User:Σ/Testing facility/TP/TpProt/199

Philosophers
I've met a real one. A pretty important one, as I understand it: Nicholas Rescher. Lou Sander (talk) 14:25, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not familiar with Rescher. In my 20s, I studied with Jacob Needleman but his Wikipedia article is pitiful. I'm surprised his students haven't made it more substantial. I guess I'll get around to doing that one day. He's had a long career.

Neutral notice
This is a neutral notice that an RfC has been opened at an article which you have edited within the past year. It is at Talk:Clint Eastwood. --Tenebrae (talk) 14:08, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

, thanks for letting me know. I don't recall editing that article but I'll check it out. Liz Read! Talk! 15:19, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

N94228
I think that N94228 misunderstands one of the criteria for speedy deletion. (It isn't clear whether he or she understands anything about Wikipedia.) Articles written by banned or blocked users can be deleted. N94228 apparently is concerned that he or she is about to be blocked, which may happen if he or she continues making idle accusations. However, the deletion rule does not apply to users who are blocked or banned after writing the articles. It only applies to users who are already blocked or banned, and so never should have written the articles, but were evading the block, typically by sock-puppetry. You are an experienced editor and knew that. The original question did not have to do with the article containing racism, which it does not, but with whether the author is blocked for racism. The author is likely to be blocked for disruptive editing, a different matter. Now that another editor has properly sourced the article, the article is unlikely to be deleted for any of racism (which it does not contain), lack of notability (established by another editor), or blockage of the author (which may happen but the article was validly composed.) Maybe N94228 is a racist, or is accused of racism. That doesn't matter unless he or she points racist drivel. N94228 almost certainly is a teenager. That doesn't matter; some young teenagers, let alone adult teenagers, can edit responsibly. N94228 is a disruptive editor; that does matter. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:56, 26 October 2013 (UTC) What is this about? Liz Read! Talk! 17:05, 26 October 2013 (UTC)


 * At WP:ANI, N94228 asked: "If I will be blocked for racism\vandalism\reason will my article be killed or they will stay in Wiki?"  You answered that if the article contained racism or vandalism, it would probably be deleted.  The article is not racist.  However, the author is engaged in disruptive editing, is exhibiting ownership behavior, and is being a diva without an entourage.  The author is likely to get blocked, not for racism, but for disruptive editing.  Is that an answer?  Robert McClenon (talk) 18:56, 26 October 2013 (UTC)


 * , thanks for the reference, it didn't ring a bell. Now I remember. I didn't look into the user or her/his contributions, I was just answering the question of if an Editor is blocked, are the articles they worked on deleted. It sounds like she/he might be heading for a block if they are being disruptive. Liz  Read! Talk! 19:01, 26 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, so that the question about whether the article will be deleted is the wrong question, and the right question is whether the editor will be blocked unless there is a change in behavior. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:32, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's usually a bad sign when an Editor calls it "my article". Staying off the noticeboards today and getting so much work done! Have a good weekend. Liz  <b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 00:37, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 23 October 2013
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Kate Winslet
Hi. I noticed you undid my removal of tabloid sources for contentious information on this article. On consideration, I have restored this edit. I made it in an admin capacity while enforcing WP:BLPSOURCES, so I'd be grateful if you could refrain from restoring it a second time. Could you instead take it ti article talk or (preferably) find better sources for this info? --John (talk) 08:34, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, John. But I don't know how an Editor (me) is supposed to know when an edit is made "in an admin capacity" and when it is a normal edit. How are these special edits distinguished from others?
 * Plus, I thought that according to WP:BRD, that the sequence goes, 1) Editor A makes an edit, 2) Editor B chooses to revert, then 3) Editor A goes to Talk Page to discuss the edit...not that Editor A re-reverts the edit. At least, I thought that was how Wikipedia was supposed to work based on what I've been told to do when someone reverted my edit. It's up to the original Editor A to go to the Talk Page and get consensus for their addition or deletion. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 10:24, 22 September 2013 (UTC)


