User:Σ/Testing facility/TP/TpProt/796

Ebionites 3 Evidence
Hi Liz, I see you decided to contribute to the Evidence page after all. I'm glad you weighed in with a view of what happened on your talk page, and I'm also glad you said something about what John Carter did to Ret.Prof.

One of the things you noted in Evidence is how few actual edits to articles John Carter has made. I have looked into this in detail and plan to discuss it in the Workshop. If a contribution to article content is defined as a least one complete sentence supported by at least one reliably sourced reference, here is John Carter's last contribution to sourced article content: diff. On September 16, 2010, he created the Modern Ebionites section of the Ebionites article. Other than about a half-dozen pages of bibliographies (lists of references) created on or around Oct. 29, 2010 that is all. After Oct. 2010 there is not even a single sentence added to article pages in 3 years. This is relevant to Smeat75's point about John Carter's lack of understanding of reliable sources. How can someone who edits so little have so much to say on article talk pages about what everyone else should be doing regarding the proper use of sources? It will be interesting to see what other editors have to say about this in the Workshop. Ignocrates (talk) 22:43, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, Ignocrates, I won't pass judgment on your or his level of knowledge about the subject. My observation was purely from hanging out on the article Talk Pages and noting that John seemed to want the power of veto but he never followed up on your repeated requests that he contribute to the article by supplying other references. This seemed unusual because I do know that John edits other articles. My guess, purely speculative, is that he didn't want the kind of scrutiny he leveled at you to be laid on his contributions. I know that usually people who are judgmental are hardest on themselves.
 * This is simply my own observation, Ignocrates, but you have the advantage because, in general, you have remained civil and, as this dispute has continued, you stopped personalizing it and made it about the content. I urge you to continue taking the high road throughout the arbitration process. Refrain from reacting to provocative comments and just dispassionately present the facts as you see them. Since I know John has my Talk Page on his watchlist, I'd give him the same advice. Liz  Read! Talk! 23:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Another interesting point related to the above is that John Carter claimed on the Gospel of the Ebionites talk page that he recused himself from editing because of accusations of bias. When I called him out on this, he either could not or refused to produce any evidence of these accusations. However, in the process of digging for the diff I showed you above, I found these two: diff, diff. In these posts to project talk pages, John Carter claims he was accused of falsifying sources, not bias. I would like to know more specifics about this incident, as it may be relevant to the Workshop. Ignocrates (talk) 22:51, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Again, my advice above. In my view, less is more, you have strong points, you don't need to pile it on. This hearing is not an attempt to seek some kind of revenge but to clarify a dispute. You don't need to detail every misstep, just present your strongest evidence and answer any additional questions the Abitrators pose to you. My 2 cents. Liz  Read! Talk! 23:14, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Well said, thanks. Ignocrates (talk) 01:05, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Your mention of “sports“ at WP:AN
Hello, Liz! I just wanted to remark that the statistics collected on those user pages that are up for deletion were not about sports AFAICT: rather, it seems, a form of trainspotting for circulating banknotes, a hobby that’s unlikely to be the subject of extensive articles.—Odysseus 1 4 7  9  01:03, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Odysseus 1 4 7 ' 9 , I'll have to think a little harder to figure out "AFAICT", not sure what that stands for. But the pages I looked at looked like sports teams' rosters and the outcome of conference matches. But I just spot-checked 6 or 7 pages on that long, long list. L'iz  Read! Talk! 01:35, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry: “As Far As I Can Tell”. I only looked at a couple of those pages myself–a case of the blind men & the elephant, I suppose.—Odysseus 1 4 7  9  07:48, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Notice of External links noticeboard discussion
Hello, Liz. This message is being sent to inform you that a discussion at External links/Noticeboard is taking place regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MorrowStravis (talk • contribs) 22:45, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Whisperback
23:21, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Whisperback
00:11, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Errrrrrrrr. G'day!
I've replied. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 15:49, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know, Pdfpdf! Liz  <b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 15:55, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * No worries. As I've often said:  T'ain't What You Do (It's the Way That You Do It), and one of the reasons I enjoy communicating with you is because I like "the Way That You Do It". Pdfpdf (talk) 16:02, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * a) "Talkback" b) It's nearly 2am here - past time to "retire'. Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 16:13, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Goodnight, Pdfpdf! Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 16:18, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

''P.S. Regarding this, see the first sentence of List of Wikipedians by number of edits. (Or am I missing something?) Anyway - bedtime! Pdfpdf (talk) 16:27, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, you are right, Pdfpdf, there they are. They aren't very prominent though. I've looked over this page a dozen times and never noticed those links. So, thanks for pointing them out to me. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 16:44, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree with what you say, because I had to expend some effort to find them, and I knew what I was looking for, and I knew they were there ... somewhere. Pdfpdf (talk) 16:58, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Go.to.bed, Pdfpdf! ;-) See you when the sun come up down under. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 17:11, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Whisperback
08:58, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

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Teenly
I've been crying after reading that talk page and her contributions both the articles and other pages. I find it difficult to believe that she was as young as is stated but even if she was three times that age, well, what she had to offer was amazing. Life just isn't fair sometimes. - Sitush (talk) 20:24, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how you came across my question about Teenly, Sitush, you must have that Departed Wikipedians page on your Watchlist. Yes, it's hard to believe that a 6 year old was actually editing on WP and communicating with others. But her User Talk Page doesn't read like a hoax. And, in my years on Twitter, I'm pretty familiar with accounts that pretend to be sick children. This doesn't sound like those.
 * If you found her Page moving, read the note that mentioned her passing at User:Bwilkins ...I think any Editor would tear up after receiving a note like that on their Talk Page. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 21:32, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, the Departed page is watchlisted from the time when Tito Dutta was improving it earlier this year. I agree that Teenly is not a hoax. She was clearly a very gifted child, and I've known a couple. I just find it very upsetting: what we've lost and what she gave. I don't usually get too bothered about deaths or about children but reading of and around this particular one hurts. It seems that I have a heart after all but it is preventing me from editing right now, so I'm going to sign off for a bit. - Sitush (talk) 21:43, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, it's a surprise to me that WP brought a small child pleasure but with what she was dealing with, I'm glad it could provide a little distraction from her illness. Take care, Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 23:55, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

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