User:23skidoo/Archive8

Bill Haley history
Dear Skido:

Allow me to introduce myself: My name is Edward Dixson and I am a son of the man who co-wrote the song Dim Dim The Lights.

A lot of what I see written about Bill Haley regarding his playing R&B is seriously wrong.

My father knew Haley and Alan Freed. Besides that I like to go to the original source (besides my father) if possible to get information. That means listening to archive radio shows and researching original articles on a topic of the times regarding the subject in question.

I researched Variety Magazine articles dating late 54 and 55. One article topic read "R&B Big Beat In Pop Music" (Wednesday, January 19, 1955/page 49. The article starts off saying, "The big beat in the pop music biz these days is rhythm & blues and the top name in the r&B field today is Alan Freed."

Alan Freed was a white DJ from Cleveland Ohio who played R&B music on his show. When he came to the WINS Radio station in New York he did the same thing. I listened to some of his radio shows archived at the Museum of Radio and Television in New York.

Back in 54 and early 55 his "Rock n' Roll" show lineup consisted of all Black R&B acts. His Rock n' Roll Party (the first "rock n roll" concert) held at the St. Nicholas Arena, which was by Columbus Circle, New York, back on January 14 & 15 1955 consisted of an all Black R&B roster.

What is apparent in the article and listening to his radio shows is that his use of the term "rock n' roll" was synonomous with R&B. This is supported by my father's account. Freed had his reason. But my father said that Rock n' Roll was a phrase used by Black people that meant: having sex, jamming to music or music that jams. It was very common to hear someone say, "I love this Rock n' Roll music." But that meant R&B music. More about what Elvis and Haley said about R&B later.

Now Freed did show an interest in Haley as early as 53'. Haley came on his show in Cleveland. From my father's recollection and studying Freed History on my own I think it is a fair statement to say that if Freed was going to capitalize on R&B and catapult it world wide he needed a white ambassador to do it. You can't forget the racist country we were in back in 54'. Freed thought Haley could be that person. And Haley thought he could be that person. Sam Phillips (another passionate person about R&B who was in fact an R&B music producer) thought he found that person in Elvis. Sam Phillips had said this already.

But not even Freed was willing to endorse Haley until he was endorsed by the Black music audience. "Freed doesn't usually play versions of the r&b tunes made by the top pop artists because they are imitative of the originals, which are usually made on the indie labels. He claims, moreover, that his audience quickly detects the Jack of authenticity in the cover slices.  He believes that pop artists will have to come up with original material in the r&b genre." Page 54. Who is Freed's audience? Black people and whites listening to this new (to them) underground music. So from this we gather that Freed would be looking for a white artist playing original material in the r&b genre if he is to endorse such artist.

Now this didn't stop Pat Boone and these guys from getting on the Pop charts. But they weren't going to get on a Black radio show formatted in the R&B genre, therefore not getting on the R&B charts.

Freed could have played Rock Around The Clock on his show back in April 54' because he knew about him by then. I say this because RATC was an original tune. But apparently if he did or didn't the Black record buying audience didn't buy the record. And other Black radio jocks didn't play it either the first time around.

By his own admission he wasn't going to play Haley's SR&R. You yourself said there is a clear distinction in his version and the original. And maybe Freed was afraid to take a chance. But he did play Dim Dim The Lights. So did many other Black DJ's. Why that was so I don't really know. But the same way I (being Black)could get an opportunity to listen to a white artist now similar opportunities existed back then and visa versa. And by 54' it was very possible to hear Black artists on Pop radio. Therefore it is logical to believe that Black people also purposely listened to white stations once they heard their favorite r&b song on a white station by happenstance or some other way.

But the fact is that the Black record buying audience viewed DDTL as a R&B song performed in the R&B genre. And so did Black DJ's (some of them who are still living like Eddie Castleberry - from Ohio, who I happen to personally know). And white artists prior to DDTL did not get played on Black radio programs where there were Black DJ's or white DJ's (there were only a handful but Freed was the first)playing authentic R&B music in the early 50's. Having my father's account to go by and articles stored on micro film support this. Also looking at Billboard Magazine showing DDTL airplay supports this. So these are facts not theories. And it is also a known fact that the white record buying crowd would and did buy certain R&B records in 54'. Thus if Earth Angel is on the pop charts selling records in 54 and 55 white folks could have bought DDTL thinking they were buying an R&B record too. Furthermore, there is nothing to suggest (other than a change of lyrics from time to time)that if Perry Como or Pat Boone covered a R&B tune that they didn't think they were doing a song in the R&B genre either. It's just that most white DJ's wouldn't play an authentic R&B song then but would play it if a white artist sang it. Likewise, there is nothing in history to suggest that if an R&B song got played on white radio those DJ's didn't think (or their audience)they were playing or listening to a R&B record.

And perhap, maybe many Black DJ's didn't know Haley was white in late 54'. Once several Black DJ's started playing the song others joined on when they saw a positive Black response or got requests.

But you tell me, if a song gets on the R&B top ten and also gets on the Variety Top Ten wouldn't that be a bigger record than a song only getting on the Pop Top Ten? And FYI back then songs charted mainly due to their record sales not radio play. That came later.