 * talkpage stalker swoops in to suggest... that if an admin (or indeed any editor) wants to communicate some desire to future editors, of a page that they are about to edit, then the best way is to use a short HTML comment, placed 'in the editing path' so that the future editor cannot miss it.   There is in fact just such a secret future-editors-only comment in *this* paragraph.
 * Usually, if you are editing a mainspace article, and plan to put a hidden HTML comment in there, you should first create a talkpage section, and explain why future editors should be cautious, and then manually archive that talkpage section you just created (to prevent linkrot). Then, in the appropriate place on the mainspace article, put something like this:   &lt;!-- hello, please read http29823982932982322989823 on the article talkpage before you make edits here, thanks --&gt;     .... the only gotcha is that you should not utilize double-dash characters in you brief comment -- do not do that or this -- because they can confuse browsers into mis-displaying your stuff.  I realize you and John have been at this longer than me, but sometimes remembering wikipedia's five bazillion helpdocs is not so easy.  :-)
 * p.s. I prefer that editor A makes an edit, editor B collaboratively modifies that edit, goto step one.  But that's a rare mode of interacting nowadays.  Failing that, I prefer editor A makes an edit, editor B starts the talkpage discussion *before* just flat reverting (except for BLP or COPYVIO or NPA or blatant destructive vandalism or somesuch), then after some discussion editor B collaboratively modifies that edit, goto step one.  p.p.s.  Actually, I have a scheme slash proposal for colorizing edits, so that it was possible to see how long ago they were made... adding an admin-action-taken tint would be cool.  Anyhoo, time to swoop out again.  Thanks for improving wikipedia.  74.192.84.101 (talk) 03:09, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Indef blocks data
I just lost interest in it, or rather I wasn't that interested in it initially. The raw data comes from the database dumps, which are still being generated. <b style="color:#FF0000;">Hut 8.5</b> 09:32, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, <b style="color:#FF0000;">Hut 8.5</b>. I guess you need significant knowledge of coding to get this raw data into a manageable form to analyze? I don't have a background in programming. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 21:38, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The way I did it was extremely messy, but I don't know anything about the proper way. I would regenerate the data based on a more recent database dump, but the format of the dumps has changed and I'd have to rewrite the program. You might well be able to find someone who can generate this data for you. WP:VPT maybe. <b style="color:#FF0000;">Hut 8.5</b> 22:14, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've since learned that there were pitfalls when I chose to focus on qualitative research rather than quantitative research in my degree work. More stats classes and I could probably figure out this myself.
 * Thanks for the information, much appreciated! Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 22:30, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I have been curious about this subject as well, just this past few weeks... I have some programming skill, but knowing where to start, and what to look for, is often more difficult than writing the few lines of code that will give you the answer. (Knowing how to ask the right question is hard, in other words.)  So, in an attempt to ask the right question, is there still any interest here?  I don't understand the context of this conversation, or what the goal was, so that makes it hard to ask the right question.  As for my own interest, I have a hypothesis that users with specific editing-styles (as measured by percent mainspace versus percent talkspace and bytes-added-versus-bytes-removed per edit and such) will be banned less often by admins with similar profiles, and more often by admins with differing profiles.  Ping my talkpage if you or Hut_8.5 are also still curious, maybe we can figure out both our answers.  Danke.  74.192.84.101 (talk) 03:22, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Notice of External links noticeboard discussion
This message is being sent to inform you that a discussion at External links/Noticeboard is taking place regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. --MorrowStravis (talk) 18:37, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Category:Public philosophers
Category:Public philosophers, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. FreeKnowledgeCreator (talk) 20:25, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Categorization: redundant ‘parents’
I made some changes to the categories at Christine de Pizan, and thought I’d drop a line to explain. I haven’t studied the categorization guidelines; this is just what seems sensible to me. Since the category Italian women philosophers is included in Italian philosophers, it seems redundant to list the latter: being the ‘parent’, members of its ‘children‘ belong to it by implication. Likewise for the French. And since French women poets is included in French women writers and French poets (which I realize weren‘t among your additions—just while we’re at it), it can replace both of them.

BTW, I notice you’re using HotCat: if you click the superscripted plus-sign near the beginning of the category list, you can make several changes in one edit.—Odysseus 1 4 7  9  19:09, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Odysseus, please read WP:EGRS. Ethnic, gender, religion and sexual orientation categories are "non-diffusing" categories. That means, for example, that football wide receiver Dez Bryant is listed under both Category:Dallas Cowboys players and Category:African-American players of American football. Agatha Christie is not only in Category:English mystery writers but also Category:Women mystery writers.
 * Gender, race and ethnicity categories do not exclude the person from also being listed in the parent category. So, Ayn Rand is both in Category: American philosophers and also Category: American women philosophers (and both Category: Women novelists, Category: Jewish novelists as well as Category: 20th-century American novelists, too).
 * This not only is general practice but there was a big media to-do about this very issue back in Spring 2013 where Wikipedia got a lot of bad press for segregating women into gender-only categories. So, women authors were only listed as Category: Women novelists and Category: Novelists only contained male authors. A lot of work has been done over the past six months to rectify this. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 20:21, 27 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks; I hadn’t come across the “non-diffusing“ concept before. The Rand example is pertinent, but I don’t see the relevance of Bryant or Christie, because none of those categories includes the other. (Indeed, I note Bryant is not included in American players of American football—an oversight?) Anyway, I’ll restore the ‘parents’ at C. de P. & tag the ‘daughter’ categories accordingly.—Odysseus 1 4 7  9  20:53, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

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