User:Σ/Testing facility/TP/TpProt/998

Please comment on Talk:Santiago B. Villafania
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"Many awards and orders categories are up for deletion"
I hope members of this WikiProject can weigh in on these discussions at CfD. - Hmmm. Yes, that would be nice, wouldn't it. But what's the incentive? As you are more than aware, the only successful communication I had was with you! Why would anyone try to have a rational conversation on that page when the major noisemaker has no understanding of, or interest in, the word "consensus", or any other POV than his own? I feel that your comment at the top of your talk page is an excellent summary of the situation. If you wish to discuss this topic with me via email, please feel free; I have the expectation that any public discussion will lead to "tears before bedtime". Never-the-less, despite my cynicism, I want to make it clear that I am encouraged by your reasonable and rational approach, and I am highly supportive of it. Please keep up the good work - far too many editors are, like me, throwing their hands up in the air and thinking that trying to have a half-way "normal" conversation is just too much effort. Best wishes, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:05, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You sound weary of debate, Pdfpdf. There is more than one Editor participating at CfD and it is Admins who determine the consensus view of a discussion at CfD. I actually had a similar question to yours and went to Admins to see how they arrive at it and close a discussion. Here is one response that I found helpful.
 * For good or bad, the answers you receive can depend on whom you choose to ask and some Editors are open and forthcoming in explaining the process while others provide answers that are less satisfying. If you strike out with one, I recommend asking another active participant in whichever area of WP you are focusing on, whether it is on an article Talk Page, noticeboard, WikiProject or policy page. I've also had luck at the Teahouse and the Help Desk...Editors working at these places volunteer to track down answers to questions. And those Editors who are welcoming and generous in explaining procedures and processes? I have them on my Wikipedia speed-dial!
 * If there are further discussions about these matters, I'll keep you posted and invite you to participate. I think the views of both those who are very experienced and those who are new to a decision process should be heard...from the former, you hear the voice of experience and from the latter, you learn what is confusing or unclear.
 * Thanks for posting! Liz  Read! Talk! 13:32, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks Liz. I'm glad that people like you are still around. Unfortunately, in my 6 years of experience of WP, I have discovered that people like you are few. And far between. (And yes, they are all on my speed-dial!) Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 14:01, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, Pdfpdf, although I first created an account in 2007, I only edited sporadically, mainly as an IP, until recently. So, while I'm trying to get wiser about the way things work here at WP, I still believe that positive change can happen if one gets sufficient support from others.
 * As a lone voice, you can be mislabeled as "disruptive" but if a group of Editors voices their support for a proposal, even if it fails to sway the majority, at least their voice is heard and a position can no longer be judged as "trivial" or "subjective". Maybe it's because my training is in sociology but I've seen change happen when allies work together where if it was just a solitary person, he or she would be hitting his or her head against a brick wall.
 * And because our cultures and social mores change, that means consensus changes, too....not in an "end of Western civilization" way but in a progressive way of improving our understanding of the world and each other. Well, that's my hope any way. ;-) Liz  Read! Talk! 19:14, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013
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Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 13:35, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Jumpstart website

Whisperback
14:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Ireland
Are you Irish? Sorry for the question, feel free to not reply if you don't want to.  Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  15:09, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm partly Irish. My brother is there right now, in County Tipperary, tracking down distant relatives. But like most Americans, my ancestry is a mixture of cultures. Why do you ask? Liz  Read! Talk! 15:16, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Just because I saw your post at the WP Ireland talk page and just curiosity, I admire Irish people :D<span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  15:47, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, Miss Bono, I just noticed your userbox page! Very impressive! I might use some of those.  Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 15:42, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and use them :D If oyu need one in particular just let me know and I'll be glad to do it or teach you how to do them by yourself. <span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive">  Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  15:47, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Here are two of my favorites! Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 15:53, 18 September 2013 (UTC)


