User:Bretonbanquet/Talk Archive 4

For previous episodes of Talk Page hilarity, see User:Bretonbanquet/Talk Archive / 2 / 3

Your opinion is requested
As can be seen from my recent contributions, I've been going through a ton of longevity lists and removing flags. This evening, I stumbled across the lists of Spanish Civil War veterans who died in [insert year], and I started removing flags there too; however, I realized that this could be controversial. As you were a great help at Talk:List of living supercentenarians, I was wondering if you could give an opinion on this before I remove the flags from the remaining lists. My feeling is that this falls under the "Do not emphasize nationality without good reason" section of MOSFLAG, as it only matters what side the soldier was on, not whether the soldier was British, Irish, Moroccan, or American. However, I would like the opinion of a 3rd party before proceeding. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい ) 01:41, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. I've gotten a crash course in AWB, as I realized that manually removing all the flags from various longevity lists would give me RSI if I didn't use it.  Every once in a while IPs revert me, but I haven't had any serious objections so far; I'll let you know if it flares up. Thanks again. The Blade of the Northern Lights  ( 話して下さい ) 01:25, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Jeremy Spencer
To save us from toing and froing......I added the Category:English expatriates in the United States as he spent a long and significant amount of time there. Just as Rod Stewart has Category:British expatriates in the United States. Perhaps you can explain why this is an WP:OVERCAT?--Egghead06 (talk) 16:03, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Gibberish-man
Some of those prose sections are almost as brilliant as "I hate stupid people who just edit my articles. They denying my human rights."; I'm starting to raise a chuckle at them! Harsh I know, but merited? Also, might need an archiving here. ;) Cs-wolves  (talk)  21:36, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * They were probably too busy and tired after the marathon of yesterday...Not often you can say that a Formula One race can last longer than NASCAR, and double the length of an IndyCar oval race held on the same weekend! I think there's a non-English notice as part of the UW- templates, but not a warning I don't think. I had a look earlier, as I'm getting rather concerned with the "Engrish". It's basically illiterate. Reverting for now, but we need to persuade to use better English. I know you're not the only one to try him, so we just need to keep it up. Page size was getting up! ;) Cs-wolves  (talk)  22:09, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it'll be the only time we see a Formula One race lasting four hours, and the winner taking six visits through the pit lane; that said, he couldn't better the record of Le Professeur, with his seven at Donington. I had the timing screen up for the last portion of the race along with the TV pictures, and could see Button closing up at a rate of knots. His experience led to the Vettel mistake...his first in a race for a very long time; Spa last year is the last time I can remember him making a mistake during the race. The only thing that left me disappointed was the activation of DRS when the track was still damp...to me, you either use it in the rain or you don't...enabling it part-way through just seemed wrong. Besides, the track always provides overtaking.
 * Le Mans was utterly captivating for start to finish, especially with Audi triumphing despite the spectacular shunts for Nishy and Rocky. Absolutely frightening shunts they both had and a cut and bruises were shared between them. Truly incredible escapes up there with that flip for Peter Dumbreck. I was just happy to get a bit of kip after the basketball had finished, in the early hours. Needed some sleep after it. This was the English template, but it seems a bit generic to me. Thankfully, not at Kevin levels...whom is still editing under that 81.92... IP. I remember I used to delete all the comments instead of archiving...I dread to think if it got out of hand, haha! Cs-wolves  (talk)  22:28, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It certainly sent a few records scattering yesterday. Yes he did; Senna beat Hill by 1:23, and Prost and Herbert were the only ones to finish a lap down as the rest were 2 to 6 laps down by the end, of the eleven that finished. Oh good, glad I'm not the only one! I was cheering on Schumacher, Massa, Kobayashi and Button for their endeavours yesterday...I never do any cheering for a particular driver normally, but hell, yesterday was too wild to not cheer on anyone. Yeah, I suppose it's a little early to fully put a view on DRS, but Valencia next...and we do not want a repeat of "Air Webber", in homage to "Air Král" earlier that day and "Air Teixeira" the month prior in Marrakech. It was more the fact that the track was nowhere near dry enough to be on slicks, yet dry enough for DRS...Just not understandable. Montreal is one of the classics; just glad there is no other FIA-spec circuit elsewhere in Canada, haha!
 * Just as well Audi went closed-cockpit with the R18; I dare not think what could have happened with the open-top. Scary. 1999 was the first Le Mans I remember, because I seem to remember some of the race being shown on terrestrial television on either BBC2 or Channel 4; can't remember which mind you. Oh I know, I've been watching the Stanley Cup also, so I've basically been up to 5am every night for the last two and a bit weeks. So yeah, the NBA has finished and the Stanley Cup may finish tonight, so I might have a greater window to kip from now on. Haha, don't remind me of that...makes a change to not be worrying about something...however, I doubt we'll be favourites to go down in May 2012! Yep, noticed the IP address on the Loris Capirossi page [yep, I have the MotoGP-ers on the watchlist too], and chuckled a little. It's the odd edit a day from what it looks, however... Cs-wolves  (talk)  23:17, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * If I'm honest, I never ever thought Donington would be the rightful home of the British Grand Prix, after that monster deal which ultimately fell through. It's a great circuit for bikes and BTCC, but Formula One would have been a tough ask. Knowing our weather, a wet race would have been the only way for a good race. When Schumacher and Ferrari were winning everything known to man, it was no fun. At least now, he has to work for the results, and he has tied with Rosberg now; each on 26 points, but Schuey is now ahead on head-to-head. Massa definitely kept the foot in and was rewarded after that spin and clunk. Amazingly, I never thought Hispania would have been off the bottom of the standings at any point; but now they are head of Virgin, who look woeful this season. I imagine Glock will be looking for a way out, I feel. I wonder if that was the only reason Lotus signed him up...take the Sonangol sponsorship out Mini A1 Grand Prix Superleague Formula and into Lotus...Team Lotus...the Malaysian Lotus... that team out of Norfolk in green and yellow. [Yep, I wanted the disambiguation to be clear!]
 * I remember the commentator on Le Mans that year when Dumbreck took flight, and it was something like "Oh my God." or along those lines at least. Now that was a time of fear in prototypes, what after the two flips at Road Atlanta in the years around that 1999 flip at Le Mans. Do not get me started on them shows. Hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate them! Ten times doesn't do it justice however. There definitely needs to be a BBC Sport channel to go with the others. Ah, the ice hockey didn't finish last night. Series was tied, so it all comes to a one-game shootout tomorrow night. Eight contributions in the last week, so he has cut it out a bit... Cs-wolves  (talk)  22:41, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Brands is the drivers' circuit; no margin for error, as noted by several rather large shunts there in recent years. I'd love to see the European race move elsewhere, to a circuit in a country not currently hosting races. Algarve has a humdinger of a circuit, and all it's got to show for it, is a GT1 race FIA-wise. The Spanish Grand Prix to Aragón and that would be perfect. Another ballsy circuit. 2002 had that moment and then the other attempted dead heat at Indianapolis. That was just as bad as the A1-Ring for me. D'Ambrosio isn't doing too bad at present, and as long as he doesn't turn to pudding or custard [I'm sorry, I had to!], he'll do fine. He's shot himself in the foot basically, Glock...all the big teams look pretty set with their teams, and in essence would only return to the lower midfield... Still wouldn't mind a 13th team coming in mind you. I'm thinking that Lotus will use Chandhok in India, just to drum up support even more, plus of course Karthikeyan trundling round at the rear. That Mercedes was just damn dangerous! BBC Sport channel would be godly, but there's nothing wrong with all-night sports channels! Better some other crap on TV at that time! Cs-wolves  (talk)  18:44, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I must say, I did enjoy A1 Grand Prix racing there, mind you the format was always going to sink under with a number of teams running into trouble. Superleague race was not bad last year, but was marred by the monster crash of van der Drift...that was a case for push-to-pass going seriously wrong. Estoril is a great bike circuit, but was always falling out of favour as soon as they added that frankly pointless uphill chicane...if ever there was a pointless corner on a circuit, it'd be that one. I know it was for safety reasons after the Senna crash, but get rid of it! Zandvoort is now basically one line all the way around...It's probably why the Formula Three race has finally been won by the same guy (Bottas) after 20 years trying. At least he won't make it three this year, what with him in GP3. Hungaroring is one I would get rid of...but I'd rather see the end of Valencia first. I liked the concept at first, but with a deal until 2016 I think...that won't be on the cars just yet.
 * D'Ambrosio was always spectacular in GP2, but never had the results to show from it mind you...one win from 58 starts and 21 GP2 Asia starts; it was Formula Master where he creamed the field. I think Trulli is performing slightly better than Kovalainen honestly...Heikki has rather disappointed a bit, but that said he has more of the bad luck that the team has suffered this season. I just think Fernandes will elect one of the drivers to step aside and plonk Chandhok in one of the cars. It was always fun when Channel 5 decided to change from their seedy movies late at night for the American sports, but now they have that stupid Super Casino shite dumbing the depths of a black hole on that channel nowadays. So I see...it's a rather large amount of IP vandalism unusually. Protection still a bit off mind you. Cs-wolves  (talk)  19:25, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

