User:1900Driver

Hello,

You are correct to say that Air Canada does not directly serve Brussels from Toronto but to say that placing Toronto on the page "artifically inflates" is unecessary. Yes, it does have a different flight number and requires a customs check on ONE LEG (disembarkment not always required as quoted on website) but this route is served by the exact same plane, same international level flight crew etc. If you attemt to book a flight from Toronto to Geneva on Air Canada's website this listing will come up as a direct flight with one stop in Montreal, written exactly as "Geneva VIA Montreal" on the airport's website and at the airport when your waiting at the gate for the flight which I have in the past. Air Canada refers to this route aswell as their Geneva route in press releases, relations etc. as served from Toronto aswell as Montreal. So really nothing is being artifically inflated.

Sincerely,gdandsnahb

Dear gdandsnhb,

With all due respect, I strongly disagree with your response. Including Brussels/Geneva does in fact artificialy inflate YYZs rescheduled detsinations list. Please refer to see Wikipedia:WikiProject Airports/page content. Most airlines will include the aditional destination stops at the gate as well, but that does not justify a direct route. This is a common practise within the airlines industry. If you review the AirCanada timetable, you will see that Geneva is not a direct flight served from Toronto, but is only served via stop in YUL "1". If we were to include every scenario similar to this one at every airport, wikipedia would be artificialy inflated with information. Air Canada markets the flight as direct in order to attract clients from the GTA, but in reality; the vast majority of passnegers originate from YUL. Furthermore, the press release you are referring to, was drafted for the GTA area. The international ones were advertissed as GVA-YUL.

Cheers, 1900Driver

Dear 1900Driver,

Once again, in my oppinion this does not artifically inflate the page. I have been on both the Toronto-Geneva and Toronto-Brussels services and I am telling you that you are wrong, most of the Geneva and Brussels bound passengers did infact originate from Toronto, regardless of what you want to believe. If you did not know, a direct route does not necessarily mean between two destinations with no technical stops. If you attempt to book these flights it says that a disembarkment MAY be required, from past experience this was only required on one of the legs. I am familiar with the Wikipedia:WikiProject Airports/page content and what sets this route apart from the regulations you are refering to is that this stop is in the country of Canada and not outside of the country meaning it is not a 3rd freedom route etc. Air Canada HAS the local traffic rights on the Toronto-Montreal sector. And No, I am not reffering to a "local" press release whatever that may be. I am reffering to this http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=342. If you read what I was reading you would see that it says " with same plane service from Toronto" MEANING that the Geneva service originates in Toronto, i.e. the B767-300ER used on the route is based in Toronto, with a Toronto fligt crew etc. It also says, "This new daily non-stop service is great news for customers travelling on business, for leisure as well as freight forwarders as it offers more choice for convenient travel to Canada, the U.S. Central and South America via our Montreal and Toronto hubs." MEANING this service is marketed internationally as a great connecting opppurtunity for passengers VIA Toronto aswell as Montreal. Last time I checked Montreal had no AC service to South America or for that matter there is no Star Alliance carrier service from Montreal to South America, evidentally indicating the significance of the flight`s Toronto origination.

Good day, Gdandsnahb

Dear Gdandsnahb,  most of the Geneva and Brussels bound passengers did infact originate from Toronto, regardless of what you want to believe.

Look man, you really have to quit making ridiculous statements like this. The YUL->GVA/BRU is far greater in size to the YYZ, as it serves the French speaking population. Air Canada wanted to gain market share on these routes and compete with Air France/KLM. Especially BRU, as it was once a strong route for Sabena airlines. You must remember that 830/832 are also rapid air flights! So how did you come to your conclusions? Did you count the amount of pax continuing to BRU or GVA? The Toronto hub does try to attract European travelers, but is not very insignificant from markets like GVA. If anything, the swiss would be using the Zurich hub. Remember that the GVA area has a very small population.

Dear Whoever wrote the last comment, What ridiculous statements did I make? Read the official press release I provided for you. REGARDLESS of how many Geneva/Brussels originating passengers do continue on to Toronto, there is some or else their would NOT be a continuing service to Toronto regardless of what you would like to believe sir. Air Canada has cut over 5 routes in the last two months so I really doubt that they would keep up the Toronto continuation if there were no passengers on it. Where have you gotten your facts from if you think mine or so outlandish then, my first hand account is supposed to be inferior to your facts? Also I did not understand this ``The Toronto hub does try to attract European travelers, but is not very insignificant from markets like GVA. If anything, the swiss would be using the Zurich hub. Remember that the GVA area has a very small population.`` sorry what?

And finally regardless of every arguement had, be it the the amount of passengers, whatever, the postage of Toronto-Pearson on these pages still follows the rules set out for wikipedia Airport pages. This is NOT the same as persay Air Canada`s Toronto-Buenos Aires-Santiago route where Air Canada continues on to one country from another that is not Canada with no passenger rights. Air Canada HAS the local traffic rights on the Montreal-Toronto and Toronto-Montreal sector. Air Canada has the right to let people travel from Montreal to Geneva regardless if they were on the flight when it originated in TORONTO as it is a Toronto TO Geneva VIA MONTREAL service. And that sir is where you are mistaken.

Sincerely, --Gdandsnahb (talk) 19:07, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Dear gdandsnhb,

What ridiculous statement??? You're trying to justify passenger loads based on one particular flight in which you claim you were on. Obviously you don't seem to understand how airline networking works. The 763/333 serves the rapid air and continues to Europe, rather then wasting a slot time on 320. By having the aircraft start in YYZ, its a win/win situation since the market has become ultra competitive to YUL(porter, sky regional, westjet 10x daily). I never said that they should cut the route! The purpose of the airplane sarting in YYZ is to compliment the route out of YUL and to serve the rapid air.

sorry what? Do you even know what the population and market size of Geneva? Its not very big and Air Canada knows that. Air Canada makes their money from diplomatic travellers and French mutli national corporations paying a premium to fly direct YUL (U.N, IATA, Icao, etc...) Premium tickets is what the GVA market is all about! If anything, the Zurich hub is a better options for most of the Genevois, if they're looking to go to South America. Remember that the Geneva area is a French speaking and serves a link for Quebec. The number of travelers originating from GVA, that are proceeding to connect out of YYZ and beyond, is very minimal. Now, just to make it clear. The YYZ hub does attract European passengers (a lot of xborder pax), may be the case for BRU.

Dear Person,

I did not try to justify passenger loads based on the flights that I have been on, I used them to support my arguement if you saw that as the main point of my messages to you then you really need to go back and read what I wrote to you. And the "sorry what" was referring to your poorly written statement which was confusing. ``The Toronto hub does try to attract European travelers, but is not very insignificant from markets like GVA.``. Listen, I'm not here for you to school me on population demographics in Europe. Once again you have completley missed the point of this discusson. Who cares if the people of Geneva should go to the Zurich hub which is a better option, that's not the point, they can do whatever they please, the press statement lists connections to South America as a key point of this service THERE IS NO STAR ALLIANCE SERVICE FROM MONTREAL TO ANYWHERE IN SOUTH AMERICA. Hmmmmmm I wonder what that means, oh maybe they'll connect VIA Toronto where there is countless services to Central and South America through Air Canada aswell as a Star Alliance partner.

But once again regardless of the travel preferences of the `Genevois`, connection oppurtunites etc., there is nothing wrong, inncorect, artifical or whatever you want to call it with putting Toronto on these pages. This information is officiated through press releases, legal traffic rights on each leg of the service, the GTAA web site and at the airports! You are wrong, good day.

Sincerely, --Gdandsnahb (talk) 22:22, 22 May 2011 (UTC)