Template talk:WikiProject banner shell/Archive 2

"Nested="
Supposing I wanted to use this, how would I go about enabling the  parameter on a WikiProject banner? —Disavian (talk/contribs) 19:44, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Simple version: take the table-opening line in the current banner, which is usually in the following form:

{| class="messagebox standard-talk"
 * and replace it with:

{| class=""


 * substituting the correct WikiProject link. Kirill Lokshin 20:05, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I've found that for project templates that use a variant of, you need to use colspan="3" (instead of 2). —Disavian (talk/contribs) 05:17, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Please also note that if you add the nesting code to a template, please make sure the template belongs to Category:WikiProject banners. This is to help the bot know what templates have the code.  Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  01:25, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, please provide a link to the Template:WikiProjectBannerShell in your edit summaries or projects whose banners we are editing wont know why are we doing it. Btw, colspan=3 is also needed for banners which have a picture on the right side. Shinhan 12:25, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

A somewhat more efferent way is:

{| class="messagebox -talk"



For starters, it's case insensitive, so you can use "yes", "Yes", or "YES" and it will still work. It also prevents an empty row from showing up in some templates do to two consecutive "|-". --Farix (Talk) 14:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I like it, especially the bit about accepting yES and Yes (because when typing |nested=yes I sometimes accidentally press shift to long and get Yes instead). But Im not sure this is the cure for the empty row problem. I mean, isnt

! colspan="2" style="text-align: center" exactly the same as the  you replaced it with? Also, I think colspan should be 3 by default. AFAIK putting colspan=3 in two column tables brings no adverse problem while I have seen many colspan=2 on three column templates (WPBiography Im looking at you!). Shinhan 14:44, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It is the same, but how the original is written the first row deceleration was before the #if statement, so when the #if statement is evaluated as false, it passes two consecutive row delegations instead of just one:


 * Actually, you really don't need the first "|-" to begin with. So you can do a synthesis of the two as:

{| class="messagebox -talk"


 * Farix (Talk) 17:04, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, thanks for the clarification. What do you think about putting colspan=3 as a default value? Shinhan 18:17, 16 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Only if the template has 3 columns. If it only has 2 columns, then colspan should be set to 2. --Farix (Talk) 18:21, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Why two?
Why do we have both WikiProjectBannerShell and WikiProjectBanners? Having two banners doing - at first glance, correct me if I'm wrong - essentially the same thing is going to make developing automated processes to apply and manipulate this scheme all the more difficult... --kingboyk 13:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * This one shows what WikiProjects the article is apart of and the rating without having to expand anything. Many people complained that with WikiProjectBanners, the WikiProjects were essentially hidden unless the banner was expanded. This one shows the WikiProjects and rating without expanding. Unfortunately, this one requires a simple code change.↔NMajdan &bull;talk 13:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. So this one requires special support by the WikiProject template, whereas the other is simply a generic container? --kingboyk 13:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Correct. The previous section on this talk page contains the code that needs to be added to a WikiProject's banner which allows it to be "nested." But, as I said, the benefit of this is a user that goes directly to a talk page (such as Talk:2007 Fiesta Bowl) can immediately see which WikiProjects this article is apart of and the assessment rating.↔NMajdan &bull;talk 13:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clearing that up. --kingboyk 13:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Multiple Banner discussion
Your participation is requested for a discussion of the multiple project banner issue at WP:COUNCIL &mdash; here. Thanks -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 14:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Village Pump conversation concerning these templates
See here this concerns several aspects of the WikiProject templates and their implementation. Quadzilla99 00:30, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject banners and scopes
Please see discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject reform, regarding WikiProject scopes getting off track. I think a lot of stuff can be cleared up by better work load distribution and less redundant tagging, and the WikiProject scope is in the center of that. -- Ned Scott 00:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