It did have its talking points however...cough...Beijing hairpin...cough. Now, that was embarrassing. Yeah, it was Julien Jousse; defended in the wrong place with the consequences massive. The greatest thing about Zandvoort is the three-wheeling Villeneuve. All balls. This is the 25th year of the Hungaroring, and we've seen only one(?) wet race. That said, WTCC had a monster of all rainstorms the other week there for its maiden visit. Yeah, Kobayashi was D'Ambrosio's team-mate at DAMS for a while, after all. ;) Yeah, Checo is a star in the making; he was incredible in British F3, although he didn't manage top three in the main championship - Alguersuari, Hartley and Turvey put paid to that - but his drives at Monza to win both races from mid-pack...some of the greatest F3 charges ever. Circumstances could change, but it would be highly illogical for them to rest experienced drivers that they are. Ah, those were the days...haha. If I wanted to play in the casino, I'd go to a real-life one rather than sit in front of the TV and play. That said, the article has just been semi-protected, haha! Cs-wolves  (talk)  21:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Tried to find it again on Youtube, but alas I couldn't...but my oh my, I chuckled for days after that. Ah yeah; here's hoping it'll do another WTCC and make it a spectacle. Some of his other ideas though, especially medals, leave something sick in the mouth. Haha. Kobayashi won five races in GP2, but they were mainly in Asia...but was always quick; never thought he would make F1 though. Some Checo magic from that Monza round. Frighteningly good at 18, as he was in F3. That Argentine IP has been at it for ages; hellish! Cs-wolves  (talk)  20:21, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Imagine that on the television viewership; who would honestly stick it out knowing that the championship is over three months in advance...He basically took it to the Carlin lot and nearly beat them...that's the closest I can remember to anyone actually beating Carlin in the past five years or so. Not just Formula One, sportscars as well...ran some of the Mercedes juniors in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Maybe they can take advantage of the blown diffuser ban coming next month...but who knows! Cs-wolves  (talk)  21:29, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I imagine viewing figures are at their highest for a long time, but they would take a severe dip with all them shenanigans...Definitely remember them applying in 2009, but they added the GP2 and GP3 teams instead. I would imagine Red Bull will lose a bit, just like Renault... Shall be interesting to view the races from then on! Cs-wolves  (talk)  22:06, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Man, he is persistent... Cs-wolves (talk)  18:41, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I knew it. I had my suspicions due to the "123" at the end, but wasn't too sure. He will make a false move, I am sure of it! Either that or fail to log in. It's a certainty, isn't it? Can't say I've seen any Wikipedia areas focusing on the poor grammar work, before. ;) We might have to investigate. Pronto. Before we see any more edits like this! Cs-wolves  (talk)  18:54, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I suppose it's only fair...at the fourth attempt, if you consider the IP-ing. Oh good, you read it in the same way I did! Haha! Maybe it's a girl that's editing that page...but that's one of the best grammar failings I've seen on here. Getting towards those at the top of this section! Yeah, best option. I can't think of anything other than that...you usually get a quick response on there anyway, don't you? Cs-wolves  (talk)  19:10, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Ron's helped out on a number of occasions where a semi-protection was necessary. I know there's the CSD for the hoax articles, but rather strange that there's not one for edits that are nonsensical. It's disruptive, but not vandalism as you say. It's halfway in between! Cs-wolves  (talk)  20:14, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * At least there will be some motorsport knowledge when considering the decisions, not like the "joe normal" outsiders. Cs-wolves  (talk)  20:59, 22 June 2011 (UTC)


 * This'll save you asking a question! Cs-wolves  (talk)  21:56, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well it is interesting that we now know that a block can be achieved if poor editing continues. Just depends how long we are wishing to give it! Cs-wolves  (talk)  22:14, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

