User:Anthere/Guanaco and Lir

Anthere do you have the link ? Lir here it is from another page's history Lir http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_review_of_administrative_actions&diff=4332256&oldid=4331908 TreyHarris DavidGerard: right... often does mean not always, doesn't it? or is that a cultural difference, does often mean always in... oh. New York. nevermind ;-) TreyHarris lol Lir *Guanaco banned me, accusing me of sockpuppetry. He provided no evidence of this, he unilaterally banned me without quickpoll, discussing the issue with me, or following any of the various dispute processes. An examination of this page's history, shows that Guanaco has repeatedly violated the procedures for banning. Lirath Q. Pynnor TheCustomOfLife I had a blonde moment. TheCustomOfLife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Kerr_Scott sannse thanks Lir - looking TheCustomOfLife I saw that and I thought, ooh, is that the gay guy from Dawson's Creek? Lir also notable, is the fact that he banned me over an edit dispute; which must be worse than protecting a page Anthere Lir Anthere do fill a new request on the relevant page please Anthere with relevant links Lir its already been deleted Anthere hte article ? Lir if i add it again, ill probably get banned for that Anthere what was the article ? Lir http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment&action=edit&section=4 BillyH Out of interest, Anthere, why do you keep putting a space before the question mark ? ;P BillyH *;) <--| Svante has left #wikipedia Anthere because I am french sannse http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_review_of_administrative_actions&diff=0&oldid=4332256 Lir http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Guanaco&action=edit <---deleted =-= Guanaway is now known as Guanaco BillyH Ah, right sannse It was deleted from there to move to Request for review of admin actions Jamesday Trey, I'm not sure what to make of it - the lack of an edit comment is a problem. Anthere all this is very unclear to me sannse wyere it lasted an hour before being reverted Jamesday I see some other recipe changes in contributions but can't tell if they are changing to personal preferences or correcting or whatever because I'm not much interested in recipes and don't know what to expect in them.:) DavidGerard goes to bed DavidGerard have fun all sannse night DavidGerard DavidGerard and boy are you going to have fun Grunt` grunts sannse you still unclear Anthere? Jamesday Good night DavidGerard:) Anthere yes sannse Anthere I hardly know how these pages are working Anthere so really do not see the problem sannse the origonal was at Requests for comment/Guanaco Lir well i donno where it is now Lir but it sure isnt resolving the issue sannse that was deleted - because it was in the wrong place Anthere and ? sannse the text was moved to Requests for review of administrative actions Anthere okay, then ? sannse where it lasted about an hour before being blanked Guanaco no, Requests for comment/Guanaco was deleted because it expired blankfaze blankfazes Comrade_Nick bye people Guanaco it lasted for 48 hours without certification Anthere you delete request for comment ? Guanaco no Guanaco someone else did sannse cur) (last) 16:40, 28 Jun 2004 Lir Lir it may have "expired' but its still a legitimate complaint Anthere I mean why are request for comments deleted ? sannse cur) (last) 17:01, 28 Jun 2004 UninvitedCompany m (Reverted edits by Lir to last version by Mirv) Anthere and why did uc revert ? Lir so that sysops dont get criticized Anthere give good answer please Lir Anthere what is expired ? Anthere if no one comment in 48 hours, then it is expired ? Lir i guess my complaint is expired Guanaco ant: yes Guanaco 2 people have to certify the dispute Anthere Guanaco, what do you think of Lir complaint ? sannse ah I see - the move was the other way round from "revew" to "request" ugg sorry Anthere I would be happy to know what happened entmoot_ Anthere: the certification req was apparently added because of sysops complaining about too many requests for review. see: Wikipedia talk:Requests for review of administrative action Lir he banned me over an edit dispute Guanaco i understand it, but i feel that what i did was correct based on what i thought to be true at the time Lir it wasnt a valid reason, u can't ban people like that Lir its an abuse of power Anthere wait Lir entmoot_ Wikipedia talk:Requests for review of administrative actions Guanaco i thought User:YES, et al, were lir and not michael Anthere Guanaco, do you agree that you banned Lir, because of some sock puppet issue ? Guanaco yes Anthere where these sock puppet banned ? Anthere were Lir if I thought Jimbo Wales was Adolf Hitler, I wouldnt be justified in banning him Guanaco yes Lir Guanaco banned them as well Anthere where they banned before ? sannse what were the socks banned for Guanaco later i found out from tim starling that the socks were michael BillyH Who, Adolf Hitler and Jimbo Wales? Anthere why were they banned ? Lir he banned a whole bunch of people without evidence Anthere