So how does it happen that RATC gets to be in the BBJ soundtrack in the first place? The way that I said it did. This is quoted in numerous publications and has never been disputed. But that didn't happen until February 55. You think an 11 year old girl was playing a record that was released back in April of 54 in February 55? Not hardly. But if the record was new to her she would. That could happen if record stores tried to get rid of their leftover RATC's after the success of DDTL. This is normal Record Retail practice. That's why you can see Rock Around The Clock getting Juke Box play on the peak of DDTL when viewing the Variety Top Talent And Tunes Chart of January 12, 1955. That chart primarily calculated the popularity of an artist based on Jukebox play, retail disks and retail sheet music. However, the song would have to be selling considerable discs to make it to the Retail Disk Best Sellers Chart. RATC did not do that back in January of 55. But based on the strength of DDTL it got another serge which by chance it got the opportunity to get on the BBJ soundtrack.

So by March 55 Black audiences and white audiences were feeling Haley. That is evident by DDTL, RATC and See You Later Aligator. However, it wasn't the success of the movie that made Decca Records rerelease RATC. It was the success of the soundtrack album. Decca saw no reason why it couldn't capitalize specifically on RATC and Haley's popularity. It went number one on the chart when it came out as a single based on its record sales. But a correct analysis of the history based on facts of the times indicate that RATC got its second chance off the tails of DDTL, which was Haley's biggest record prior to RATC's second release.

As far as what Haley thought about his music, there are many audio clips out there where he states that he liked playing R&B. He never said Rock n' Roll. He said that he would moonlight as a R&B act not a R n' R act. You don't think that Haley wanted to be authentic in the genre of R&B? To suggest otherwise would be an insult to his legacy.

Except for Freed using the phrase "Rock n' Roll music" you can't find it in any archive being associated with a white artist. You can't find it being used by a white artist prior to 55'.

After 55' and the success of the movie the term Rock n' Roll is used as a genre of its own with Bill Haley and Elvis leading the way. Elvis became the second white artist to cross over with Heartbreak Hotel. He got higher than Haley did. I think RATC only made it to number 3 on the R&B chart. But the point is Haley and Elvis went along with the Rock n' Roll program because they were the benefactors. Of course if you read or hear them talk about Rock n' Roll later they are consistent with Freed's ambitions.

But since Bill Haley didn't get validated until 55' various accounts of what is the first Rock n' Roll song are floating around out there saying this year, this song, etc., etc. None are based on facts, only specualtion based on theory. And none go back further than 53'. I do know that white people feel better saying that Bill Haley is the father of Rock n' Roll music or Elvis rather than Little Richard or Chuck Berry.

What's clear by factual history is that you won't find anyone saying anything about Rock n' Roll music being the hybrid genre of R&B and Country music until after 55 or maybe 56. And that's because Haley or Elvis have to be the originators. Haley has a CW background but technically Elvis doesn't. But because Elvis is white and he was Haley's successor people assume his background is in CW.

Now about Country Music. It was first called Country Blues. Before it became a recorded music it was refered to as White Boy Blues.

Jimmy Rodgers is considered to be the father of Country Music. He is the first Country artist to be recorded. Anybody listening to his music that has a knowledge of and ear for music genre would clearly say that he was doing blues. His history even shows that he was taught by Black Blues artists. He even recorded a record with Louie Armstrong. That was indeed a first. Even Country Western Swing and Blue Grass sound like a Black music genre. Their roots don't have anything in them other than a Black music genre: Dixie, Jazz, blues, etc.

What did happen was that if you weren't doing blues, jazz, r&b or Pop music you got put in the category of Country Western. Roy Rodgers wasn't doing authentic CW. But he got put there because that's where all cowboy types got placed.

Now when you talk about Honky Tonk that changes up a little. But still you can hear its Blues roots. Haley was doing ballads and Honky Tonk before R&B. But if CW was uptempo it followed a lot of R&B structure. This means as R&B evolved CW evolved following R&B's lead.

Now I will admit that yodelling, the steel guitar and the fiddle was used in early Country Music. But that doesn't mean the genre or the style of the music is different if those instruments are or aren't used. Otherwise we can call every interpretation it's own genre. Haley took the doubling up on the fiddle technique applied it to the guitar and continued to use a steel guitar in his version of R&B music. Does that make what he did something other than R&B? Of course not. If you really get technical, Haley was doing R&B more like it was done in the 40's.

But where did that doubling up technique and steel guitar come from in the first place? I have recently read articles stating that a guitar was used first with the doubling up and the fiddle was just copying the guitar technique. And the first person to use a steel guitar was a blues artist. The fact that it was not commonly used in blues doesn't take away its origins. Blues artists tried to be original and wanted to have their own identity. If more than 5 blues artists were doing a particular thing the rest of them or newcomers weren't going to neccessarily follow. But how Haley was introduced to the technique probably was through CW and not a direct Blues connection. However, that doesn't change origins or roots.

I hope that this was informative and helpful. I have a direct interest in seeing that the history of R&R and my father are written accurately. So I will give you an opportunity to make changes otherwise I will make them.

Yours truly,

Edward

Copyright 2006 Edward Dixson
 * Interesting comments. It'll take a little while to go through them all. I'm curious about your reference to a "soundtrack album" - I assume for Blackboard Jungle. There was no such release and I can verify that via numerous sources. Your comment about Freed not playing RATC is on the money, because at the time the song came out Decca and Milt Gabler were promoting Thirteen Women, a song that wasn't very popular with audiences. It wasn't until the movie came out -- and Shake Rattle and Roll and DDTL became huge successes - that RATC finally hit. Occasionally I wonder if a lot of the attention given to RATC shouldn't instead go to SRR or DDTL, but RATC was recorded first so it wins by precedent. 23skidoo 21:13, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Help Please. Personal Information
hey. I'm having problems with a page about me. I'm a male porn star, and I like to keep my personal information to myself..... I keep editing my birth name from my page, but some clown keeps putting it back on, and also anyone can just review the history and have it. PLease help me, I would like the article deleted, if you would please. With my personal information out there on the web, I could have random people finding me and god knows what they would do. I thank you for your time, and hope you can delete my page - ROMAN HEART is what it's under.