WP1.0
Couple more requests, WP1.0 and FAOL need the code added so they collapse. Thanks.--Kranar drogin 21:45, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * This template was created specifically for WikiProjects. While one could possibly argue that WP1.0 is similar to a WikiProject, FAOL definitely isn't.  I'm hesitant to add either of those to this shell.  Anyone have other thoughts on this? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  22:09, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say keep them both out of this template. The use of the wrapper template is not completely uncontroversial, so better not include any border line talk headers. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 22:16, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, it was something I was trying to use with the Ronald Reagan article, but it seems it was reverted because the next person didn't like it. So there really isn't a point in me pursing it. Just figured I would throw it out there, and I agree with both of what you all say. Thanks though!--Kranar drogin 04:41, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Since FAOL begins "WikiProject Echo has identified ", it looks like a WikiProject banner to my untrained eye. Anyway, it seems someone tried to add nesting support to FAOL sometime after this discussion, but they didn't quite do it right so it breaks WikiProjectBannerShell. I've redesigned FAOL and FAOLdone in my userspace to address this and a few other issues, and asked for comments here before changing the actual templates. Anomie 16:48, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Quality vs. Importance
The concept behind this template is good, but I think it would be better if the importance rating by project was displayed instead of the quality rating, since the quality rating will hardly, if ever, vary between projects. Importance, on the other hand, varies widely by project as an article that is low-importance in one project may be top-importance in another. The quality could still be displayed on the top line of the template somehow, but the importance should be what's displayed by project. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 20:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Each project can decide which information to display in their one line, since the coding is on the banner side. Project name, quality, and importance are the ones I've seen, but the project can decide.  If you have one you'd like to implement importance on, let me know. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  20:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but what I'd really like is a sitewide change as described in my initial post. Otherwise, it would look odd that one project displays importance when the others display quality. I guess a suitable compromise would be to display both classes, such as "U.S. Interstate Highway WikiProject (Rated Start-Class, High-Importance)". (1) Has this been done before and (2) is it possible based on the code? -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 14:24, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That's what I meant to say - the code on an individual project's banner is what determines what shows up on "their" line, the banner shell doesn't determine that. So one could go through the 254 currently compliant banners and add importance, but a) that's a lot of work, and b) one really should get the project's buy-in for that change. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  17:02, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * In that case, could the importance be added to WikiProject New York, where I (as the organizer of the project) doubt there'd be any backlash to the change? -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 20:25, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Yes check.svg|20px]] Done. :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 21:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but only the WP:PERU's banner does -- Andersmusician  $  04:13, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, the point is that other WikiProjects display class because they want to. If they don't want to, they can either change class to importance or they can ask someone here to do it.  It's really very flexible.  :) &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 14:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Biography questions
I already posted on Biography about the error in its implementation (WPBiography uses Portal, and as Disavian said colspan should be 3 rather than 2, but I also have one more question. Biography box has two options, needs-photo=yes and needs-infobox=yes which creates two new boxes, which are not hidden when the rest of the box is hidden. Should that be hidden, and if so, can some expert admin do that? Shinhan 15:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * WP:Bio discussed that when they implemented the nesting function and decided not to hide the boxes. &lt;shrug&gt; What can you do :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 17:09, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I can put small=yes in the WPBiography so those two boxes are small and right aligned :) Shinhan 05:04, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * You can remove needs-photo, for one, and put Reqphoto after WikiProjectBannerShell. It's still out in the open like they want it, kind of like the BLP notice, and it doesn't screw up the shell.  &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 01:04, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Is there something similar for needs-infobox? Shinhan 10:56, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Project Kansas
Project Kansas puts space above and below the box when nested. Any idea why or how to fix? Example: Talk:Coleman Hawkins --Shinhan 15:15, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeh - that project has a totally un-standard banner. I barely got it to work with the nesting code, so I left it like that.  Feel free to complain to them on their project page :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  17:20, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * How can I play with templates in sandbox? I'd like to try and find what exactly needs by using trial-and-error which is not a good idea when done on live templates... I mean, can I just type User:Shinhan/TestTemplate and it will transclude it correctly? (once I copy the Kansas template to my TestTemplate subpage) Shinhan 18:04, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yep - thats exactly right. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 19:15, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * After a little experimenting in sandbox to confirm my suspicions I have removed "margin-bottom: 15px; margin-top: 15px;" from style clause and it looks fine now. It can probably be also put back, conditional on nested=no if someone really wants it. would work for that (if put at the end of the style in first line)? Shinhan 05:21, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * That should work. Make sure the whole thing from  is inside the style quotation marks and it that will probably do it. Nice work :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  13:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

