboxes and reference sections. In no case should the resulting font size drop below 85% of the page fontsize (or 11px)."

This template when used in-line produces text which is 68% of the base font size by successive applications of  and  to the country code. When used inside an infobox that text becomes 61% of the base font size. There is no justification whatsoever for such ridiculously small text.

I've made a modified version in Template:Video game release new/sandbox to show the country code without those size reductions. I propose to update the main template to incorporate those changes. --RexxS (talk) 19:03, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Created Template:Video game release new/testcases to demonstrate the update. Pinging the project page as well since this talk likely has low watchers. -- ferret (talk) 21:21, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * , if we're gonna make it the same size at the date, could we add a colon after the country code (or WW)? Also, could we consider keeping the size of the country code to be lower than the date and  aligned but meet the size requirements of MOS? ☺ · Salvidrim!  ·  ✉  21:37, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * , RexxS is proposing the change. I just provided the project notification. The colon sounds fine to me but I'm not all that familiar with the MOS rules concerning the font size. -- ferret (talk) 23:08, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * When it's used inside an infobox, it's already at 90% of the page font size, so there's not much room to manoeuvre. makes the country code 72% of the page font size and that's really not acceptable for readers with diminished vision. I've now tried  and you can see how that looks in Template:Video game release new/testcases. The country codes in the demo infobox are at 85.5% of the page font size, and that's about as small as we can use. As usual, I still can't properly make out the [note 1] footnote link, even on my 30-inch monitor, but I've seen enough references inside infoboxes to guess at what it represents. I can't be expected to do the same for a country code. --RexxS (talk) 05:55, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I 100% support implementing that last option. It has more acceptable accessibility and still looks perfectly fine and informative for all readers. As for the size of the ref tags, as you say, the text size issue isn't related to this specific infobox but to all of them in general. :) ☺ · Salvidrim!  ·  ✉  14:20, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I just realized we're talking about vgreleasenew, not vgrelease - I didn't know there were two versions! The latter one remains the most used and probably suffers from the same issues as the new one. Could the same fix be applied to both? (Side note: we should really consider merging the two templates... ☺ · Salvidrim!  ·  ✉  14:25, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Most new articles use Vgreleasenew since it supports more regions and can have multiple regions per call. A lot of old articles still use the other though. We should definitely look into merging. -- ferret (talk) 14:40, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yea, it should be a fairly simple bot (AWB even) run to "update" the previous template's usage to the new one. But in the meantime, the visual fixes of the latter should still be probably applied to the former, I think ☺ · Salvidrim!  ·  ✉  15:00, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've put a modified version of Template:Video game release into Template:Video game release/sandbox incorporating the same changes. It looks OK to me when I preview it in the first few articles from Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Video game release. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Perhaps we should get opinions from a few others before altering templates with almost 15,000 transclusions?
 * There are also Template:Vgrtbl, Template:Vgrtbl-bl, Template:Vgrtbl-tx, which just use , so are usable in normal text. Perhaps there should be a note in the documentation not to use them in infoboxes or tables with reduced font size? --RexxS (talk) 19:47, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * vgrtbl-tx has seven uses, and vgrtbl-bl has three. They should be deprecated (changed in-article then redirected). is of dubious usefulness but is used more widely. I'll add a ping to WP:VG about the proposed changes above. ☺ ·  Salvidrim!  ·  ✉  20:20, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * There are also Template:Vgrtbl, Template:Vgrtbl-bl, Template:Vgrtbl-tx, which just use , so are usable in normal text. Perhaps there should be a note in the documentation not to use them in infoboxes or tables with reduced font size? --RexxS (talk) 19:47, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * vgrtbl-tx has seven uses, and vgrtbl-bl has three. They should be deprecated (changed in-article then redirected). is of dubious usefulness but is used more widely. I'll add a ping to WP:VG about the proposed changes above. ☺ ·  Salvidrim!  ·  ✉  20:20, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


 * The more I think about this template, the less sense it makes. Does anyone know of other infoboxes use a template like this with superscript? I still don't understand why we shove so much into the infobox for the benefit of so few. czar  05:16, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I think you have to address that at Template:Infobox video game, which is where use of this template is dictated. Honestly I think we should move to a policy of having "first release" in the infobox, and use a table to capture more in-depth release informations in the development and/or release section. Something akin to Video game timeline (In its simplicity of use, not as a graphical graph). -- ferret (talk) 11:37, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The use of superscript seems to date back to 2006. No reason was given for it. Link. SharkD   Talk  01:24, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Farm-Fresh eye.png Template talk:Infobox video game czar  06:38, 30 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I think that the visual fixes proposed here and uncontroversial and haven't had any objections, AND are independent from the larger discussion being held on the main infobox page., think you could implement them in vgreleasenew & vgrelease immediately? At a later time, and depending on the outcome of Czar's discussion on the main infobox page, a merge into the newer one can be explored. ☺ · Salvidrim!  ·  ✉  06:23, 31 July 2016 (UTC)r
 * ✅. -- ferret (talk) 11:24, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Seems like articles that use collapsible list have some problems. There is an awkward colon in front of the release date. See this one and this one. Is there a way to fix it? AdrianGamer (talk) 15:14, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * vgrelease shouldn't be used without a country code; it should be just the date. I've fixed the two above but this might well be worth an AWB run. ☺ · Salvidrim!  ·  ✉  15:18, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The syntax those two articles have are straight up invalid for vgrelease, which documentation wise always expects a region. Neither template is meant to have a blank region. -- ferret (talk) 17:08, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, with [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AVideo_game_release&type=revision&diff=732500861&oldid=658929128 the changes] you've made you also added colons. On Paradigm (video game) it shows a single colon in the release parameter. Maybe remove the colons? soetermans . ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 17:52, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Using vgrelease without a country code is invalid. I've removed the template and left just the date. Maybe we should make it throw a visible (red, bold) error message when the necessary country code is not defined. ☺ · Salvidrim!  ·  ✉  18:00, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I could make an error message for you, but it looks like the colon is doing a good job of getting the invalid uses reported without any further help! Actually, a tracking category would be a kinder way of finding where there's no country code. --RexxS (talk) 19:20, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Meh, I'm currently running AWB through the ~25k transclusions of vgrelease/Video game release to find all instances of use without a region parameter (searching the the string ) and fixing them. ☺ ·  Salvidrim!  ·  ✉  00:32, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Take a look at [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Team_Fortress_2&curid=1847427&diff=732751255&oldid=732083760 this diff]. This one was wrong but the AWB fix broke it too. -- ferret (talk) 00:39, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yea, I hadn't noticed AWB had detected more than one use on that page. Some valid uses of the template also start with a double pipe for some unknown reason so in these cases I just fix it by removing the double pipe. ☺ · Salvidrim!  ·  ✉  00:52, 3 August 2016 (UTC)