Thanks

Garrett

Star Trek/Doctor Who actors
Olaf Pooley is another example, from Inferno (Doctor Who) and Blink of an Eye. Unfortunately it looks like a list of the type Actors from both Babylon 5 and Star Trek would go down like a lead balloon! Tim | meep in my general direction 17:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

What happaned to poor Magmatron?
I wrote a page with one picture for a Japanese Transformers character named Magmatron on March 1st. I wrote it, printed a copy, then went home. I even added links on other pages which mentioned him. The next day the page was completely missing as if it never existed. Any idea why? Thanks for your help. user talk:mathewignash

Can anyone provide me the first paragraph of that page which I wrote? It at least can't be called a copyright violation, I wrote it. Thanks user talk:mathewignash

re:
I looked into it and cleaned up the talk page. If I happened to have removed a discussion by mistake, please feel free to restore it. I pretty much just got rid of everything by him that didn't appear to do anything to help improve the article per the Wikipedia guidelines. I have no idea who Bill Haley really is so theres no way I can patrol all the articles and correct them. You might want to do it. It might be worth adding talkheader to the top of them just as a general warning to other editors. On bigger discussion pages (ones that get a lot of traffic) you may want to consider putting up a notice - see Talk:Lost (TV series) as an example. Even though you are involved, unless it is questionable, you should be able to clean up the talk pages yourself since this is Wikipedia policy - see WP:NOT, specifically: "Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought" and "Wikipedia is not a soapbox." K1Bond007 20:43, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well it's not something you should go around doing all the time, but it did violate policy and thus could be removed in extreme cases - IMHO. K1Bond007 03:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well theres not much I can do. Just clean up and warn him again I guess. I'll see what I can do. K1Bond007 23:06, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * RFC probably isn't necessary. I left a note on his talk page. I'll keep an eye on him and if I have to, block him for a blend of disruption and exhausting the community's patience. I've already warned him before and he ignored it. I should have said something then or probably blocked him then. I guess I was feeling lenient at the time. K1Bond007 23:18, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

What's that???
Koenig well, I see that you're trying to explains things to him... you sincerely have all my sympathy.

I kinda have the feeling I'm sticking my nose where I shouldn't but I saw some things that quite afflicted me, like you message "I just noticed that in the talk page to Bill Haley you signed my username to the "Homage"." : I can't believe he still do that... there's no way it can't be blamed en newbism !...since he started participating in fr.wikipedia since august 2005. he did that knowing it's forbidden and all.

Same, he was told, too, that writing on other's user page was NOT a great idea, but still seems he never learns.

Well, I know that person since I've (like many other) had some problems with him on fr: like his horrid tendancy to mix "articles talk page" and "Koenig's personnal blog" and various things. If you're looking for informations about his "good deeds" on fr:, my talk page is wide open. (but since I don't go see en: often, I'd prefer any wanser to be put there)

have a nice day.

fr: sysop Darkoneko 01:05, 1 March 2006 (UTC) Stephan KŒNIG 03:19, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Edward..
...wrote the finest lines: I do agree with him. Stephan KŒNIG 15:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Bill Haley DECCA SESSIONS and more missing...
...Did they pass away? Where are they? Stephan KŒNIG 15:59, 5 March 2006 (UTC) Can you tell me where I can finf the "Essential discography"? Thanks. S.K.

Who told me...
...his real Christian name was Rudolph Clemente??? I changed Rudi/Rudy with that fake info, indeed! But P O M P I L L I I is perfectly correct!!! Stephan KŒNIG 16:42, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

More fun with 23 Skidoo
Hi there. Don't know if you've seen this, but 23 Skidoo is also the name of an enigmatic a capella group in the comic Smithson. Your username caught my eye, so I thought I'd pass on the link. Cheers! --Cantara 04:01, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Self-improvement
Hello from an Indian wikipedian. I have been around here for about a year, including being an administrator from 18th September 2006. I request you to kindly do me the favor of providing me your valuable comments and suggestions on my contributions, activities and behavior pattern. I shall be awaiting your free and frank opinion, which you are most welcome to kindly give here. Thanks. --Bhadani 15:49, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationales -- commented-out text
The commented-out text instruction at Image_description_page has been there for a while, but you are quite right that it is rare to see it in articles. Having some kind of "pre-emptive rationale" on the image description page is, at least to my mind, the higher priority anyway. That said, having a note in the actual article does at least indicate that an editor has thought about whether the "fair use" rationale actually applies to that article. Jkelly 19:14, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

It's been there for a while. I had to do it for all the images on Thunderball before most people would even support it. I think I even had a discussion about this before with you. In anycase, most images dealing with Bond - at least the ones upped by you and me - have rationale. I took care of them all a while back. Example: Image:LicenceRenewed.jpg. You uploaded it, but I edited it with all the copyright information and rationale. Did this specific one last September. K1Bond007 20:12, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Re: No. . K1Bond007 20:15, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Please See..
Please see the "discussion" section of the Stephen Yan article, then delete this comment. Both you and I are in agreement on this one. - Abscissa 21:04, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Re Glenn Ford's red links
OK, but the vast majority are obsolete (dating back to 1937) and are unlikely to be written up. But whatever you think is OK. 64.105.74.7 01:30, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Doctor Who themes
Possible. Under Doctor Who theme music? --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 23:46, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Unwanted interference
Unwanted interference

I notice you altered the page i edited on HMS smiter,

last time i looked you werent in the UK navy, you arent in the unit and you know nothing about it,

I would therefore be obliged if you'd mind your own buisness rather than interfering where you have absolutely no place to. When you know something about the issue then you can use your critical judgement.