WikiProjectBannerShell & WPBiography major incompatibility
WPBiography needs more conditional code, to nest the photo/infobox sub-banners when nested=yes, or it renders WikiProjectBannerShell pretty much useless. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 22:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC)  PS: This is related to the  problem above. There are probably others. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 22:29, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * You need to bring that up with WP:WPBIO - they're in control of how their banner looks. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 22:38, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * needs-photo can be solved by taking out to reqphoto. AFAIK, WPBio doesnt want to hide needs-photo and needs-infobox boxes. Personally, Film's ArticleUpgrade box is much bigger eyesore. Shinhan 02:50, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Merge
Template:WikiProjectBanners has obviously been utterly surpassed in every way by this template (and its BannerShell add-on). It was a good "prototype", but it's time to fold it in. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 22:36, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh, no, we won't be doing anything of the sort. Per the numerous previous discussions, this template still takes up too much space. This one should be deleted and redirected to Template:WikiProjectBanners Raul654 23:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I strongly oppose both suggestions. I personally agree that WikiProjectBannerShell is far superior to WikiProjectBanners.  It is a lot more supportive of WikiProjects' efforts and a lot more conducive to communication.  On principle, I hate small templates, hidden-infoboxes, and the like.
 * However, WikiProjectBannerShell requires a supporting framework in every WikiProject's banner, and that's just not there at the moment. BannerShell is a fantastic workaround for this problem, but it's hardly a solution.  I would love to see community consensus towards one template or another, but I'm afraid it's just not going to happen.  Keep them both and leave it up to the editors of each article, who should be the ultimate authority.  &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 01:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Amen. I totally prefer this template but understand that others don't; there's room for both. And honestly, the "framework" is being added to WikiProjects exponentially, it may not be long before the job is done. TAnthony 02:02, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the compliment on :) That made my night. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 04:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

As the creator of and an early adopter of, I believe the merge proposal is premature. doesn't have all of the functionality of, but there are several reasons to put aside a merge for now. Given the very exponential and organic growth of this template, and the coding required to implement it on each page, it isn't something you can just redirect. Given the community's growing consensus and the relatively small number of pages that still use it, though, a merger isn't a good idea now, but it may be in a couple months. If you wish to be bold, you can go through Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:WikiProjectBanners and implement it on those 6000 or so talk pages, making the issue moot. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 04:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * As an addendum, the full functionality of the collapsed external box (i.e., replicating the appearance of ) may be easily added with a parameter on the outside box. I can make a mock-up in a sandbox if any of you are interested in that idea. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 04:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I was under the impression that it was not allowed to change WikiProjectBanner -> WikiProjectBannerShell. If it is allowed, I'll start asap. Shinhan 05:14, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Per mutual détente, I believe if an article already has one of the two, it's left alone. I know I've left off any articles tagged with "WikiProjectBanner" from the bot list that gets created regularly. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  05:27, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I was more referring to replacing WikiProjectBanners with WikiProjectBannerShell while using a collapsed external box (and thus, no apparent change to the page), a feature we (apparently) haven't implemented yet. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 16:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I like that idea Dasivian. Didn't you create one in a sandbox when this was brought up at the Village Pump? Tayquan 04:00, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Let me make sure I understand you though, you're saying that it would give the editor the option of formatting it according to the editor's preference like the one you made in your sandbox? Tayquan 04:01, 15 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Oppose, "utterly surpassed?" phhhhh ... Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 15:05, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose I like the clutter free version that collapses all of the banners. I agree with Raul. Marcus Taylor 17:56, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose I also believe the original version is far superior to this template. '  Tayquan' hollaMy work 23:51, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Despite the obviously POV "obviously utterly surpassed", WP banners shouldn't be the highlight of a talk page. If a user is really that interested, he may click Show.  Even though you don't pay anything for it, real estate isn't free.  /Blaxthos 02:59, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Protection hides documentation
editprotected

Please change:

to:

Since the protection has been enacted documentation has disappeared. After browsing several other protected templates I noticed this other way that is used for documenting protected templates. Nothing needs to be moved as documentation already resides at /doc subpage. Shinhan 15:46, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
 * ✅ Done. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 16:03, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
 * is that a criteria? think should be reverted -- Andersmusician  $  06:28, 10 June 2007 (UTC) forget it -- Andersmusician   $  06:30, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think the protection had anything to do with it. The template was coded to look for a page in the Template namespace named Template:template doc, rather than a subpage of the template's own page. By the way, rather than the solution we have now, wouldn't be a little simpler? &mdash;Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 08:38, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


 * WP:ILIKEIT, the problem would be that noobies might not see/read documentation without colors IMO -- Andersmusician  $  17:25, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Before protection everything worked and looked nice. After protection, with no other changes, documentation disappeared. Other protected templates that have documentation use . Therefore, in order to see anything at all, this is better solution. Shinhan 19:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

To-do
for project templates that want to be able to transclude rather than calling them an annoyance, why not add nested functionality to that as well? -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 16:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * (For those who are not aware, this is also being discussed at Template talk:Pokeproject.)


 * todo is not a WikiProject banner, and thus it doesn't need to be nested. It should be either included within the WikiProject banner's table, or it should be removed if the WikiProject banner is nested.  The only other WikiProject banner that transcludes todo is ProjectWUSTL (1/982 as of this writing), and that parameter supports a todo parameter which can be set to no to remove the TODO list.  I would prefer that it be opt-in rather than opt-out, but I'll take that up with the WikiProject at another time.  &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 16:48, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * uses it as well; however, I was careful to disable it (with )whenever the template was nested, and recently added code that disabled it whenever   was in the template call. Relevant code:


 * —Disavian (talk/contribs) 13:20, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

doesn't merely disabling todo subvert the orginal intention of the template? i think to-do should be able to be diabled in templates, only because multiple projects may use it and then we'd be left with multiple, redundant to-do lists. so in addition to adding that to project banners with to-do, how about adding a parameter to this template that appends to-do after the shell. that way people "shelling" the banners can keep project's intentions in-tact. -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 06:53, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't see a problem with disabling WikiProject banners' todo transclusions when the banners are nested in WikiProjectBannerShell.  If the TODO subpage is actually used, then those who are nesting the templates can put todo outside of WikiProjectBannerShell to keep its information intact while still reducing clutter.  This is analogous to removing req-photo=yes from WPBiography and adding reqphoto outside of the shell.  If an editor forgot to re-add the todo when nesting the banners, odds are excellent that another editor will notice and do so.  After all, if it's being used, people are going to notice that it's missing.


 * I would not, however, add a parameter to WikiProjectBannerShell. So far, parameters mandating that notices be placed outside the shell are for very good reason; they're practically a legal requirement.  So few WikiProject banners transclude todo that it's not worth it to add another parameter and have it potentially foul up bots' and editors' operations.  &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 07:32, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

i'm sorry for forking this... but two things. first, it's completely feasible to add an optional parameter "todo=yes" so that if people are remaining blissfully unaware it won't really affect them, you're argument is basically like having a parameter for every color except blue, and then when i come up to you saying i want blue as an option, you tell me, "well not enough wikiprojects use it so it's not worth adding." the second thing is your preference that to-do, if included, be placed within the project banner. the only thing i don't like about this is that when you have multiple project banners (an assumed case given this template's usage) placing the list in one project's banner makes it seem like the to-do list "belongs" to that project, when in fact it is meant to be a source for everyone. the result will end up with a to-do list in the middle of the shell. i'm going to make some changes to the PCP template, let me know what you think.... -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 09:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)


 * the only thing i don't like about this is that when you have multiple project banners (an assumed case given this template's usage) placing the list in one project's banner makes it seem like the to-do list "belongs" to that project, when in fact it is meant to be a source for everyone.
 * Which is exactly why we are against adding todo template inside any of the banner templates. Let the todo template be added completely outside of the BannerShell if needed (and wanted by the article writers) and that way make it shared by all the projects on the given page. &mdash; Shinhan  &lt;&thinsp; talk &thinsp;&gt; 13:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Which is exactly why we are against adding todo template inside any of the banner templates. Let the todo template be added completely outside of the BannerShell if needed (and wanted by the article writers) and that way make it shared by all the projects on the given page. &mdash; Shinhan  &lt;&thinsp; talk &thinsp;&gt; 13:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Which is exactly why we are against adding todo template inside any of the banner templates. Let the todo template be added completely outside of the BannerShell if needed (and wanted by the article writers) and that way make it shared by all the projects on the given page. &mdash; Shinhan  &lt;&thinsp; talk &thinsp;&gt; 13:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