At least we have the warning down on the talk page; that's the first step on the IP slippery slope, so to speak. ;) Cs-wolves  (talk)  22:17, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Then we can point the user to a translation site, if he wishes to translate to his "supposed" language! Cs-wolves  (talk)  22:30, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Still going strong he is. Not for much longer I suspect... Cs-wolves (talk)  23:38, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've lost count on the amount of warnings he has on the talk page; must be near double digits! That said, we never expected Kevin to IP hop and look how many accounts he has used! Should, but I'm not holding out 100% positivity... Cs-wolves  (talk)  23:48, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Definitely up there for the worst IP for the F1 articles! Especially with the similar number of 123 in each of Kevin's usernames except the banned one, it's a given. Times like these where Wiki should be account only! Cs-wolves  (talk)  23:56, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Ten? Fifteen? I don't know... Hell, that's one discussion I would not join! Haha! Cs-wolves  (talk)  00:15, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably a lot of less recent edits, but I'm not certain. Can't say I'll be here to see it happening tomorrow, unluckily. Haha! Cs-wolves  (talk)  00:30, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

You'll never guess what...Oh oh! Cs-wolves  (talk)  14:10, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Do something in a previous life? ;) Haha, but seriously, the edits are still as "great" as ever...Check the diff histories... Cs-wolves  (talk)  20:53, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That said, we have had some stoating journalese on the last few race articles. Italian one especially, it was about 4000 bytes of "eh?" Ron's away at present, so we can't get a hold of him to do the business yet...but, we should give him a window to improve. That or plead to use better English... haha! Cs-wolves  (talk)  21:03, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Phil Lynott again
I was thinking if you feel like expanding Phil Lynott's article somewhat, I can get you some ideal photos of him. I noticed that there is no section for his musical influences or his guitars and bass guitars. I uploaded a photo just now to show him as a younger man, though it would also have been great in an instrument section. Take a look. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 22:06, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

A gift
I've been thinking that the current photo of Eric Bell in the infobox looks like it should belong in a guitar section for him-- I'm assuming you have plans to expand that, too. SO, I uploaded this: to Commons-- great photo from 1972-- thus, there will be 3 pics, this, when he was really young, then the Bo Diddley photo, and last his current photo. Use as you wish! :) --Leahtwosaints (talk) 04:10, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm really glad you like it too-- it always gives me a little glow when I find things like this and friends do appreciate it! Also, did you know that Bell was a member of the Irish showbands? I was looking for a reference for Rory Gallagher's apprenticeship with them, and was a bit surprised when Eric Bell's name jumped out at me: !! In fact, I bet there are a lot of musicians in the Wikipedia whose names are also listed there, too. :) --Leahtwosaints (talk) 23:26, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

fyi - ani
Hi as as do not seem to have been notified, you are mentioned in a report at teh dramah board - Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents - Off2riorob (talk) 21:03, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

81.104.175.117
I've changed your warning to a No.3 (from a No.2) - he's had a No.2. The previous warning should have been a three but sadly User:Noformation reset it back to 1 - typical for shared IP, but this guy is not a shared IP - he's as static as the day is long. Ideally I should have made User:Noformation's a 3 and your's a four, but let's hope he gets the message, but it doesn't seem to be working too well...  Ron h jones (Talk) 18:24, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, well. Time to bring out the big guns. Sigh...  Ron h jones (Talk) 21:11, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I see you didn't like this. I was just trying to remove you from Category:Football biography using deprecated parameters. So long as you are in this maintanence category, you will find bots and other friendly editors attempting to fix your page. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 23:50, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Reply to your post at User talk:Roman Spinner
The above link will point to the comment you posted on my discussion page as well as to my reply.&mdash;Roman Spinner (talk) 05:41, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

You know who...
You have a week's peace and quiet - maybe good considering this w/e coming... Watch out when his block expires.  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:20, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Not a peep out of our friend. Tomorrow (Wed) night 19:54 BST he is live.  Ron h jones (Talk) 21:27, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
 * And now blocked for a month...  Ron h jones (Talk) 19:24, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

3RR
What is 3RR?

Phanuruch8555 (talk) 11:45, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

It's back...
Sorry to do this to you on a Monday, but I thought you'd be interested in this: Sockpuppet investigations/Felipemassa123. Seems wikicancer is harder to get rid of then we thought.  Pyrop e  14:23, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, My Bad
Sorry about that, I just thought it was a typo. Spowell747 (talk) 01:40, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Howdy and thanks for the concern
It's just a bout of cellulitis that has been dogging me since I came home from the hospital on June 4th. for an entirely different issue, but then, you know how it's easier to pick up bacteria in such places. But I assume you dropped by my talk page for a different reason. Lay it on me, bro-- !! (I've been uploading a lot of new photos, BTW.) I put the one of Scott Gorham and Phil Lynott on Scott's article, but I guess you have noticed that. Feel free to do whatever interior decorating there. :) --Leahtwosaints (talk) 09:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not big on barnstars, but I couldn't resist

 * LMFAO! Too right!@


 * ...and i just listened to Jailbreak, also! Bretonbanquet is a warrior! Makes me hungry to see his name....Bridies and pasties scattered everywhere! Serve it up with single malt scotch.... ⋙–Berean–Hunter—►  05:51, 22 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Hahaha, I laughed out loud when I saw these, thanks! I couldn't resist a little dig at that guy - glad you were amused ;) Fine taste in music there, Berean Hunter! Cheers! :) Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:23, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

New "friend" on a Virgin cable
User:82.20.23.104 - let's hope it's not the same one.  Ron h jones (Talk) 13:17, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Re: debut
I didn't just change the word, I wrote a whole new sentence. I'll self-revert though, there's no point in edit-warring. JonChapple Talk 09:03, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Thin Lizzy
Hi there, don't edit war. I've taken Gary Moore out of the associated acts field because he was a member of Thin Lizzy, and members are not to be entered in that field. I've taken Rihanna out because no member of Thin Lizzy has been a regular member of that act, obviously. It would be better for everyone if you don't re-add those two. Thanks, Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:17, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Gary Moore was mistakenly added back when I undid the edit. My original edit added Guns 'N Roses and Rihanna, both of which Richard Fortus performs with. Fortus' own Wiipedia article references both acts, so I think they deserve to be listed here. Discuss. MossChops99 (talk) 21:46, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Jack Jeffery
Hi, no I don't sorry, it's just one of those things. It is as per a WikiProject Football consensus to include full club names though. Perhaps ask at WT:FOOOTY to see if anyone else knows how to reduce the width, but I get the feeling it can't be done. Cheers, --Jimbo[online] 23:32, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