I trust i shall not have to come across you again and your unhelpful arrogance

just another point - i had nothing against Norway but you have given me a reason for distaste as you represent them - try and be a better representative of your country.

One more point, i couldnt care less if you block my ip for sending you this message, it just shows how incapable you are of managing a situation.
 * On the off chance the anonymous user who left the above notice comes here, I have no idea what you are talking about. I have never edited the Smiter article and I am not from Norway! I blocked your IP address yesterday because someone was using it to vandalise userpages, however since it was a shared IP I chose not to permaban the IP even though it is within my power as an administrator to do so. Please review WP:OWN for the policy regarding "ownership" of articles. There is no such thing. 23skidoo 17:35, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Laurie Anderson "POV" stuff
Regarding your reverts of my edits, and this comment on my user discussion page, copied here for context:


 * Unfortunately, I have to side with the editor who removed descriptive terms like "stirring" from the Laurie Anderson article. Yes, it makes the article somewhat bland but unfortunately those are the rules. To use terms like that would be a violation of WP:NPOV because it indicates a point of view. The way to get around this is to find a quotation from a reviewer and include it (making sure to properly cite the source, of course).

This is bullshit. By your lights, the following should be stricken from the article on Jimi Hendrix:


 * Further success came with the incendiary and original "Purple Haze"
 * ... and the soulful ballad "The Wind Cries Mary".
 * ... an explosive 12-minute rendition of his anti-war epic Machine Gun.
 * He belted out a dismal rendition of "Who Knows" before snapping a vulgar response at a female who shouted a request for "Foxy Lady".

There are more, but I won't belabor the point. The point being that, yes, accuracy and verifiability are good things, but on the other hand, there seem to be armies of anal editors like yourself scouring the place daily, apparently intent on draining every drop of blood from each and every page to make it more "encyclopedic". Since when does "encyclopedic" mean "tomblike", or "ossified"? Does one need to get approval or conensus (or exhaustive documentation) for every descriptive adjective one uses? Context, man, context.

By the way, more and more it appears to me that anyone using that little Wiki-in-acronym "POV" is an unthinking Wiki-robot or automaton. The phrase, and indeed the very policy, are quickly losing any meaning they may once have had. Better to use real words (again, descriptive adjectives) like "biased", "prejudiced", "subjective", etc. --ILike2BeAnonymous 20:08, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi ILike2BeAnonymous. I think you mistook my curt edit summary for something akin to a hand in your face accompanied by a "oh no she di'int".  This is not the case.  I agree with you 100% that the majority of the articles at Wikipedia are very clinical and are not very fun to read.  But, the articles here have to conform to a neutral tone .... it's an encyclopedia not an editorial.  I should have explained the reasons behind my edits more thoroughly.  Sorry.  Well, that said, I hope this hasn't soured you as an editor and that you will stick around for a while.  [[Image:Monkeyman.png]]Monkeyman(talk) 02:02, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Judy Garland
I'm still quite new here, I'll try and remember to leave redlinks! Thanks, LBM

Star Trek episode naming convention
Please comment on my proposed change to the episode naming convention at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Star Trek. Cburnett 01:13, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Bragi F. Schut
He is a real person.

Reverted page move
I have reverted your page move of Kira Nerys to Nerys Kira. Please explain on the article's talk page why you feel this is necessary and attempt to get some consensus before moving this page again. Thanks. 23skidoo 02:42, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Excuse me all names on wikipedia follow the western order, in other words First name (given name) then Last name. I explained myself adequately in move summary. What more is there that needs to be explained? -- Cool CatTalk 10:17, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