If you'll recall my proposed compromise, I asked for a  parameter, giving you the option of having it be "opt-out" instead of "opt-in", even though I would vastly prefer that it be opt-in. As for the todo being inside the WikiProject banner... you were concerned about it breaking WikiProjectBannerShell. That's how to make it so it won't break WikiProjectBannerShell. If it's a part of the WikiProject banner (as it is, if it's in the template), it should be inside the banner. Sure, it'll look out of place and WikiProject-specific, but the existence of todo inside a WikiProject banner will always be out of place, because that's simply not where todo belongs. If you still want to use it, use it! But please, be respectful of your fellow authors' wishes? You seem completely unwilling to give at all, and I still haven't seen a single voice other than yours in support of that transclusion.

This discussion is getting tiring, and it's out of context on this talk page. So I'm just going to refer you once again to my attempted compromise. If you want to discuss it, use the Template talk page. If you're just going to continue to argue, or if you re-add todo without compromise of any sort, then I think it'll be time for mediation or an RFC. &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 14:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Collapsed
This is sort of a feature request/proposal: if users wish to collapse the external box (to give a visual appearance akin to ), then we could easily add a  parameter. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 13:24, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sandboxed version here: User:Disavian/Sandbox/BannerShell Test1
 * Example collapsed shell here: User:Disavian/Sandbox/BannerShell Test2
 * Is there a way to javascript that in? Say, put an id='nestingprojectbanners', then some javascript onload that collapses the box automatically? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  14:05, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Never set the ID of collapsible banners; it'll just be overwritten by Common.js. &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 16:48, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * So that banner haters can autohide BannerShell from within monobook.js? Shinhan 14:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * This might be enough to get the banner hiders to allow us to replace all instances of Banners with BannerShell! Shinhan 14:35, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no idea how to modify templates based on user styles... it would be an interesting feature, to be sure. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 14:33, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've made a JavaScript addition to my monobook.js that adds an "always hide" link on the left of the bottom row of WikiProjectBannerShell (info is on the right). If a user clicks the link, a cookie is set and the page is reloaded. When that cookie is present, WikiProjectBannerShell is transformed to look exactly like WikiProjectBanners, down to the container's background colour and border, the nested templates' width, the wording... it even removes the header added by nested templates to show/hide each banner individually. I've looked at sample pages with the transformed shell and with WikiProjectBanners, and they look absolutely identical.

What do you think we can do with this? Should we propose that this feature be added to Common.js? If it meets with community approval, should we seek consensus to merge WikiProjectBanners and WikiProjectBannerShell as proposed previously? Shortly I'll clean up the code and give it out to test as requested; it's a mess right now.

Thanks! &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 04:47, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * If the user changes their mind, do they just delete the cookie? —Disavian (talk/contribs) 06:46, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's how it is right now; I've been trying to think of a better way and have failed so far. Feel free to make suggestions.  :) &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 06:48, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I created a fairly elegant snippet of JavaScript that will actually add a checkbox to the Misc tab in Special:Preferences to turn the transformation on and off. The only problem is, almost no JavaScript is run for Special:Preferences, for security reasons.  If we wanted to implement this, it wouldn't work in MediaWiki:Common.js, or in a user's monobook.js, it'd have to be added to wikibits.js by a developer, and that would take a lot of persuasion.  &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 00:11, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I've changed it now so if you double-click the show/hide button, it toggles it to switch formats. e.g., you double-click [hide], and it'll refresh it, transforming it into a WikiProjectBanners.  double-click [show], and it'll transform it back into a WikiProjectBannerShell.  Please do test it out!  I'm on Wikibreak! &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 05:54, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

OK, the JavaScript should be fairly readable and usable now. Add the following line to your monobook.js to test it out. importScript('User:Madman bum and angel/WikiProjectBannerShell.js');

