User:A Fellow Editor/sandbox/FXGermans

RfC Body (draft 1)

 * Is text regarding an unrealized plan by Germans to relocate people topical to the lede of an article which covers relocation of Germans by others?


 * More specifically, is it 'on topic' and appropriate for the lede of Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–50)—an article which covers the relocation of ethnic Germans in the years immediately following WWII—to contain text explicitly noting Generalplan Ost—a plan formed by Nazis in the years 1939–1942 to relocate various non-German ethnicities if Germany won the war?


 * Does the reference XXXXX support or even directly relate to "XXXXX"?


 * If it does not, might "XXXXX" be preferable to the then unsourced "xxxxx" so as to act as a lead in sentence for "XXXXX" rather than remain as a free-standing assertion?

RfC Body (draft 2)

 * Is text regarding an unrealized plan by Germans to relocate people topical to the lede of an article which covers relocation of Germans by others?


 * More specifically, is it 'on topic' and appropriate for the lede of Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–50)—an article which covers the relocation of ethnic Germans in the years immediately following WWII—to contain text explicitly noting Generalplan Ost—a plan formed by Nazis in the years 1939–1942 to relocate various non-German ethnicities if Germany won the war?


 * Does the reference Nationhood in German legislation XXXXX support or even directly relate to "XXXXX"?


 * Presuming it does not, might "XXXXX" be preferable to the then unsourced "xxxxx" so as to act as a lead in sentence for "XXXXX" rather than remain as a free-standing assertion?

RfC Body (draft 3)

 * Is it 'on topic' and appropriate for the lede of Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–50)—an article which covers the relocation of ethnic Germans in the years immediately following WWII—to contain text explicitly noting Generalplan Ost—a plan formed in the years 1939–1942 by Nazis to relocate various non-German ethnicities in the event Germany won the war?
 * i.e. Is text regarding an unrealized plan by Germans to relocate people topical to the lede of an article which aims to cover relocation of Germans by others?


 * Does the linked book excerpt 'Nationhood in German legislation' support "The post-war expulsions of the Germans were part of the geopolitical and ethnic reconfiguration of postwar Europe that attempted to create ethnically homogeneous nations." beside which it was placed as a reference? Does reading the book excerpt in context of its surrounding paragraphs indicate that it's intended to be taken to regard broader "geopolitical and ethnic reconfiguration of postwar Europe" or does it instead cover specifically German expulsions after WWII?


 * Presuming the cited passage is found not to be directly supportive, might
 * "'The post-war expulsions of the Germans took place amongst other geopolitical and ethnic reconfigurations of postwar Europe. '"
 * be preferable to the then unsourced assertion
 * "'The post-war expulsions of the Germans were part of the geopolitical and ethnic reconfiguration of postwar Europe that attempted to create ethnically homogeneous nations.'"
 * so as to act as a lead in sentence for "Between 1944 and 1948 about 31 million people, including ethnic Germans, were permanently or temporarily moved from Central and Eastern Europe." which follows?

RfC Body (draft 4)

 * Is it 'on topic' and appropriate for the lede of Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–50)—an article which covers the relocation of ethnic Germans in the years immediately following WWII—to contain text explicitly noting Generalplan Ost—a plan formed in the years 1939–1942 by Nazis to relocate various non-German ethnicities in the event Germany won the war?
 * i.e. Is text regarding an unrealized plan by Germans to relocate people topical to the lede of an article which aims to cover relocation of Germans by others?


 * Does the linked book excerpt 'Nationhood in German legislation' support "The post-war expulsions of the Germans were part of the geopolitical and ethnic reconfiguration of postwar Europe that attempted to create ethnically homogeneous nations." beside which it was placed as a reference? Does reading the book excerpt in context of its surrounding paragraphs indicate that it's intended to be taken to regard broader "geopolitical and ethnic reconfiguration of postwar Europe" or does it instead cover specifically German expulsions after WWII?


 * If the cited passage is found not to be directly supportive, it would leave
 * "'The post-war expulsions of the Germans were part of the geopolitical and ethnic reconfiguration of postwar Europe that attempted to create ethnically homogeneous nations.'"
 * as an unsourced assertion. Might it be preferable to replace it with
 * "'The post-war expulsions of the Germans took place amongst other geopolitical and ethnic reconfigurations in postwar Europe.'"
 * as a more neutral lead in sentence for "Between 1944 and 1948 about 31 million people, including ethnic Germans, were permanently or temporarily moved from Central and Eastern Europe." which follows?

Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–50): RfC on lede passage
Regarding second half of the second paragraph of lede as of RfC posting; (was third paragraph prior to recent edits; see history):


 * A): Is it 'on topic' and appropriate for the lede of Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–50)—an article which covers the relocation of ethnic Germans in the years immediately following WWII—to contain text explicitly noting Generalplan Ost—a plan formed in the years 1939–1942 by Nazis to relocate various non-German ethnicities in the event Germany won the war?
 * i.e. Is text regarding an unrealized plan by Germans to relocate people topical to the lede of an article which aims to cover relocation of Germans by others?


 * B): Does the linked book excerpt 'Nationhood in German legislation' support
 * "The post-war expulsions of the Germans were part of the geopolitical and ethnic reconfiguration of postwar Europe that attempted to create ethnically homogeneous nations."
 * beside which it was placed as a reference? Does reading the book excerpt in context of its surrounding paragraphs indicate that it's intended to be taken to regard broader "geopolitical and ethnic reconfiguration of postwar Europe" or does it instead cover specifically German expulsions after WWII?
 * B.1): If the cited passage is found not to be directly supportive, it would leave
 * "The post-war expulsions of the Germans were part of the geopolitical and ethnic reconfiguration of postwar Europe that attempted to create ethnically homogeneous nations."
 * as an unsourced assertion. Might it be preferable to replace it with
 * "The post-war expulsions of the Germans took place amongst other geopolitical and ethnic reconfigurations in postwar Europe."
 * as a more neutral lead in sentence for "Between 1944 and 1948 about 31 million people, including ethnic Germans, were permanently or temporarily moved from Central and Eastern Europe." which follows?

--Kevjonesin (talk) 15:57, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Note: At present this RfC seeks comment and discussion, not'' support/oppose !votes. A '!vote' 'survey' may be held later in a following related RfC if such seems needed for further clarification.''

Individual responses
Please prefix your response with: Comment: and then follow with replies to any or all of the inquiries above.


 * Comment: As to A), I don't think the Generalplan Ost stuff as presented should be in the lede. Perhaps in the body of the article in another section if sources establishing a causative effect or drawing a direct comparison or some such are included along with text making a connection but not just dropped into the lede without establishing a relevant tie in. As presented it comes off to me as gratuitous and off-topic. Information covered elsewhere which is inverse to the subject of the article (and which was arose outside the time period the article seeks to cover) doesn't seem to me to warrant inclusion in the lede. Related: A link in the latter part of the 'See also' section to offer contrast for readers seems sensible; but not as the first item (as has been done) as it contrasts rather than expands on the subject of the article.
 * As to B), my reading of the book excerpt in context leads me to interpret it as specifically about German relocation and not overall multi-ethnic shifts. The paragraph preceding the linked excerpt begins "Below we briefly illustrate how the public representation of the expulsion of ethnic Germans and their ensuing hardship were inscribed into the public memory during the first post-war decade in order to recreate a legitimate sense of collectivity.". It seems through surrounding context that references to expulsions in the passage (and those immediately preceding and following) refer quite specifically to expulsions of Germans and not post WWII expulsions in general making the citation of it ill suited to follow a wiki line commenting on expulsions of non-Germans. It simply doesn't speak of "geopolitical and ethnic reconfiguration [...] to create ethnically homogeneous nations". Which leads to B.1) ... As the citation needs removed due to misuse/misplacement it leaves us with a dangling unsourced assertion. Rather than removing it completely I suggest toning it down to a neutral preamble to the sourced statistic which follows it.
 * --Kevjonesin (talk) 18:26, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Threaded discussion
Please start threads with Comment, Question, Suggestion, Etc.: as you see fit below.


 * Comment Personally, I prefer having a short freestanding third paragraph as so
 * "The post-war expulsions of the Germans took place amongst other geopolitical and ethnic reconfigurations of postwar Europe. Between 1944 and 1948 about 31 million people, including ethnic Germans, were permanently or temporarily moved from Central and Eastern Europe."
 * to the present kludged amalgamation which displays as
 * "[...] During the Cold War, the West German government also counted as expellees 1 million foreign colonists settled in territories conquered by Nazi Germany. After the war, under the 'Big Plan',Generalplan Ost [sic] foresaw the removal of 31 million 'racially undesirable' people from Central and Eastern Europe, 100% of Jews, Poles (85%), Belorussians (75%) and Ukrainians (65%), to West Siberia,, [sic]  The post-war expulsions of the Germans were part of the geopolitical and ethnic reconfiguration of postwar Europe that attempted to create ethnically homogeneous nations. Between 1944 and 1948 about 31 million people, including ethnic Germans, were permanently or temporarily moved from Central and Eastern Europe."
 * (less bracketd comments).
 * --Kevjonesin (talk) 17:10, 29 December 2015 (UTC)