 * What do you want me to do? <span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  15:59, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, nothing comes to mind at the moment! I'll let you know if I come up with any good ideas. Thanks for the offer! Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 16:36, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * ok, No problem. <span style="font-family:'Arial',cursive"> Miss Bono  [hello, hello!]  16:53, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Categories on "Africanization"
Greetings, You deleted Category:Human names from Africanization. I've responded with a comment and request for feedback at Talk:Africanization. TIA.--A12n (talk) 07:21, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * A12n, I removed all culture-based name articles from Category:Human names which contains articles about aspects of naming for human beings. Since Africanization concerns place names, I thought it was inappropriate to be included in this category which includes more abstract articles about human names such as Religious name, Patronymic and Personal name. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 12:06, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply. Not arguing with your choice wrt this particular category, but for clarification, "Africanization" has been used as I understand it for personal names as well as place names - and beyond that to the staff composition of civil services following independence). That's a fairly wide usage, but observed and described in these contexts as Africanization. I reordered some of the page content under various headings which may make that clearer. Would defer to your judgement on catting but feel it's appropriate to somehow account for this range of usage.--A12n (talk) 13:12, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * A12n, this sounds like a topic that is worth its own separate article, on Africanization of personal names. I'll look at the reordered article, as I might have missed this mention. Thank for addressing my concern! Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 15:47, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Hey you! respect my article! (Aeolus planet)
Hey you! Can not put this article in the elimination just because you think he is an essay that was made or invented in one day! I spent two months researching to write. I put the references and they are accurate. Learn to read in Italian and buy the book indicated to confirm. Hey I'm very upset with you administrators of wikipedia. I do an article, someone comes along and wants to eliminate. I modify the article then comes another unhappy and complains saying the change I made became Article inappropriate. You need to set parameters! This time I will not accept! I researched a lot and I did not invent anything that is written. Respect! Respect my work! You use parameters defined by wikipedia, but judge subjectively, as if they knew or were all, like doctors experts on the subject! There are dozens of articles like this scattered throughout wikipedia worldwide! see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theia_ (planet) # Theia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcan_ (hypothetical_planet)

http://wikipedia.qwika.com/it2en/X-Proserpina_ (astrology)

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Proserpina

https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyche_ (planet)

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyche_(Planet)

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transpluto

Now please stop me miserable, as do the other and go do something more productive! Will read about astronomy and the theory of hypothetical planets!

Ad Astra2013 AdAstra2013 (talk) 00:37, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by AdAstra2013 (talk • contribs) 00:21, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I placed the tag, AdAstra2013, because the article appeared to be your own original research. You are free to contest the deletion and improve the referencing to support your work.
 * By the way, this is English Wikipedia and knowing Italian shouldn't be a prerequisite for understanding an article. As for similar articles appearing on Wikipedias in other languages, I only participate on en.wiki so I won't pass judgments on decisions made there. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 10:36, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

2º epistemological round

Yeah, but either way, but should pay attention to the fact that in other wikipedias World , there are articles like this. This demonstrates quality standard and level things. FACT there are items in any other part of wikipedia dealing on the subject, it is prerequisite to validate the article , and you have the least notion of erroneous assessment has committed. Should pay attention to the fact that we live in a cosmopolitan world, and if you think that is inserted into it , have to be aware of things happening around you and that are documented as such in one language into another. Act contrary to it, only makes clear how limited is your horizon. Must answer three questions before judging my article :

I understand and know deeply astrology?

I understand and know deeply astronomy ?

The subject of this article is that a fact? Yes, because there is a lot of intellectual and physical events that support it.

You do not know Italian, but should have a minimum of epistemological understanding to judge information, and knowledge sharing. especially those in areas of knowledge that you do not know.

I can not go beyond what I have written in the article. Add more information would THEN write an essay and my interest is just PRESENTED facts. You should know that quantity is not quality, and that there are small items that say it all and are perfect , and while there are plenty of those who are confused a drug. This article reached your limit of information, as I said , anything will make him a trial. So be content. Around the world millions of people are interested in astrology and astronomy. But as you yourself made ​​it clear, do not know Italian and even have money to import the books that talk about the subject of the article. Because of this this article becomes the primary source for the subject. From it, anyone who speaks English , have knowledge of aa theory presented. Will know that there is a theory of a certain hypothetical planet, as well as other wikipedia is filled with articles on many different theories. And so the person can seek ways to enhance your knowledge on the subject. You, but what anyone else should have in mind that wikipedia is basic and quick source of information for many who do not otherwise have access. And remove my article is to deny people who like astrology and astronomy, in South Africa, Korea , Angola and even in the USA there is information about the fact.

Now you would like, please let me know to whom I look for , that is above you , to solve this problem. I want to know who will finish judging this issue and want to talk to him. Because from what I am seeing, it does not matter to you what will happen to my article.

AdAstra2013 AdAstra2013 (talk) 16:12, 17 September 2013 (UTC)


 * First, AdAstra2013, I don't understand much of what you've written. A lot of it is because I can not decipher what you are saying based on your use of English. So, I can not begin to answer all of the questions you seem to be asking.


 * Second, I simply put a tag on your article suggesting it did not meet Wikipedia standards. You can contest this judgment and defend your article but NOT HERE on my Talk Page. I will have no further involvement with your article and will not take any additional actions about it so it is not me that you have to convince. To reiterate, I placed a tag on your article and I've moved on to work on other articles. I have no interest in researching your article and continuing to post on my Talk Page will have no positive effect on the condition of your article since I will not be taking any further action on it. An appropriate place to talk about the state of the article is on the article's Talk Page (Talk:Aeolus_(planet)).