Cheers! &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 07:29, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

WP:BLP Special Case
Is there a way to have the WP:BLP notice regarding negative/poorly sourced info to always remain visible? I just keep that particular banner outside of WPB for the time being... it may automagically do it (I don't know). Figured I should ask/suggest first. ;-) /Blaxthos 03:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Im not sure I understand. When implementing BannerShell you should always add |blp=yes and this can not be done automatically. WPB = WikiProjectBanners? You'r keeping WPBiography outside of WikiProjectBanners because they collapse everything? WikiProjectBannerShell supports both BLP notice and active politician notice (|activepol=yes), is implemented in more than 900 banners and can be made to auto-hide by a simple javascript call. &mdash; Shinhan  &lt;&thinsp; talk &thinsp;&gt; 05:12, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Just to clear up confusion, he's been adding WikiProjectBannerShell but he just didn't know about the  parameter.  Blaxthos, just add   like so and you'll be fine.  &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 05:31, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

:)
Thought this might make some people smile. &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 00:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Report Generated: 2007-06-23 20:12:12
 * Category:WikiProject banners loaded in 3 seconds (live data).
 * Templates loaded in 122 seconds (live data).
 * Compliance evaluated in 0 seconds.
 * Compliance: 100%.


 * Yeah, baby! TAnthony 17:42, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

WikiProjectBannerShell vs. WikiProjectBanners
In case anyone's wondering, SatyrTN told me that as of 01:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC), 13054 talk pages bear WikiProjectBannerShell while 6143 use WikiProjectBanners. I know it's not a competition, but ... yay us! TAnthony 03:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Banner needing attention
WikiProject Pedophilia Article Watch/WikiProjectNotice needs to be adjusted in order to comply. __meco 01:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * ✅ &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 01:10, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And I've added it to the WP banner category. TAnthony 01:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Banner(s) needing attention
On Talk:Cowboy Copas, I noticed that a blank line appeared between WPBiography and Countrynotice unless I have removed any line breaks between the two as in Maybe a more template-knowledgeable person can take a look which of the two causes that. Regards, BNutzer 21:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That was a fun one, neither template on its own causes it. WPBiography contains an extra linebreak that interacts with a similar extra linebreak that was in Countrynotice. Removing either fixes this problem; I fixed one already and posted an editprotected request for the other. Anomie 00:25, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

WPBiography template: problem with needs-photo and needs-infobox flags
Please see Template talk:WPBiography. Regards, BNutzer 15:26, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * FYI, I left a quick message at the above location letting this editor know that WP:Bio had decided for themselves to basically leave these tags alone. TAnthony 15:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Both parameters are known problems. WikiProject Biography wants them in the banner shell, and we don't.  I suggest changing   to Reqphoto (placed outside the banner shell).  And  ... either you can just remove it, or you can add it to Category:Articles needing an infobox (better), or you can add an infobox (best).  &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 15:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

