User:Arne Neem

I'm mostly interested in the Twelve-step program.

I recently removed some quotations of the Twelve Steps from Wikipedia articles, because it is not clear, if they infringe Alcoholics Anonymous' copyright.

As far as I know, there's no official statement by Alcoholics Anonymous World Services (AAWS) regarding the use of the Twelve Steps in Wikipedia. It's unclear, if a quote of the full Twelve Steps is still covered by "fair use". It's also unclear, to what extent AA still owns the copyright on those texts.

But I'm working on it! :-)

I'm writing up an e-mail to AA. I want to ask AA for permission to quote the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions in their entirety. Or at least to issue some statement as to what extent Wikipedians can safely quote excerpts of the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions without infringeing AA's copyright.

Please do not reinsert the Twelve Steps in any article, unless you can prove that you have the right to do so. I recommend you wait until we have an answer from AA. Let's keep Wikipedia out of harm's way. I'm optimistic that AA will make us a sensible offer.

''By the way: I'm no lawyer, nor do I have any legal expertise. This is just a laymen's attempt to help Wikipedia sort out a potential copyright issue.''

de:Benutzer:Arne Neem


 * Arne, you would do well to understand copyright law prior to removing stuff like this from a Wiki article. The big book itself was once copyrighted but that expired years ago.  You, I or anyone else can publish the entire big book.  Even if it were still copyrighted it is not illegal to document what the steps are, its not like Wiki is selling the 12 steps to its readership here.  Those steps should be added back to that article.  Again, you acknowledge you are not a legal expert so it would be wise to not act like one, especially one who is unfamiliar with copyright laws.  Mr Christopher 21:38, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Point taken. What would you recommend to do next? --Arne Neem 21:44, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * On a second thought, I'll better stop right here and now. I drafted up an e-mail to AA, but didn't sent it. Please feel free to reinsert the Twelve Steps, if you think it's okay to do so. --Arne Neem 10:08, 7 June 2006 (UTC)