2011–12 Southern Football League
Good morning, I'm getting more involved with non-league matters as promised and I was wondering if you have any qualms about more information being added to 2011–12 Southern Football League so that it matches 2011–12 Football Conference? I would be happy to maintain it, and I'd be glad to help out with the Western League as well if you need it. What do you make of all the speculation surrounding Mr Heaney's attempt to enhance his portfolio? Suffice to say I have seen and heard a lot of things that I really don't like. It beggars belief what has been going on, and still is, but there isn't much that can be done. I have the pleasure of watching my first love as a shell of what it should be and a lot of people getting hurt while the suits play pass the parcel with the Football League. It hurts like hell and I'm not happy, but we'll get through it. When did Arsley Town change their ground name? xD Argyle 4 Life  talk  00:36, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Good stuff, I'll make a start on it tomorrow. I agree about the way that new teams are listed for each division in the Southern League over the Conference, much easier on the eye. Heaney, sorry I mean BIL (a consortium of Irish investors supposedly), want to buy the lot and then sell the club itself for £1, keeping the ground and the land around it for themselves to charge rent. As you say, if this happens then the club will be fine if he runs into trouble at some point because it's separate. The ground, with the lease agreement in place, would be up for grabs again and in a best case scenario be bought by Plymouth City Council. I've heard about him closing down a company so hundreds of creditors got nothing, him falling off the rich list completely, boarding up the letter box of his Truro office and receiving CCJs. So quite where he is getting £6m+ from to do this I don't know. Ridsdale would be the new owner and while I like his enthusiasm and resourcefulness, I wouldn't trust him for a second. I reckon Truro City will be fine this season, as long as the funding doesn't stop. Great to see a Cornish side at that level. Argyle 4 Life  talk  22:39, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The one that's fresh in my mind is Bradford City. I was wondering why they had been stuck in division four as long as they have and then this came out, pretty ridiculous. Home Park and the land around it is protected by covenants but I'm sure whoever does end up owning it will try to build something else alongside a grandstand. Heaney and some planners were caught with blue-prints of the ground a while ago in a restaurant by some of our supporters meeting James Brent. It was hilarious. Heaney originally wanted to build a multiplex cinema. Can you imagine something like that in Central Park? Crazy. Let's hope that we win tomorrow so I'll have something to cheer. Argyle 4 Life  talk  23:48, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah I saw that, must have been nice to see (sarcasm alert), the changes that were made were hideous. I can't see Bradford doing much this season and sadly I don't we'll do any better. I was so angry and fed up last night that I stayed away from here. Prior to the match there was more fluff from the administrator about the money being there and then came another defeat. They're really trying and we're playing good football, but we have little experience, Tom Hitchcock made a mess of a 1-on-1 and when we conceded heads dropped and there was no coming back. We need more experienced players and a defensive coach but it won't happen while Heaney has us over a barrel. At least our home looked beautiful last night. I'm hearing that City might be sold soon and a buyer could be Hayles but who really knows since nobody likes being honest down here. Argyle 4 Life  talk  12:53, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you'll be fine, Orient have got a good enough squad. Plenty of options upfront and I've always considered Cox and Spring to be good players. Heaney has been the preferred bidder since May. The official line is that it's an Irish consortium fronted by him but we're not stupid. We've been calling it the Preferred Heaney. I can't understand why he would want to own the ground apart from boosting his ego. The land is situated in a park with covenants and the guy has little to no liquid assets, along with a woeful credit rating. If it goes through and we can get ourselves moving in the right direction again then fantastic but it won't be the end of it. We'll be tenants to the council again before too long. Nine of our starting eleven on the opening day made their debut and I'd say the average age last night was 22. They'll need time to gel and most of them are very inexperienced. I have started work on the additions to the article in a sandbox (as you can probably tell by me editing some templates) and it looks good so far. I've never done a map before though so it could end in disaster. I would ask if you could help but I don't want it to be an inconvenience. Argyle 4 Life  talk  23:47, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I managed to suss out the maps so I've added it all in now. The Division One Central map was quite frankly ridiculous, but I managed to get them all in without crossing over. Maybe they should rename it the how many clubs can you get between London and Reading division. We got to 0-0 at half time again on Saturday and then it all went to pot in the last 15 minutes. I'm trying to ignore as much of the off-field stuff as I can now because it has been making me ill. Heaney has until Friday to complete, otherwise the administrator will go to the contingency plan and if he gives them enough time we'll be able to start moving forward. Argyle 4 Life  talk  23:40, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the Barnstar
Hey Bretonbanquet! Thank you very much for the music Barnstar that you bestowed upon me. I really do appreciate it. Kohoutek1138 (talk) 09:28, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Football Conference
Mr. Bretonbanquet,

I was, to say the least, not very pleased with your decision to revert my edits, now apparently on more than one of the articles on which I have worked. However, I appreciate your decency in that you at least wrote to me about what you had done and explained your reasons for this.

In response I would like to state the following:

The format of the tables
When I started to work on the various Wikipedia articles on the English football seasons, there was very little available, usually just simple tables, done by someone who calls himself “Nameless User”, with no source indicated.

Presenting data with no mention of a source is, by all accounts, not the desirable way to do things in Wikipedia. In fact, such data could be removed at any time, especially if one replaces them with data with a source.

Also, the tables were done in a very crude way: column widths had not been specified, no empty columns used (and could not have been used since column widths had not been specified) to aid the reader in deciphering what was what in the tables. And hardly any colours being used to aid the readers.

I then came upon the The Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation (see links below) and their English football seasons pages, and then I heard from the local Sports Museum in my hometown that they are a very authoritative source of information, quite possibly the best and most trustworthy internet source available anywhere.

I started with the Football League on Saturday 2 Jan, 2010, in a situation in which there was more than just a table only for the first ever season, and then some 70 seasons with nothing but the table (and mostly no colours used in the tables).

I decided to base the Wikipedia tables on the The Rec. Sport. Soccer Statistics Foundation table for the reason that they had just about everything that I thought was essential (and because I did not have to type everything myself).

Thus the tables came to have the home and the away statistics separated, in order to present more info than what a simple table would be able to offer. (I also remembered from way back in the 1970’s that that’s how our newspapers presented the tables of the English Football League one every week. — Thus I knew that that was the standard approach in professional circles.)

In our local Sports Museum, they also have a complete collection of the Rothmans Football Yearbooks, starting from 1970–71 (it’s now the Sky Sports Football Yearbook), and I was informed by their football specialist that those books are the ultimate sources on English (and British) football. They also present the tables the same way, only they include full data of the season last in their table; thus they have three sets of things there: (1) home record, (2) away record, (3) total record.

I decided that the last (3rd), could be presented in an abbreviated form, thus making the presentation a bit narrower, and thus easier on the readers of Wikipedia.

Have I removed any information?
You state that I have “removed some very useful features that are required at various stages of the season in order to understand the league tables (such as the promotion / relegation / play-off symbols after the club’s names)

This is simply not true, none of it. Promotion, participation in play-offs, promotion through play-offs, and relegation (or expulsion). These things have been coded into the colours that I have used. And in case you have not noticed: the colour codes are explained in the Key box, presented just below each table.