E. Pluribus Anthony pretty well sums up my objections and the objections of others so there's no need for me to parrot him, while CBurnett also states a further case on the Kira Nerys talk page. Cheers. 23skidoo 15:54, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Still I think the right otder is Nerys Kira regardless after all thats how we got all japanese names on wikipedia. All of them folow this pattern. I am not the kind that jolts through the universe enforcing guidelines so I want you guys to agree with this. Her name is not Kira, her name is Nerys. Now her last name is Kira. Why do not we follow the pattern?
 * All japanese websites refer to anyone japanese with lastname then first name. In japanese culture people are generaly referanced by their last name if fact it would be disrespectfull to call someone by the first name unless one is intimite. Why does this matter, well, we have something similar in Bajoran culture apperantly. Many on screen referances explain us her given name is Nerys so Why cant we follow first name last name format? -- Cool CatTalk 18:57, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * According to the Star Trek WikiProject main page, we follow strict rules of canon. Find one canonical reference that indicates that Kira Nerys was ever referred to as Nerys Kira (or Laren Ro, or Ital Odo for that matter) and we'll look at it. You won't find one. I in fact refer you to the TNG episode "Ensign Ro" in which it is clearly stated in canonical dialogue that it is incorrect to use the traditional "western" form of names. 23skidoo 20:07, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You see wikipedia is not yet run by the federation and Bajorans can file a complaint to the Jimbo and let him consider. :) The thing is this has nothing to do with cannon but more about how wikipedia names always appear. We are folowing cannon, I am not giving him a third name or modifying spelling etc.. It is how the names apear on wikipedia, same goes for all Japanese names. No Japanese is ever called by the First name and then Last name (ever) by the Japanese. I am using the Japanese as an excelent example of western dominance in naming on En.wikipedia. -- Cool CatTalk 20:35, 19 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I've already my case elsewhere, but the Japanese are wholly irrelevant. Even at the die-hard Star Trek site Kira Nerys is spelled the same way as WP.  And for crying out loud, startrek.com calls her Kira Nerys.  You don't get any more definitive than that.  Japanese naming conventions have absolutely nothing to do with a fictional culture.  You're making something out of nothing. Cburnett 01:19, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Craig
I already conceded that there really isn't a general consensus on Craig. I think most -fans- are pretty open to him or supportive of him especially after becoming familiar to the U.S. audience, which he wasn't prior to 2005 (CBn for instance is pretty supportive), however, the general public is probably a different story. I changed the article to make it more neutral. There are arguments on both sides, but his edits were obviously pushing the anti-Craig agenda. K1Bond007 22:20, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well.. theres some problems with that, but it's essentially true. First, she is pleased and confident (most likely anyway) that Craig will be good, but it's not really a factor for them starting pre-production on Bond 22. Craig is under contract. That's all. He's got the standard deal last I heard. 3 films with an optional 4th through 2012 (Dalton and Brosnan had the same deal AFAIK). I saw the interview where Barbara is specifically asked this same question. She said it was an original story only because they wanted to know if they were ever going to remake the old films or rather, re-do Fleming. She said they wouldn't do that, "but as the saying goes, 'never say never'." It is a direct sequel to Casino Royale. That's really all that is known (written by Purvis and Wade). I'd bet Bond 22 will have the essence of LALD though - Bond being more vengeful etc. K1Bond007 17:01, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

CR theme and Whittingham
No CR theme has been chosen. The latest rumor is that Bono and Tina Turner are doing it or just U2 (Barbara is big fan of U2 so it wouldn't be a shocker) otherwise no buzz at all on it since Tony Christie claimed he was writing a theme for it a long time ago - like before Craig was cast (many bands/singers normally do - this doesn't mean anything either). The actual announcement should be soon I would think. By comparison Madonna was announced on March 15th for DAD.

About Whittingham. I think thats over. I don't really know where that was coming from and I'm not all that sure that I even wrote the sentence that she was referring to. I probably did, but as I noted on her talk page, all my edits of that nature are or can be cited. Unless of course I misinterpret or misquote or whatever - which can happen to all of us - and it doesn't mean that the source is necessarily true either - but that's how references usually go. I apparently just didn't cite that one in question. It's not a big deal, although it would appear she sent a cc to her lawyers. :P Whattya gonna do. K1Bond007 03:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Reporting blocks
If you want to post a report at Account suspensions, I guess the best way would be to add (in this case  to the bottom of the section for permanent blocks, and then use the resulting redlink to post your report. You may want to use the template  to show the user's actions. (Note: the page doesn't seem to be used very much nowadays; perhaps it might be a better idea to post it at WP:AN/I? I don't know.) - Mike Rosoft 22:15, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Syberia
My sources about Syberia I and II being released on PS2 are on the websites GameFaqs, IGN and GameSpot. And if that's not proof enough, I don't know what is.

N. Harmonik 17:01, March 22, 2006 (UTC)

Misheard?
I'm not sure I entirely understand one the statements you made. This might be because I am scum, however, I would like if you would tell me.

"When did the use of "fall" become outdated? I've never heard of that and I have experience with both British and American English. It's still very much in use in Canada, which for the most part follows British English. 23skidoo 06:05, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)"

I know it is old, but it is simply curiousity. Were you advocating for or against fall? I have never used fall, I never knew of it's existence until I encountered American culture, other than the word to 'fall over'.

Doctor (Doctor Who) lead
Hi. The special episodes should cover it, thanks. &mdash;Whouk (talk) 15:59, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

More "hen fap" nonsense
I saw that you have blocked TuomasTumour before for vandalizing pages with "hen fap"; I just cleaned up more of his spam on Force powers and Matthew Perpetua (he also spammed University of Glasgow and James Blunt . Would it be at all possible for you to block him again (for even longer)? EVula 21:56, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
 * More of the same. Sorry to keep bugging you about this, but you're the only admin I've talked to (and you've dealt with this idiot before). EVula 07:30, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Another IP. This time I was honored by having my user page vandalized. I'm so touched. :) EVula 23:08, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * More of the same. EVula 22:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)


 * SchmuckyTheCat 22:03, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

It takes a thief
I have reverted your revert. There are litteraly tens of references to the remake since it was announced this week in Variety. Please look in google news rather than in google. Sorry for not sourcing, I thought it was common knowledge. Hektor 07:02, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Novelization -> novelisation
Have you noticed I've been trailing you substituting one for the other? :) Please use the British spelling as I'm going out soon and won't be able to keep up... --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 08:15, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I think I've managed to keep just one step behind you so far. Anyway, I'll keep an eye out for them too. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 08:23, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar



 * You're quite welcome. It was much deserved. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:46, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Fancruft
Being a regular with AFD, I thought I'd throw these pages I found concerning Bond at you and.....hell I'll just let you handle it :) If you think delete, then do so, I'll back it up. I think they're pretty useless. Battle of the volcano (I don't even know where to begin with that one.....), which is like.. Battle for the tanker (Mad Max) ??!, and this one which is Bond related and somewhat relevant, but I'm not so sure it needs an article: Blofeld Trilogy. This is a made up title by fans. It is somewhat popular, but it's still made up by fans. Is it really that widely used to get an article? I can see this getting expanded and possibly becoming a good article, but... I just don't know. Maybe redirect to Ernst Stavro Blofeld? K1Bond007 07:57, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I saw. It's not something I'm going to debate. There are some notable battles in fiction (Battle of Hoth), but these two aren't that notable. If these make it in, then there is no line where to stop with articles like these. Why stop at the volcano? The Liparus battle, the underwater Thunderball battle, Fort Knox.. theres no end and that's just a couple examples from Bond. K1Bond007 22:53, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Your settings probably got changed. Check your preferences under "editing." You can have Wikipedia automatically add any page you edit to your watchlist. For some reason that feature apparently turned on for you. K1Bond007 01:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd just stop replying about it. It's not worth it. They're going to be deleted. It's no big deal now. K1Bond007 01:58, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Help please
Can you do something about 172.168.89.206. His actions on Goce Delchev (broke the 3RR), Dame Gruev and Category:Macedonian revolutionaries speak for themselves. Also note that a bunch of the same edits were made recently by similar IPs from a dynamic IP pool sugesting very strongly that it's the same person. Finaly can you revert him on Goce Delchev coz I did 3 times already. Regards --Realek 01:47, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Enterprise Page
I was thinking of adding Data to the list of COs of Enterprise D. He took command of the ship in the episodes Gambit part I & II. Neither Riker nor Picard were on the ship at the time. What do you think? Was he technically a CO? --Geedubber 07:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * During Gambit, Picard was listed as dead, and Riker was MIA. So it wasn't like they were on an away mission, or trapped below decks. But I understand what your saying, where does one draw the line? The Memory Alpha Wiki lists Data as a CO, and I believe they are a canon only wiki. However, their articles may be inaccurate as well. --Geedubber 16:54, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Where in London
Hi 23 Skidoo. I have debated for years whether the view of the buildings are a picture or a drawing. But, either way I hoped that they might be of a specific location. The clarity of the dvd made me lean to the former but I could be wrong. I posted my question in the faint hope that maybe someone who worked on it might stumble on my question and have an answer (very faint hope I know). I know that you are one of the main watchdog of the Dr who wiki pages and I appreciate all the work that all of you do. I live in the U.S. and have been a fan since 1982 and was lucky enough to attend the Chicago 20th anniversary convention in Chicago. The fact that I am now getting to experience a ninth Dr (and a tenth next year I hope!) is just mindboggling. Keep up the good work here at wikipedia. User:MarnetteD | Talk 22:37, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Whoops I forgot to mention that I am a Laurie Anderson fan too. I hope that you have had the priviledge of seeing her perform live because it is a real treat.User:MarnetteD | Talk 22:41, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Image:IanFleming.jpg
Hi, you uploaded Image:IanFleming.jpg, and at the moment it's got a tag on saying "Copyright undetermined. To the uploader: If possible, please do not use this tag. Instead, use either one of the more specific tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use or article name, and include as much information about the image source as possible." Would you be able to sort it out? I suspect that you actually do have the copyright information you need, given the comments on the uploading. Many thanks, TheGrappler 14:37, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Cheers! Someone is going to have a horrible job going through all those deprecated tags! :-/ TheGrappler 14:50, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I Spy
Howdy, the reason I inserted the {FilmsWikiProject} template in the I Spy article is that the 2002 movie is mentioned briefly in this article. Schmiteye 06:38, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah! I didn't realize that clunker had its own article. Thanks!Schmiteye 15:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome (re:hen fap)
Can you get this one too? SchmuckyTheCat 23:36, 15 April 2006 (UTC)!

"world of biography"
This link spammer, from an anon IP address, was discussed a week or two ago at ... hmm, I think the Pump ... with agreement that sticking scores of virtually identical links into wikipedia in a spam run, as was done this morning, is beyond the pale. Two talk pages in the climb-up-the-alphabet list were created this morning solely to dump the link into them, which is why I deleted them; the rest I just rolled back; although somebody had already rolled back about half of them. These are not reasonable requests to consider an addition, they are large-scale link dumping with no conversation: Wham bam thank you traffic-building-mam. - DavidWBrooks 18:29, 17 April 2006 (UTC) ... Check his contributions this morning:


 * You're right: I should have put in edit summaries for the page deletions. (I wish the "rollback" button had edit summaries, too) - DavidWBrooks 22:44, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Talk Ex-Yugoslavia
Talk:Kosovo- The voice of Kosovar

Welcome to VandalProof!
Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, 23skidoo! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply download and install VandalProof from our main page. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other moderator, or you can post a message on the discussion page. Prodego talk  04:39, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

