User:Bamse/Jesuit Missions of the Chiquitos work

''Die Beziehung der Jesuiten zu der einheimischen Bevölkerung ist ein weites Feld. Das Thema ist zwangsläufig (oft) ideologisch belastet. Einen interessanten Artikel zum Thema findest du in der Historischen Zeitschrift von 1976. Im Ausstellungskatalog: Eckart Kühne (Hg.): Martin Schmid 1694 bis 1772, Missionar - Musiker - Architekt, ein Jesuit aus der Schweiz bei den Chiquitano-Indianern in Bolivien, Luzern 1994 findest du einen Artikel (und weitere Literaturangaben) über die Missionierungsmethoden der Jesuiten. Eine gute Literaturliste findest du unter anderem auch auf de:Jesuitenreduktionen der Guaraní.''
 * copied from de:Benutzer Diskussion:Sanblatt

census

ganson

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=Old candidacy=

Images:
 * Comments by  Redtigerxyz
 * Images in  "World Heritage Missions" do not have any captions. The building(s)   displayed in the pic need to be named as a caption
 * Should I  really add "Church in ..." everywhere? bamse   (talk) 10:54, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The section  is meant to look like a table and looks better without image captions  in  my opinion. bamse (talk) 09:47, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

-- Redtigerxyz Talk   13:35, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

There  are also many, many uncited sentences in the history section (which I   focused on, probably in the rest of the article) and a few uncited   paragraphs. It is possible this is because the same reference is used  for multiple sentences. For the purpose of clarity, I recommend that be  used if this is the case. A sentence without a reference should be the  exception to the rule. This makes it easier for readers to trace the  source and also makes it easier for editors to identify uncited  material  (including material edited or added at a later date). There is an easy  technological fix for using the same reference in multiple  places. Savidan 04:15, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment a rather good article overall, but  it does dance around the colonialism a bit in the history and life   section. A few examples:
 * "In the  reductions, the Indians were free men." Only a few paragraphs earlier,   the article admits that the situation is more controversial and  debated.  I think it would be better to be concrete and specific about  the rights  that were and were not had, both in theory and practice,  rather than  dropping such broad statements.
 * "For the Jesuits the goal was to create cities in the  complete  harmony of the paradise in which they had encountered the  Indians." Do  you mean the stated goal? It seems a bit naive, given the  obvious  motivation for conversion and the proximate economic/trade  route  motivations mentioned elsewhere in the article.
 * "The Jesuits  did not rely on donations, because by right the priests received a  fixed  income from the community to support their work." My concern is  that  "by right" obscures the exact manner in which the priests obtained  and  collected funds for their own income, which I believe is not  mentioned  and certainly not made clear.
 * I don't know if there was a fixed manner  for fund collection. Probably it would  depend on the place and priest.  All this sentence is meant to say is,  that by (Spanish) law, the priests  were entitled to an income (tax?).  From what I understand this is  similar to the tithe  in medieval Europe but unlike  the practise of other orders which relied  on donations only. bamse (talk) 16:41, 19 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Just to  clarify, are you asking for every single sentence to be followed by a   reference? Nev1 (talk) 19:44, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That should  be the default, unless it is obvious why there should not be one (e.g.   the sentence is a simple summary of several cited facts that follow in   later sentences). However, I am suggesting that the mere use of the  same  source for a few consecutive sentences (which I suspect to be the  case  here) is not a good enough reason not to cite. That makes it hard  for  the reader to determine whether the source is the preceding or  following  reference, or whether the sentence is uncited. In addition,  things  become complicated as other add to the article in the future  (e.g. it  becomes impossible to distinguish a sentence of original  research added  at a later date from a sentence simply not in-line cited by   the original contributor). Savidan   00:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Comments  -
 * Current ref  34 has the publisher run into the title of the link. Also, what makes http://world-gazetteer.com/wg.php?x=&men=gcis&lng=en&des=wg&geo=-38&srt=npan&col=adhoq&msz=1500&pt=c&va=x&geo=-734   a reliable source?
 * Fixed the publisher. As for reliability,  there is a discussion here. I am not sure if there has been   an agreement though... bamse   (talk) 21:47, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll leave  this out for other reviewers to decide for themselves. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Current ref  37 (Busque...) what makes this a reliable source? Lacks a publisher also
 * I added the  publisher. Only the pictures from that site (basically Chiquitos  Indians  with musical instruments) and not the text were meant as  supporting  source. If it is questioned that the pictures are of  Chiquitos Indians  or if the source is otherwise considered unreliable,  it could well be  removed as the statement it references is supported by  other sources. bamse (talk) 21:30, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll leave  this out for other reviewers to decide for themselves. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:22, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Otherwise,  sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 16:54, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Oppose. Not well written. Examples of why  are below. The whole text is at issue.

Lead: PS  I can't make out a single thing except "Brasil" in that map. It's a  size and resolution problem. Tony  (talk)  12:04, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Missions ...  the site. Comes as a perplexing surprise that "they" is now rather   singular.
 * Link to "Christianity" is far too vague.  Can you find a section-link or a daughter article?
 * Enough commas  already, so "the area and founded".
 * Awkward  sentence themes: "The Jesuits", "They", "The   Jesuits". And I noticed "the" was dropped in the first para.
 * "used music in  converting"; not "to convert", but during the process of  converting,  yes?
 * What does "virtual" mean in this context?  "and were largely independent of"?
 * "triggered by events in Europe and  America"—does   "America" mean "the US" here?
 * Three countries linked: can they be to the  "Religion" section of those articles? Or the "History" daughter   articles? Please dig around to find focused link targets throughout the   article.
 * "In the second half of the 20th century, a  large restoration project of the missionary churches began." Awkward.   Reverse the clauses and bin the comma.
 * Year or  decade(s) of tourism establishment? And is the "growing popularity" a   reference to tourism? It's unclear.  Tony   (talk)  12:02, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Which map? bamse (talk) 07:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)