On the other hand, in the previous tables there would just be a “C”, and a “P”, and a “R”, but nowhere is it explained what these mean. And the colour used for the teams that participated in the play-offs but failed to gain promotion has no explanation at all. I find this very poor service to the readers of these articles.

Have you removed any information in reverting to earlier versions?
In my versions, I had

(1) More detailed maps than were previously available, and in a standard format, starting from the Football League inaugural season of 1888–89, right up until the 2007–08 season.

(2) I also had maps showing the locations of the London teams, and you did away with these as well.

(3) I had infoboxes for all divisions, and you did away with these as well. (And they had a wealth of information, too.)

(4) I had more adequate play-off brackets, and you did away with these as well.

(5) I had a more comprehensive listing of top scorers, including
 * play-off goals,
 * FA Cup goals,
 * FA Trophy goals,
 * League Cup goals,

or at least spaces for these, so that they could be added (possibly by myself, from the Sky Sports Football Yearbooks, as time allows); and you did away with these as well.

(6) I also had sources for every single item I had put in these articles, including the tables. You have reverted to older versions with no sources cited.

When you have decided to remove all this, I am tempted to use the “V” word, and make these facts more widely known.

Use of sources
As I mentioned above, (1) one should always state one’s source when writing in Wikipedia.

In addition, in my opinion,

(2) Secondly, reliable printed sources should take precedence over what is available in the internet.

(3) Thirdly, if the most reliable internet source and the most reliable printed source agree, then one can safely assume that one has the correct data in one’s Wikipedia presentation.

To my knowledge, I have used the ultimate sources, both in the internet (The Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation, for the Football League throughout its history, until a couple of seasons ago, and for the Football Conference, starting with the first data they present, i.e. from the 2003–04 season on.)

Posssible difficulties with the format of the tables
Your difficulties in reading the tables might be the consequence of a computer screen that is too narrow to be able to display everything correctly. When I started this work, my screen was 20' (diagonally, that is, now it’s 27'). According to my measurements, 17' horizontally is enough so that you can see everything in the tables. In some cases, depending on the specific contents, even 13' horizontally will enable the computer to display everything correctly.

Of course, not everybody has a 20' screen, if you have a laptop, then most likely you don’t have even 17', perhaps only 15'. Computer owners should understand that the less they invest in their computers, the more likely it is that they will have problems viewing everything in the net the way things have been intended to be viewed. If you try to access pages, such as the one that I have designed, with an iPhone then you should understand that your problems will be even greater. That, however, is no excuse for denying others the possibility of designing more refined web pages and yet others of reading them.

There are also factors intrinsic to Wikipedia that are partly responsible for your problems: The infoboxes and maps are based on templates that dictate that they “float right”. That is, they appear on the right hand side, as there is space for them. The “float right” can be taken out of the source code of the maps, but they still float right. If they did not, they would appear in the order the data is written, and this problem would not arise. I do not know how to change these specifications, and I’m not even sure it would be desirable to do so from the point of view of the wider Wikipedia community. You might make your case with people who have the authority to change these things.

There is a solution to this problem that I have thought to suggest to the Wikipedia community:

Wikipedia also has the “English Football Seasons” article, such as 2005–06 in English football. Just looking at that season, I noticed that the Football Conference tables are not given there. (But looking at the league tables, you get an idea of what the tables have been prior to my involvement, and these happen to be the most “advanced” examples — To my the colours for the top teams are extremely ugly, and please note, no key is given for the use of the colours.)

What we could do it to present more concise tables in these articles, and add a note in the main articles, next to each league table, to the effect that “if you have problems with the tables presented here, you can go to the 2005–06 in English football article where you will find concise league tables.”

The colours used in the tables
When I started my work, it was with the Football League. During the history of this competition, there are rather many things with you could and should present with various colours, and they increase from the 1950’s on, with the European competitions, addition of the League Cup, and finally with the play-offs (of which there was an early version, the test matches).

I opted for pastel colours mostly. FFCCCC had already been in use to mark relegation, and I believe F08080 was also in use, signifying “failing the re-election process”. I was very happy with those colours myself. I feel that using brighter colours (I don’t exactly know what kind of colours you would wish for) would distract one’s attention from the main thing in the tables, that is, the figures and the words.

It should be clear to everyone that the Football League should take precedence when one deliberates what colours should be used in what league. Thus, the colours used for qualification for European competitions from the 1950’s on, should not be used for lower leagues, such as the Football Conferences. On the other hand, some of the colours could be the same, such as for the play-off slots, and promotion thru play-offs.

You complain that the colours I have “used were very hard on the eyes as well”. In view of the fact that I have used these colours for over 19 months and across more than a century’s worth of football seasons in England, and that you are the first person to complain, it seems to me that this is a very rare complaint.

On the other hand I have noticed that the colours I have designed (which indeed is very difficult and takes an enormous amount of time) have spread to at least the Russian Wikipedia (the English Football League articles), and that some people had used the colours for new teams in the league even before I had had the time to do so, it may not be an exaggeration to say that people in general have not been unhappy with the colours I have designed.

Your claim that these colours “very hard on the eyes”, could possibly be due to the fact that I have observed, that the colours on PCs appear paler or more faint than on a Mac. Also, the colours appear to become even more faint depending on the angle of our screen to your eyes, which is in constant change if your computer is a laptop.

If this is the case, then I don’t really see grounds for your complaint.

Also, you don’t specify which colours are “very hard on the eyes” — surely not every single colour?

I would advise you, instead of reverting back to “ancient” versions of these articles, to restore the versions you had rejected, and find the solution to your problems in creating new data, as the need arises, in other articles, along the ideas presented above. This would be a service to everyone, and when doing so, you would not flush down the toilet other contributors’ work, which they might have accumulated over months if not years.

Since you appear to be a person that contributes to Wikipedia a lot, and surely mostly positive and welcome things, I hope you do understand the concerns and thoughts expressed in this message.