The Crusade
Hi. Just to let you know that I reverted your novelisation note on The Crusade (Doctor Who) as it didn't make sense to me (not knowing the history of the novelisations). I wasn't sure why it being the last novelised before 1973 was notable, and there's already a note that it was the last by the publisher in question. Hope this is OK. &mdash;Wh o  uk (talk) 15:30, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Teaser
I noticed. I'll keep my eye on it when I can spare it. I sent you an email (from Wikipedia). Hopefully you got that. K1Bond007 17:11, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Before I reply: teaser in English from Sony. The website launches in 16 or so days. Hopefully they'll have some new stuff like wallpaper or something. I don't know. -- Anyway, I've nailed a few people for 48hrs before when I could have, maybe even should have, gone for 24hrs. It depends on how obnoxious they were and obviously if they're seemingly the only person using the IP. I would say he got what he deserved. The scripts are copyrighted and thus a violation of one or a couple policies. :) K1Bond007 06:07, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Bond char template
I'm thinking about removing the age from the Bond character template. As I told another editor: "Most villains don't have any specific data. I'm just calling attention to this because it seems like these ages get changed almost every other week and now someone just went through and gave them all specific ages that can't be calculated." For instance, Dr. No was changed to "44 (film) 62 (novel)". ?? Theres no way to calculate that. The age in the film is based on (most likely) the actor playing him which we all know doesn't mean anything. What do you think? Should I remove? Also is there anything that should be added to the template? I mean thus far all we have is "Gender", "Affiliation", "Current status" and "Portrayed by". Maybe "First appearance"? I don't know, but I think it's clear age needs to go. K1Bond007 04:55, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Casino Royale Budget
The Budget that I have stated for "Casino Royale" is true as far as "IMDB" is concerned. That is the source of information.Cheers..... (Waleed Baig 18:59, 5 May 2006 (UTC))

I got you.thanks

I got you.thanks (Waleed Baig 19:04, 5 May 2006 (UTC))

Image
Please, deletes this file: I move this file in Wikipedia Commons. Sory, my English is not gut :) Mich@ł 07:36, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Image:Balduccilevitation.nwr.jpg
 * Image:Soopermanlevitation.nwr.jpg

Magazine covers
That is pretty much my long term intention with User:Genidealingwithfairuse.Geni 04:07, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * No I think fair use images should be allowed. I just belive we should make sure all uses are legit. It is posible to have a situation where a magazine cover in an article about a model is legit fair use. It just doesn't happen very often. When it does I don't remove the image. Alternate accounts are allowed under wikipedia policy see WP:SOCK.Geni 04:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * If you want to see fair use expanded contact memebers of the US goverment. Disscussion about the content of wikipedia tags would normaly take place at WikiProject Fair use.Geni 18:43, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The US goverment has not made any specific ruleings as to where fair use does or does not apply. That is what makes the while suject so difficult.Geni 12:35, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

It's just rationale. If you have it, then it's legit. If you don't, then it's not. Magazine covers for strictly decorative purposes are not legit and I agree with this. Many images are being abused in this way (not strictly magazines). Discuss why the image is being used either by pointing out why in the article itself and/or if (IMHO) implied in the article then on the image page under rationale (which every fairuse image should have anyway). A lot of what is going on is copyright paranoia, but Wikipedia should be willing to follow the laws and our own policies for that matter to the best of its ability. Just my 2cents. K1Bond007 20:18, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No. It has proper rationale and the fact that it is a cover of Life illustrates the point of the movie's popularity at the time of release (which is what the paragraph is about). I'm not going to remove it just because "someone doesn't like magazine covers". I agree we should limit the amount of fairuse images used, but just removing it on the grounds that it is fairuse is not grounds enough. I'll revert any attempt to remove it without much better reasoning. K1Bond007 17:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * We'll see how this goes. It is now directly mentioned in the article. K1Bond007 02:59, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

YOLT
No one mentioned it to my knowledge. YOLT is only 22K too so it's not like the page is too long or something. That was a ridiculous move. K1Bond007 21:16, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Thunderbirds - Meaning of FAB
23skidoo

I've read with interest the debate on the meaning of FAB in Thunderbirds. In 1991, (conincident with the rerun on BBC2), Gerry Anderson did a lecture tour of the UK. I attended the Plymouth event and I am sure that during it he said that FAB stood for nothing. Unfortunately I have only my memory of the event to go on and cannot prove it.

In a similar vein (and this IS proveable, though not by me), Anderson had a page in Look-In magazine for several years. One week he was asked what the abbreviations on Cdr Koenig's (Space 1999) sleeve meant. Again the answer was 'nothing' but THIS time it's in print! All we need to do is find someone with a collection of Look-In from 1976-(about)1982. I'm afraid mine bit the dust a long time ago.

David

Ps. I was always sure it was set in 2064 too....

P10
Hi, 23skidoo. I'm writing you because you commented the first time the List of Perfect 10 models was hastily put up for deletion due to a misinterpretation of the title as POV. The reason for re-nominating it is even worse. If interested, here is the current AfD Articles for deletion/List of Perfect 10 models (second nomination) --Alsayid 17:42, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Westham Island Bridge
I left a note on the user's talk page about the copyvio. --Usgnus 03:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

VandalProof 1.2 Now Available
 After a lenghty, but much-needed Wikibreak, I'm happy to announce that version 1.2 of VandalProof is now available for download! Beyond fixing some of the most obnoxious bugs, like the persistent crash on start-up that many have experienced, version 1.2 also offers a wide variety of new features, including a stub-sorter, a global user whitelist and blacklist, navigational controls, and greater customization. You can find a full list of the new features here. While I believe this release to be a significant improvement over the last, it's nonetheless nowhere near the end of the line for VandalProof. Thanks to Rob Church, I now have an account on test.wikipedia.org with SysOp rights and have already been hard at work incorporating administrative tools into VandalProof, which I plan to make available in the near future. An example of one such SysOp tool that I'm working on incorporating is my simple history merge tool, which simplifies the process of performing history merges from one article into another. Anyway, if you haven't already, I'd encourage you to download and install version 1.2 and take it out for a test-drive. As always, your suggestions for improvement are always appreciated, and I hope that you will find this new version useful. Happy editing! --AmiDaniel (talk) 02:02, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Ben King: Images
Hello. Just a note to say thanks for your support. Hope you're well. Ben King 15:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