give me one of these sock name please ? Guanaco User:YES, User:Yuna, User:Yuna's Revenge Anthere okay Lir lol Yuna's Revenge Anthere so, what happened ? Anthere Yes was banned Anthere by someone Anthere right ? Guanaco by me Lir by Guanaco Anthere why ? Guanaco i thought it was a illegitimate sockpuppet of lir Anthere was Lir banned then ? =-= gwicke is now known as gwicke|away Guanaco not by that autoblock Guanaco it was actually michael editing from AOL Anthere so, you thought that Lir was editing under two names, right ? Anthere (more actually, but I simplify) Guanaco yes sannse so lir and the socks were banned only because they were (or were thought to be) socks? Anthere were they vandalising wikipedia ? Guanaco yes Lir im actually a sock of Ed Poor Anthere were they vandalising wikipedia ? sannse we've known that one for year Lir Guanaco borderline vandalism - constant reverts against community consensus Lir heh Lir community consensus is such a deceptive term Anthere how did you define community consensus ? blankfaze Lir, not really. blankfaze it's pretty straightforward. Lir nah Lir not when you can't really measure consensus, and dissenters are banned -->| Baudelaire (~Administr@Baudelaire.wikipedia) has joined #wikipedia blankfaze Sure you can measure consensus. Lir in theory Guanaco everyone agrees that that ugly NPOV notice should not be there SethIlys consensus is 100% agreement. Lir even I agree blankfaze People vote. Whatever the majority votes for is a consensus. Lir Im not interested in an ugly NPOV notice Anthere what make you think they were Lir ? Lir im interested in a notation, within the opening, that it be indicated that there is academic dispute over Hussein's name Jamesday blankfaze, tha'ts a good definition of what consensus isn't:) Lir I don't understand the question Anthere. blankfaze Oh, I just looked it it, I see i'm wrong. Anthere Guanaco: what made you think YES was Lir ? blankfaze Well, I feel uneducated! Lir its ok blankfaze Guanaco the fact that lir had used ESH before blankfaze Well sort of. Lir ESH? -->| Kurt__ (kmw@evvlinlwt-nas-07-s601.cinergycom.net) has joined #wikipedia Guanaco and YES's actions blankfaze It depends on what definition you go with. Anthere ESH ? blankfaze Dictionary.com gives 3. Guanaco editing saddam hussein blankfaze one of which is "agreement of the majority in sentiment or belief" Anthere okay, so just the fact Lir had used a sock puppet another day ? Jamesday blankfaze, trying to find a solution which all or very close to all can agree to accept would qualify as consensus. A vote short-circuits that process and can be used as a measure to ignore the views of the minority instead of trying to account for them and satisfy them as well as the majority. Anthere another argument ? Lir EDH never acted as a sockpuppet, if you define a sockpuppet as agreeing with or voting with the owner blankfaze Jamesday: true, true. Lir and ESH wasn't me regardless Guanaco there is strong evidence to the contrary Lir not really Lir there is strong evidence that ESH was on the same IP sannse I don't define a sock puppet that way Lir - a second undisclosed account for any reason is a sock Anthere Guanaco, your only argument for saying Lir was YES is that Lir had aloready used a sock puppet herself ? Lir but even if ESH was me, which ESH wasn't -- ESH's didnt commit any crimes Lir sure sannse, but having a second account isn't criminal either -- a LOT of users have them Anthere had socks Lir Wik was Anthere's sock sannse no, I dislike them, but agree they are perfectly legal Guanaco and 'editing saddam hussein' was used for editing saddam hussein Jamesday Sannse, depends in part on the use of the account but in general I agree - and I think I have all of my own accounts listed on my primary user page. Anthere YES was editing Saddam Hussein I understand Lir I showed up at the Saddam Hussein article because I felt ESH had made some legitimate edits there Anthere where the edits the same ? Anthere were SethIlys We don't know of any situation where a user gained admin status through two different accounts, do we? Guanaco yes Anthere hates hhhhh Lir i have three sysop accounts sannse that I don't mind - it's the deception I feel from socks that I dislike (but again, they are not forbiden) Anthere did you ask other people opinion on that suspicion ? Jamesday Yes, the deceptive uses are problematic, particularly in arguments. Anthere did you ask a developer to do an ip check ? === Guanaco <~Guanaco@ip68-102-29-237.ks.ok.cox.net> “...” === Guanaco: member of #mediawiki and #wikipedia === Guanaco: attached to irc.freenode.net “http://freenode.net/” === Guanaco is an identified user === Guanaco: idle for 1 seconds (on since Wed, Jun 30, 2004 4:54:43 AM) --- End of WHOIS information for Guanaco Lir the arguments themselves are a problem, 90% of users are incoherent Lir like that guy that was going on about plasma tornadoes Anthere Guanacono Anthere :-) Jamesday Lir, tolerance is the best solution I have for that - those who are more capable than average have little practical choice but to deal with such