Sincerely, in the interests of English football (and the fatherland of this game),

Apanuggpak (talk) 21:28, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Whoops
Thanks I'll db-author nominate it. Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:37, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Phil with a black eye?
Saw this:  Wonder what the story was behind that?! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 09:15, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Now that I think of it...
Why don't you help as a random feedback reviewer with other articles? See WP:FRS. It doesn't take a lot of time, so while whenever we take a break from taking over the world and corrupting our references before we ever use them (hah)-- this would be a good thing. Please think it over. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 17:54, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Help
I tried to reference a death at Hackberry Ramblers, but it won't go through. What's wrong? B-Machine (talk) 16:20, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

A little help?
I can never seem to be able to archive my talk page! It hates me, I just don't get it. I need to archive everything up until and including maybe right after my notice about being sick in --what? July? Could you do it for me? I'd be so happy. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 10:00, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'm so damned computer illiterate! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 11:59, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Sergio Pérez (Checo)
I do apologize, but do you not think by saying and I quote you sir, "This is the English language Wikipedia, not the Mexican Wikipedia." There was no need for that comment, as I took it as a racial comment, because there is no need to say Mexican Wikipedia. You do not see me saying a British or United States version. That I feel trying to beneath my Country. Once again, I do apologize, I hope you can do the same as you from the beginning you started attacking me as appose to teaching me how to do it correctly. Hazerduz (talk) 01:59, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe that was an apology from you, so I'll take it. I, like you have been a long contributor for Wikipedia. I'm sure you more than me. All I want to do, probably the same for you is to make things nicer and probably more elaborate at times. If the way I have been doing things is wrong, I don't mind someone telling me as long as they show me after. So yes I would like to learn more so I can be a better contributor. (talk) 02:27, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Flag icons
Believe it or not, this is starting to flare up again at List of surviving veterans of the Spanish Civil War, and I suspect it will come up elsewhere. If there's not a talkpage discussion, I'll start one tomorrow. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい ) 04:46, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Aero (chocolate)
My addition of serial commas added clarity and achieved consistent usage of serial commas in the Aero (chocolate) article. Before my edit, there was one sentence with a serial comma and some without. As previous stated on my talk page which I directed you to, there was no consistent usage either way, for or against serial commas. My edit created consistency, which is a stated goal on wikipedia, and since neither style is officially preferred, my edit was acceptable. It also has nothing to do with regional varieties of english—this is not a UK vs. USA issue for example. When you manually removed my added commas you also missed one, which removed the consistency I had added to the article, though you also made other constructive edits which were helpful. You said "it still wasn't consistent"; the entire article may not have been consistent, but the usage of serial commas was consistent. As I was writing this you posted on my talk page that I should have removed the two serial commas that were there, but that would have reduced the clarity and readability of the article. Additionally, in such a short article with multiple editors which was already suffering from improper grammar, there was no definite style already present, so my edits actually improved the style by adding consistency. --danhash (talk) 20:10, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The chocolate bar was created by Rowntrees. There were more instances of no serial commas before BB made the change. Per WP:ENGVAR, seems pretty cut and dry to me. JonC Talk 20:22, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * ENGVAR is about national varieties of English. As stated, this is not an issue about a national variety of english. --danhash (talk) 20:26, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I disagree that serial commas improve clarity and readability, in fact I believe the opposite - they're entirely superfluous and constitute punctuation clutter. You will accept that there's a difference of opinion on this, hence there's no preference on Wikipedia. If your belief was accepted as correct, serial commas would be preferred in all articles. On the other point, serial commas are not standard usage in British English, so I believe WP:ENGVAR is relevant. The article had an extremely small number of Americanisms - I think one, in fact - the use of "specialty". I did miss one serial comma, yes, simply because in a diff it's hard to see what has been changed, and I did not fully read the article at that time. I have since caught that one too. I didn't revert you completely because your other edits were good ones. I never delete them from articles in which they are commonplace, particularly those written in US English. Also, I would venture to suggest that fixing serial commas and leaving other comma errors and grammatical problems isn't as helpful as going through the whole thing and fixing all such problems. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:27, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Not gonna keep arguing with you on it. You seem to have more time to spend on that article than I do; have at it. --danhash (talk) 15:35, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Again
At The Ethiopians, I was adding references about the death of one of the members and I see a Reflist feature in the edit function, but it won't go through. B-Machine (talk) 16:24, 30 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Forget I asked. I found the problem and fixed it. B-Machine (talk) 16:25, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

RE Infobox guidelines
Hey Bretonbanquet,

You may recall we discussed the infobox guidelines for bands with regards to AC/DC a while back. I was just wondering if I could ask for your view on whether I've misinterpreted the guidelines. Another user seems to think I've got them all wrong, and I'd just like a second opinion on the matter. The relevent discussion topic on my page is User_talk:Burbridge92.

Kind regards,

Burbridge92 (talk) 19:14, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

How to break a tie for Formula One Champ
I did not know that, Bretonbanquet, about the tie-breaking mechanism for Formula One Racing, when I made my recent edit at 2011 Japanese Grand Prix. That makes sense, that should Button win all remaining races, he would have won only 7, while Vettel has already won 9, thereby making Vettel undisputed champion. You are brilliant, my friend, and I concede defeat on this point! :-) --Skol fir (talk) 16:42, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You got me looking for more, and here it is:

The tie-breaker situation is this: This carries on down all the positions (yes it is theoretically possible for a title to be decided on the strength of one 22nd place!) In the unlikely event that any of the above not work, the FIA reserves the right to award the title however they choose. Though if it gets this far, I would argue that a joint title would be more appropriate...
 * First, check that points are not tied (this usually solves the problem...)
 * Second, whoever has the most wins takes the title, assuming points are equal.
 * Third, whoever has the most seconds takes the title, assuming points and wins are equal.
 * Fourth, whoever has the most thirds takes the title, assuming points, wins and seconds are equal.
 * I got this from a Forum at Home of Sport. --Skol fir (talk) 16:56, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm a bit off on the Twix thing
I'm not clear on what a "box of celebrations" is and why its mere contents are relevant enough to grace the introduction of the twix article. Seems to me that if the item itself doesn't warrant an article, a candy bar's inclusion (or lack thereof) certainly doesn't warrant a mention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daikiki (talk • contribs) 04:27, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Metal: A Head Bangers Journey
The reason Sam Dunn listed Slade and Sweet Glam Metal is because he was including bands that were influential on the genre. An example is in traditional heavy metal where he lists Jimi Hendrix and Cream because they were highly influential on the genre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamcad01 (talk • contribs) 06:24, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Michael Andretti
I reverted your re-addition of the flag in the infobox. He may have represented the U.S. for part of his career, but not for all of it, and adding the flag adds undue prominence. See WP:MOSFLAG. --Hammersoft (talk) 17:55, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, the flag was meant for the F1 infobox, and in F1 he represented the USA. That's why I didn't revert you in the other articles. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:00, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Non-league task force
Hey mate, long time no speak. Just to let you know that I've revamped the English non-league task force page to try and make it a better working project. I've added an assessments department which can keep track of the quality of non-league articles. I've also started a list of Featured and Good Articles within the scope of the task force. Thought you may like to take a look. Cheers.  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  18:44, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, they're performing about as well as they were last season at this stage, but unfortunately already out of the FA Cup after a shock loss to Lancaster City F.C., though they deserved to beat us. I got my first GA article on Monday in the form of FC United, hopefully get it to FA at some point but it's a daunting task. Lots of season articles to get through then, I'll give you a hand with some of them if you give me a shout when you're ready to start with them. The task force page has some good sources for them if you need. Keeping up to date with Truro City too, may have to seeing as I found out a few months back that one of my great great grandmothers came up to Manchester from Truro on a horse and cart in the 1800s haha.  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  19:23, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Sound like you're sorted for sources then. Would be a good part of a trip to Cornwall! You're also welcome to come up to Manchester and see how fan-owned football's developing here. Find out if we have permission to build our new stadium on the 27th. Hopefully it'll be open for next season and we can stop playing at bury where it costs about £5,000 a game to play O_O . How's the Stadium for Cornwall coming along?  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  09:48, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing my redundant Dominique Durand wikilinks
Could have sworn she had her own page, but you are right. Maybe because she was wikilinked on the Ivy page itself, but I've fixed that. Anyway, thanks! --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 02:06, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries - I nearly made the same mistake myself when I was writing the article originally ;) Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:54, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Survey for new page patrollers
Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of Wiki Media Foundation at 11:54, 25 October 2011 (UTC).