TOC getting embedded within nested banner
At Talk:Mississippi River permalink, the TOC has gotten embedded within the first wikiproject banner. Very confusing, since I got to the page the project banners were collapsed by default. I'm not sure where the problem lies, but is it very confusing behavior. older ≠ wiser 13:01, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems to be an issue specifically with the WikiProject Minnesota banner itself; its function to list quality comments is grabbing the TOC. You'll notice that the first comment on the actual talk page is "Myths" and yet it is the 5th item in the TOC-within-the-banner; the first four are the two comments from the /Comments subpage, doubled (!!!). I think it's probably a simple error somewhere within the banner code but I haven't yet found it. Anyone? TAnthony 13:55, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Both WikiProject Minnesota and WP1.0 transclude Talk:Mississippi River/Comments, which contains two headers. The auto-TOC insertion just puts the TOC before the first header; this is a feature of MediaWiki and has nothing to do with the particular banner. Since the first header is inside the WikiProject Minnesota banner, that's where the TOC ends up.
 * The proper fix would be to edit Talk:Mississippi River/Comments to not contain any headers. Another fix would be to add to the talk page to force the TOC to appear where it should be (it will still have 4 useless entries though). Anomie 14:41, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * For the record, Shinhan has made the fix by adding a TOC before the WP banners. TAnthony 22:52, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have to say, this is still a rather kludgey one-off fix -- it can't be that unusual, given the increasing proliferation of banner boxes and trancluded comment pages. It seems unlikely that people will just know what to do in such a situation. older ≠ wiser 00:42, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * True, but it has nothing to do with the nesting and will happen on any page with the "offending" banners and /Comment subpages. And as Anomie points out, a real fix is unlikely as it is related to behavior that even the banners themselves don't control. When I thought it was a banner issue I was actually looking for somewhere at WikiProject Council to seek the aid of editors better-versed in the intricacies of banner coding, but hadn't found anything. Perhaps this issue has occurred somewhere else or someone there can think of a better workaround. TAnthony 04:01, 29 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I think there is an unwritten rule to not write headers in /Comments. Somebody broke it and this is what happens. If you really want to find any page with potential for this kind of trouble, look for all /Comments pages that have at least 1 header. Also, this is not a BannersHell project, its properly WikiProject Council's. But maybe help can be found at Village Pump Technical?
 * Anyway, I see only one practical solution: write a rule forbidding headers in /Comments and other pages that are transcluded within templates. My adding TOC outside banners is only half a fix, because transcluded headers still appear in TOC. And that is the intended behavior (think RefDesk). &mdash; Shinhan  &lt;&thinsp; talk &thinsp;&gt; 06:30, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

WP Banner sample template compliance
Thinking forward, is it appropriate for us to add the nesting capability to the WikiProject banner code sample at WikiProject Council/Guide/WikiProject and WikiProject Council/Guide/Technical notes (and anywhere else it might be for instructional purposes)? It occurred to me that while some editors creating a new WikiProject banner may copy an existing one, others may go directly to the source. TAnthony 03:03, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The one on /Guide/WikiProject I would, since it has multiple examples, and they support  (it is a valid analogy.)  The other one is just a simple table, though, designed to be as simple as possible.  I'd like to add it, but I don't think it would be A Good Thing.  &mdash; Madman bum and angel (talk – desk) 03:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I decided to be bold and make the changes to /Guide/Technical notes. I also added Category:WikiProject banners into both of them, so new banners based on these examples will be more likely to be categorized. Anomie 14:02, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

BLP infobox gets hidden
It seems that the template is unable to show the BLP infobox. This should be addressed urgently. __meco 00:54, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm. Actually, if you include the |blp=yes to the shell, it shows BLP.  Like:


 * See Talk:Pete Williams for an example. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:15, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * See Talk:Pete Williams for an example. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:15, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I hadn't realized that it had to be placed there in addition to the living=yes. Shouldn't this be default behaviour? I have the impression that this hasn't been absorbed by many editors who use this shell. __meco 02:03, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say default behavior, since this template is used on everything from Talk:Aikido to Talk:Zen, neither of which would warrant BLP. However, either Madman or I can run a bot check to determine how many articles don't have the parameter when they *do* need BLP (i.e. they either have "WPBiography|living=yes" or blp. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  02:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I see. I figured the blp=yes checked if there was a living=yes in any of the nested templates, but I understand that it doesn't. Would that be possible? I think the bot-checking that you suggest is a good idea. __meco 02:19, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not possible. The template can't parse the enclosed banners to tell anything about them.  I'll see what I can do about a bot check. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)  02:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

editprotected
Can someone please remove Category:WikiProject banners? I talked to Woohookitty when I saw she was adding these and asked her to remove this one, but she must have forgotten. &mdash; madman bum and angel 16:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Yes check.svg|20px]] Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 22:13, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

importance=
Why does Film's importance parameter appear, but other projects' don't? —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93; ‹(-¿-)› 09:01, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's coded into the template to display importance when nested. The U.S. Roads WikiProject template is coded in the same fashion. To make importance appear on a template when nested, it must be coded into the template. -- T M F Let's Go Mets - Stats 09:05, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, cool beans. I know template code well enough to make more of them do that, then. —  SMcCandlish  &#91;talk&#93; &#91;cont&#93;  ‹(-¿-)› 09:37, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Compatibility for WPSchools
I would much appreciate if someone could add nested= compatibility to WPSchools. --Hebisddave 15:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)