 * Finally, I recommend you read, thoroughly, "Creating article in wikipedia" which provides some guidelines on what is expected from articles on Wikipedia. Also, as the tag says,
 * "'If you can address this concern by improving, copyediting, sourcing, renaming or merging the page, please edit this page and do so. You may remove this message if you improve the article or otherwise object to deletion for any reason. Although not required, you are encouraged to explain why you object to the deletion, either in your edit summary or on the talk page. If this template is removed, do not replace it.'"


 * Good luck with your work! Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 17:00, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Great.

I know I will not make any difference post here. Cause the only cpisa you even know to do is tweak articles without prior knowledge for disposal. Still, thank you, you answered what I wanted. Furthermore, I will not worry about writing well in English for someone who has little knowledge and epistemological general.

Thanks genius! AdAstra2013 AdAstra2013 (talk) 16:03, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * AdAstra2013, we don't own any of the articles we create or otherwise contribute to here at Wikipedia; see WP:Own. Flyer22 (talk) 16:20, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Ebionites 3 arbitration case opened
You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Ebionites 3. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Arbitration/Requests/Case/Ebionites 3/Evidence. Please add your evidence by October 1, 2013, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Arbitration/Requests/Case/Ebionites 3/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 08:33, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know, Callanecc. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 10:37, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

I saw your note to the clerk, so I wanted you to know I'm finished presenting my evidence. Although I preserve the option make changes in the next 10 days, it's essentially complete. As you said yourself, for me it's all about the content. Beyond that, I can't discuss the specifics of the case. However, while arbitration is not to be taken lightly, it also presents a rare opportunity. If you have something to contribute that you think will help the encyclopedia, particularly the long-term health of the encyclopedia, please have at it. Ignocrates (talk) 22:57, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Ignocrates, I'm not sure about the mysterious "I can't discuss the specifics of the case" but I think I got pretty up-to-speed over the summer on the current state of this debate. My point to Callanecc was that the only evidence I could supply would concern incivility since the conversation about the history of articles and reliable sources is beyond my expertise. But I saw plenty of violations of AGF and NPA. But since you say this ARBCOM case is about content, then I'll just let the statement I made stand.
 * But it is nice to hear from you, Ignocrates. I hope your case gets a fair hearing. It is a lot to sort through! Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 23:49, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
 * P.S. Sorry to see that Ret.Prof deleted his account.
 * Just for purposes of clarification, ArbCom addressed only matters of conduct, not content. There have been repeated calls over the years for a content committee, but to date none such exist, and ArbCom most certainly is not it. It would be possible for ArbCom to in this case, as they have others in the past, request that the community make some effort to address content-related matters. When they do that, they tend to make the specific request of clarification or development of guidelines, and only once in a great while, like with one of the Macedonia arbitrations, call for respected editors independent of the case to offer a short term resolution of a content related dispute. And, honestly, I find the remarkably self-serving "it's all about content" line completely ridiculous, unless that refers to perhaps using content to advance a position. If it had been all about content, he wouldn't react as he has to me, In ictu oculi, and to an extent PiCo, when they propose changes which would make the content more consistent with policies and guidelines. Ignocrates has rather a long history of self-serving comments, though, and I guess that it would be more of a surprise to see that change than not to. John Carter (talk) 00:02, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
 * More incivility and personal attacks, John Carter. I find it baffling that you can't see it despite many people pointing out your continued negativity towards Ignocrates and how over-the-top it is. You make so many worthwhile contributions but this is a huge, enormous blind spot.
 * But ultimately, it doesn't matter what you, I or Ignocrates thinks, it'll be a team of Arbitrators sorting through all of the Diffs, passing judgment and coming up with solutions to this impasse. As I said to Ignocrates but I hope the case gets a fair hearing. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 00:20, 20 September 2013 (UTC)


 * By "I can't discuss the specifics of the case", I only meant that I didn't want to bias your presentation of evidence in any way. Cheers. Ignocrates (talk) 01:10, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, Ignocrates. I thought it was due to some oath you had taken. ;-) Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 01:36, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

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Grammar
No, it wasn't you. I wasn't sure if it should be Liz' or Liz's or some other grammar style that I'm unaware of.--v/r - TP 19:59, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
 * LOL! You know, technically, TP, "Liz'" is probably grammatically correct but I've only seen people use "Liz's" so that's I'm used to. Liz  <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 20:20, 20 September 2013 (UTC)