Good source for Phil Lynott?
I got a message on my talk page from User:Agadant who did such an amazing job in bringing Van Morrison up to GA status-- heck, I'd have gone for FA review had it been me! Anyway, you can read the note on my talk page but here's the URL: Hoping maybe its helpful with any of the Thin Lizzy articles you work on or specifically Phil Lynott? I've just moved to a new apartment so my cable line is just being added for the computer. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 04:49, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

1900–01 Western Football League
I just thought I'd let you know that I saw your article 1900–01 Western Football League in the New Articles list-- However, I noticed there are some holes that may need filling: some of the article's Wikilinks are broken. Jipinghe (talk) 18:58, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Have a look at this
Howdy- a new editor left me a note on my talk page basically wondering why I added Thin Lizzy as a band from Northern Ireland. He is at this talk page: User talk:Mythpiano. You can read my response- mainly that it was formed by Phil Lynott, Brian Downey, and Eric Bell (and Gary Moore) from the start. Seems a lot of people aren't aware of that. IMO, so long as Downey remains in any resurgance of Thin Lizzy, it shouldn't be challenged, and (I didn't check the rules on this), but I'd probably still hold fast to the band originating in Northern Ireland. They sure aren't from Washington, D.C.!! :) --Leahtwosaints (talk) 10:45, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agree. My personal stance with the band being from Northern Ireland remains the same for two reasons: at the start, that Lynott and Downey were the actual "founders" with the idea to form a band, and, that if any of the two of them are still active using the band name, as Downey is doing, then I stand firm on this classification. Just wanted you to know about the inquiry of a newbie editor, and my stance on it. Hell, there are all these biographies where some guy was born in Michigan, but raised in California, and both places are listed on their talk page as if they are of equal significance as to where they are "from". --Leahtwosaints (talk) 23:48, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Eddie Irvine
I was browsing around and came across this Eddie Irvine, I read the info on drivers nationality the last chat we had and there seems to be a conflict here , it shows a Union Flag as for Northern Ireland , which left me wondering. The section should be covered by nationality as per licence issue, which was Ireland [] "he had an Irish racing license the FIA decreed he should have a Tricolour flying". So I am confused as why this cant be side stepped by a Northern Ireland flag icon. Cheers if you can clear this up for me .Murry1975 (talk) 00:53, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry just found this one [], at least now I see why , thanks for your help (even if you didnt get to point it out this time ).Murry1975 (talk) 00:55, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Adam Carroll
Can you explain to me how you assert that Carroll is British, thanks. Mo ainm ~Talk  22:58, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Apart from being born in the UK and being British according to the official website of the series he races in and his employer ? Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:06, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Those sources don't show where his licence is issued from, something which you have mentioned, is it not within the realms of possibility that those flags are being used due to his place of birth? Mo ainm  ~Talk  23:10, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Frankly no, I find it inconceivable that both sources (both of which are reputable) could get something like that wrong. It's not the nationality of the licence that we're bothered about, it's the nationality on the licence that counts. I accept that this is fairly complicated - I've even got it wrong myself on occasions. I was under the impression that they were always the same, but apparently it is possible for a national body to issue a licence which displays a different nationality to that of the body itself. In other words, even if Carroll had a licence issued by Motorsport Ireland (and I've never seen any suggestion that he does), it would still show his nationality as British, as proved by the GP2 site. The piece you quoted on Carroll's talk page from the FIA Superlicence article has it right. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:22, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * And that is the section from them FIA that I placed on the talk page, but I still don't see any sources saying who issued his licence or what is on it. For what it's worth I took the article off my watch list a while ago as my position has always been no flags in the infobox and hasn't changed on this or any article. Mo ainm  ~Talk  23:33, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * That's right, and I doubt you'll find any sources anywhere that state exactly "this is what is on racing driver X's licence" - the relevant information is just repeated by the usual sources; his series, his team etc. On my licence it simply stated "British", and I imagine a simple statement of nationality is similarly printed on Carroll's and everyone else's. To see what that is, we look at the relevant sites, his series, his team etc. His ethnicity is undoubtedly Irish, no doubt about that, but ethnicity is not sufficient to determine nationality. In terms of his nationality, a Northern Irish person can be either a citizen of the UK or the ROI as per the Good Friday Agreement, I believe. We have sources to say his nationality is British, but nothing to say it's ROI or that he's a dual citizen. So there we are. If he pops up in F1 (and hopefully he will) and the FIA show him as Irish (ROI) then I'll be the first to change his article. Until then, we have what we have. The flag issue doesn't really affect the nationality issue itself. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:48, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Flag icons in infoboxes
Please see [] Longwayround (talk) 18:35, 10 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. A note on the Talk:David Coulthard page would have been helpful. I shall add one now. Longwayround (talk) 18:51, 10 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks :) Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:59, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Fleetwood Mac
Hi Bretonbanquet. I've been reading through many of the Fleetwood Mac related article lately and think they are well done. I noticed that you are the main contributor to most of these pages (along with many other very good music related articles) and just wanted to pass a long a note of thanks for all your hard work in making Wikipedia very informative... and very trustworthy. Keep up the good work and again, thanks! Happy New Year! Mr Pyles (talk) 23:25, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Try and show some respect for other editors
You might try actually looking at edits before you revert them and leave nasty messages on other editor's talk pages. Kuguar03 (talk) 21:26, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You might want to look a bit harder yourself, since you introduced false information, removed accurate sourced information, then added a note telling other editors to leave it like that. I reserve respect for editors who don't do stuff like that. Bretonbanquet (talk) 01:14, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Editor called I am Help/Peter Green Musician page
I am not the editor "I am help", although I agree he seems to have cloned a style I use! I also wish to point out that he/she edited changes made by "Mild Bill Hiccup", who carried out a copy edit after your original alterations.

