User:Beetstra/Ecco Pro case

Ecco Pro is a PIM, with a small but dedicated user group. Nice piece of software, but hardly any independent sourcing around it. But notable enough.

Editors on Ecco Pro (and MagicView as well, see the deletion debate below) fail to see that we have notability guidelines, a manual of style, and other policies and guidelines. Editors keep on failing to get the point, keep coming up with criteria which are not based on inclusion, but based on reasonings which are either false, or on situations which in themselves are failing our policies and guidelines.

Article

 * Ecco Pro
 * First encountered situation: revid
 * Article is riddled with external links in the text (which is not according to WP:MOS)
 * Only one reference
 * Many 'download here' type links ("is available free at the EccoPro Users' Group website.", "More information about the new add-ons and free extensions is available at:", "continues to offer the final version as a free download on the Ecco_Pro user group forum Files section.", "the program is available as a free download,", "An alternate install procedure from a .zip file is available(here) free that enables a successful install.", "A downloadable archive of the ECCO Pro forum is also available.", "have been solved with add-on tools (such as this)", all linked to download links), making the text spammy/advertising
 * Unsourced pricing information ("SRP $59; sold direct by NetManage $9.99", "SRP $69; sold direct by netManage for $19.95" etc.
 * Indirect information: "Perez has returned to law practice as a criminal defense attorney in Bellevue, Washington."
 * Indirect information: "Perez has returned to law practice as a criminal defense attorney in Bellevue, Washington."


 * MagicView
 * Articles for deletion/MagicView
 * Gary Ellenbogen
 * Articles for deletion/Gary Ellenbogen
 * Articles for deletion/Gary Ellenbogen
 * Articles for deletion/Gary Ellenbogen

Contributors

 * group 1 - Seemingly connected to the Ecco Pro user group
 * - seems to be the same editor as Your So Welcome Thanks on the user group
 * diff
 * - inserted the link that was under discussion and removed without discussion, blocked per WP:DUCK.
 * - supportive of tech group here
 * - both active on Ecco Pro and MagicView. Member of the user group as well, seems very knowledgeable about the subject (see e.g. diff
 * - both active on Ecco Pro and MagicView. Member of the user group as well, seems very knowledgeable about the subject (see e.g. diff
 * - both active on Ecco Pro and MagicView. Member of the user group as well, seems very knowledgeable about the subject (see e.g. diff
 * - both active on Ecco Pro and MagicView. Member of the user group as well, seems very knowledgeable about the subject (see e.g. diff


 * group 2 - compusol?
 * - inserts another user group, and compusol refs (see diff e.g.)
 * - Compusol related - see e.g. diff
 * - gives a huge story about compusol


 * group 3 - Wikipedians not connected to above groups (or at least, which I can't connect to that ..)


 * others

Links

 * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/

Article situations

 * Insertion of references not asserting the text: diff

Accusations

 * Beetstra involved with or influenced by Compusol
 * diff
 * diff
 * diff
 * diff


 * Editors involved with or influenced by Compusol
 * diff


 * continuous accusations of editors that they personally attack others:
 * diff
 * diff


 * Calling other's remarks libellous
 * diff
 * diff
 * diff

Off wiki

 * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/message/6213
 * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/message/6214
 * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/message/6215
 * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/message/6219
 * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/message/6220
 * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/message/7377
 * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/message/7378 <- shows why Wikipedia should link?
 * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/message/7379
 * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/message/7400
 * http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ecco_pro/message/7405

Discussions Outside of Ecco Pro / Talk:Ecco Pro

 * User talk:YSWT
 * User talk:THI

Actual:
 * revid of YSWT's talkpage