things. sannse Anthere I realise you are trying to get all in information, but if the ban was on socks alone (with no vandalism from the main account or the socks) then were is the authority to ban? Lir Im extremely tolerant, the problem is people aren't tolerant of me. blankfaze likes plasma tornadoes! Anthere Guanaco: how long was Lir banned ? Lir not long Anthere how much is not long ? who unbanned you ? Lir Guanaco did I believe Lysine is "kmq" a unit of measurement or a typo for km sq? Lir after someone told him to Anthere good Anthere did you Guanaco ? Lir kilomegaquarsecs Anthere what is illegitimate sockpuppetry Guanaco ? Anthere I think Sannse said sock puppetry was legitimate ??? Lir what im looking for is not so much punishment of Guanaco, but a renewed emphasis on "rule of law" and such things as rights and what have you Jamesday Lysine, it appears to be a real measure for areas in relation to population studies, perhaps in other fields. Anthere I know Lir Lir not to mention more of an effort at resolving edit disputes in a less totalitarian fashion Anthere Guanaco though he was doing right Jamesday So asking the person who wrote it to explain it or link it seems like the best course. -->| x|helvete (palle@4.254.216.81.o-vik.siwnet.net) has joined #wikipedia Lysine Jamesday: hmm... ok Anthere Guanaco: did you unblock Lir yourself ? and what is illegitimate sockpuppetry ? Anthere who says that exist ? Lir really, all I want is for the Hussein article to note that there is dispute over his name sannse As far as I know there is no rule against multiple accounts - there may be in using them to vote twice or to add several coments to the same discussion (making it appear this is more support) Anthere that dispute has been going on for days :-( Lir but Anthere, it hasn't been going on Lir there are arguing over what his name should be Lir rather than whether the dispute should be mentioned Lir thats all I want Lir if the article uses "Saddam", I'm not going to worry too much about it Lir as long as it prominently mentions the dispute Guanaco we could use a combination of "Saddam", "Hussein", and "Saddam Hussein" Lir i dont much care what we use Lir i just care that it be mentioned that there is dispute on the subject Lir and its not just dispute at the wikipedia Anthere Guanaco: about my questions ? Lir heck, the formal legal charges against Saddam use Majid as his last name; yet, the wiki article acts as if Majid isnt applicable at all Guanaco but that dispute used section headers in nowiki tags like ==this== and referred to a non-existent section Lir right GUanaco, but u could have edited it Lir instead of deleting it Lir i dont have a problem with edits Lir deletings irritate me though Lir and that section did exist, before it was deleted Guanaco wasn't it made into a footnote? Lir yes, and thats the problem Lir it should be slightly more than a footnote Lir there should be a brief mention of it in the opening Guanaco ant: yes, and illegitimate sockpuppetry would be using multiple sockpuppets to get around the three revert limit in edit wars and making sockpuppet votes Lir what votes were made? TheCustomOfLife http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Haut TheCustomOfLife She needs to be directed to ancestry.com Grunt` Custom: now might not be the time to interrupt. Guanaco that doesn't exactly apply here Anthere I understand well the danger of sock puppet in votes TheCustomOfLife But...woman....genealogy...stuff Anthere but right now, it is not illegal Anthere only a problem for votes Anthere I have two last questions Guanaco Anthere na, three :-) Anthere the first is simply "did you apology for your mistake to Lir" ? Anthere the second is "do you think you were being right when you did it, ie, following a rule" (and not realising you were not) ? Anthere the third is "do you think you will do it again, because you think it should be the correct way " ? Guanaco 1. no, i didn't, and i should have, but i was frustrated by the RfC Anthere nod -->| brion (~brion@adsl-64-164-82-192.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) has joined #wikipedia =-= Mode #wikipedia +o brion by ChanServ Lir -o brion Guanaco 2. at the time i thought i was, because it seemed to be a clear abuse of sockpuppets, but it was actually one of michael's mind games BillyH What is it with people deopping themself in here? Grunt` BillyH: shh. Anthere I do not want to force you to say "I wont do it again" Guanaco 3. i may do it again, depending on the circumstances, if IP and other evidence shows that the accounts are the same person Anthere I mostly want to do your opinion Jamesday BillyH, it's a convention of this IRC network. to redice trouble with those who dislike authority or ,ight seek ops just as a status symbol Anthere so, the issues are blankfaze wonders where i can pick up a list of the members of the evil cabal Anthere 1. define circumstances Anthere 2. what is evidence sannse Guanaco: I take it clearer guidelines would help in helping you to decide which situations applied?
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