New continuation infobox?
Some of the info in the continuation novels just seems.. bare bones. Do you think THIS is any better? It now actually lists the first hard/paper-back publication info as well as a list of all the novels by the author. I only intend to really do this for Gardner and Benson to make their stuff a little easier to navigate. I haven't really figured out how I'd do novelizations. Perhaps the same ol same ol. Should I change it up some how? Streamline it? It is kind of long although the information on these articles should be long enough to where this isn't a problem (the code should be the same size). I can shrink it by making the text smaller, I suppose. Tell me what you think. What information might be good. This is a rough draw up and is kind of based on The Simpsons episode infobox (example). K1Bond007 02:34, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The authors list at the bottom is supposed to be kind of a guide for who the next author is. How should I do that? I mean, say they get to Cold and they want to know the next book. How do we do that? Any ideas? As my todo list suggests, I do believe I am going to break the continuation novels to their own page from James Bond. I'm also considering removing the list of books from IFP's article and making a "list of James Bond books/novels" (somehow I'd have to fit Benson's short stories, but I don't want non-fiction like Benson's companion because there are so many of those). Just a thought. Also, are there any other fields I should add? K1Bond007 18:31, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * When they declared that fair-use images could only be used in the article namespace (and thus not at portal, user etc) I revamped the portal to list all the "adventures" (novel and film only) of James Bond. I think it's fairly done and organized. For the novels I organized them as: Fleming, Sanctioned novels (1967–1979), Gardner, Benson, Higson, Sanctioned novels (2005–present). We can do that. Maybe where the "preceding" and "following" parts went we can just put series there and direct them to the first book in that 'era'. See the portal list here: James Bond adventures. This would include all the books except for the non-fiction stuff (which we don't want anyway) and it would exclude Per Fine Ounce and obviously The Killing Zone. To be clear: As an example all Higson-book articles would possibly have a preceded by Benson and a followed by Sanctioned novels (2005-present). K1Bond007 21:12, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Nah. I don't think this is a problem. Theres only one company that makes James Bond books. If you write a Bond book then it's clearly a copyright/trademark infringement and thus not sanctioned. The IFP name change only adds to the confusion. K1Bond007 21:20, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually I kind of have a problem linking to the first book in each 'era'. That would mean the first book in the 1967-1979 would be 003-1/2 and that ... sucks. Maybe reorganize IFP's article and just link to that list or something? Maybe a list of James Bond books should be done or as I've wanted to do just break off the continuation novels from the main article and put them on their own page. I don't want to overlap and be too redundant here. K1Bond007 21:29, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
 * This any better? It's actually functional. K1Bond007 03:57, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't plan to do this for the Fleming's. Pages are crowded with the other infobox which is why we have the horizontal one for those. Unless you think we should. I could always put the infobox on the left (where the 2nd book pic is) for those or at the top of the page on the right (with the first book). The only ones that I may ever add this one to are O&TLD and Casino Royale because they're smaller. I've considered doing CR in the past, but just haven't gotten around to it. What should we do here? K1Bond007 04:05, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Well it's up and running. Not sure if I dig all the "preceding" and "following" stuff. All the articles should look the same, since none of them really call for the "era" field. The Young Bond novels (ex. SilverFin) have been updated just because they're easy. If you want to see what they all look like change the era field (preview) to either: Fleming, Gardner, Benson, or Sanctioned. I don't know if this is how that will be in the end. Maybe I'll just remove that stuff at the bottom and just keep the "preceded" and "followed" fields for certain books (i.e. Cold <--> Zero Minus Ten). ?? As always tell me what you think and how we can improve them. If you want to play around with it, be my guest. K1Bond007 05:50, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Image:TVTimesAvengers1961.jpg
The copyright on The Avengers was originally held by the Associated British Picture Company, then by Polygram, and is now held (IIRC) by Canal+.

The copyright on the TVTimes magazine was originally held by Television Publications Ltd 1955-1968, then Independent Television Publications Ltd 1968-1988 and now is now held by IPC Media plc.

Whilst there were overlaps in shareholding over the years between the various ITV companies and the TVTimes magazine, at no point has ABPC owned the TVTimes or vice versa (although Thames, which ABPC had 51% of, owned 1/13th of ITP).

Horrendously complicated! I'd be prepared to argue that the picture used by the TVTimes would, on its own, be fair use, but the actual cover of the TVTimes is copyright to a completely different organisation to ITV itself and fair use doesn't run that far. IMHO - your mileage may vary! ➨ ≡ Я Ξ  DVΞRS ≡ 11:45, 26 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The only way around it I could think of would be to put a detailed section into the article about The Avengers appearing in TVTimes and that issue in particular. As long as the text would make mention of the issue in question, its use would therefore be fair use.


 * However, that doesn't get around the issue that the now fortunately permabanned Ben King (for making threats, vandalism and disgusting personal attacks against people who only asked him a simple question in nice terms, citing you as someone who supported him in doing so, BTW) took all the images from here - like the one in question - without permission, I'd suspect, which is probably why he refused to provide a source and went postal on the first person who asked him nicely if he wouldn't mind providing one per Wikipedia rules. ➨ ≡ Я Ξ  DVΞRS ≡ 19:59, 26 May 2006 (UTC)