Please note that I have just made further additions to references in the sections "Early Years" and John Mayalls Bluesbreakers --Tunebroker (talk) 23:08, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Discussion about standardisation of league tables
Hi Breton. Just thought I'd point out to you a discussion (here) that's going on about what standard to use for league tables. It starts with a complaint about the same user that started changing the Football Conference season format last year. It seems they posted you an essay in reply to your questions back then!  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  15:40, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

F1 stuff
Then make sure they don't give me so many reasons to disrespect them. Rational discourse doesn't go very far in a place that is governed by stunningly irrational rules. "The launch dates of the 2012 cars don't belong on the article for the 2012 season." Are you kidding me? Can you read that without gasping in shock from the inherent ignorance of it? Wicka wicka (talk) 00:01, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * NO. THAT IS NOT HOW LOGIC WORKS. THOSE ARE TERRIBLE, AWFUL, INANE AND IRRELEVANT REASONS. We are talking about launch dates for 2012 CARS in a fucking article for the 2012 SEASON. THERE IS NO WAY YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND THIS. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. Wicka wicka (talk) 04:02, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It's been explained to you enough times - that's how it is. If you want to try and change the consensus, do so in the right place, preferably without the invective. Otherwise you can pretty much take it or leave it. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:10, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Your comment in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One
Hi Bretonbanquet, I'm not happy with the connotations of your comment "I'm not keen at all on this current wave of POV-pushing concerning the Enstone facility" in the second block of this edit you made to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One. Please read WP:POVPUSH, and reconsider whether you think your choice of words was appropriate in the context. -- de Facto (talk). 23:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Note that I didn't mention your name at any point. I'm happy with my choice of words. Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:01, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, we can discuss it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Formula One then. Thanks. -- de Facto (talk). 10:24, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Ayrton Senna
Just thought I'd look around the gate and say, yes that's exactly what I meant here. And you can tell Ayrtonfan that I edit the encyclopedia because I care about it, not so much about a Brazilian who could be a brilliant driver but a petulant sod when he didn't get his way. But you knew that. (Wouldn't he squeal if someone took all the NPOV out of the article? I've got this week off work and the weather's rubbish....!) Britmax (talk) 11:40, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

NPL
Hey Breton, was wondering if you'd be able to update the NPL tables for me today as I won't be able to. Thanks very much if you can, no worries if you can't.  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  12:52, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help :) Yeah, that guy does beat me to the Division One South table quite often. The time when it's annoying is if it edit conflicts with me updating it at the same time and I realise I've just wasted my time. It's crunch time now in the league, FC almost pushing for the playoffs but drew with Frickley yesterday. Can't believe we didn't win, hit the post twice, crossbar once, goal disallowed >_< Lots of effort going into raising cash for the new stadium right now. £2 million raised by less than 2,000 people so far. We've now got about a month to raise an additional £100,000 in order to secure grants from the Football Foundation and Sport England. Can't wait for it to be built! How's life in Conference South? Truro seem to be holding their own pretty well. Thanks again for the updates.  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  22:40, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Just to let you know, the final £100,000 was raised! Looks like FC are gonna have a football ground in just over a year. I'll be celebrating this weekend no doubt :D  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  01:37, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

To User:Jojhutton
If you honestly consider my posts on your talk page to be two personal attacks, then I strongly urge you to report me, or desist from claiming that I am attacking you. Next time you falsely accuse me of a personal attack, I promise you that it will be me reporting you. If you think they were personal attacks, I don't know how you get through the day. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:32, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Nomination of Semtex (drink) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Semtex (drink) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Semtex (drink) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. ▫  Johnny Mr Nin ja  00:44, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Re: Double ESP
No problem at all...ah, don't blame yourself...just blame it on the early races! ;) Us Brits just aren't used to races at this hour – and despite watching Formula One since 1995, it still has never changed, embarrassingly! – and our vision is probably impaired...or that's how I see it! Not a bad opener, wasn't it? Craig  (talk)  19:37, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It's rare that I fall back to sleep after an early race, but I couldn't stop myself after Sunday...mind you, watching Sebring to the end didn't help with that...or staying up and watching all the pre-race shenanigans! Qualifying was unusually brilliant, and that's always the case to an above average race. Some of the overtaking moves were outrageous...but some things never change...Massa finding a car to prang...you couldn't write it! Going to be intriguing this weekend to see if the Mercedes cars are as quick as they say they are...that and GP2 racing in Sepang...although the field is so inferior to Formula Renault 3.5 this year. I've linked them both so you can decide for yourself. ;) I had Vettel for victory [no bets, luckily; just the Autosport predictor], but the McLarens on the podium. Got that part right, even though Hamilton looked like he was going to punch someone; face was tripping him! Craig  (talk)  01:02, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Nope; same boat as you. Used the same stream all weekend; was top notch! Haha. The thought of lining Murdoch's pockets with money sickens me to the stomach. Just hooked a laptop into the TV, and it was perfect. Mind you, that Ferrari is a bit of a twitcher this year! Formula Renault 3.5 is full and the first race isn't until May. Absolutely astonishing for a top class series to have everything settled this early. Mind you, the way our single-seater ladder is going, the continent might be the only viable option; Formula Renault UK has been canned this year, F3 has the princely sum of 13 cars so far and some of the others have average numbers. Not good. I can sense a 1-2 for McLaren and another win for Button personally. A former Sepang winner when you consider the half-points race, and maybe Schumacher for a podium? At least it is at a slightly more humane hour on Sunday morning: 9am. :) Craig  (talk)  01:42, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Viewing figures spoke volumes too; 3.2 million people watched the BBC highlights programme on the Sunday afternoon, not bad when you consider 3.1 million watched the live coverage in 2011; whereas the Sky live coverage averaged 875,000. Nearly fourfold difference. I know the GP2 races and IndyCar opener are on the channel this weekend; we'll see how those figures match up to previous seasons; especially with GP2 in relation to Eurosport. F3 too expensive?! It's worryingly extortionate. Last I heard quoted was a figure of between £500k and £750k for a decent season's running...Frightening. Certainly don't think Scherzinger is a person that would cheer Hamilton up in a hurry, with the amount of times they've split up already. [sniggers away] But yeah, Button looks the stronger driver in the match-up; people thought Hamilton would be defeating him every week, but just no. Kimi will do fine if he doesn't fluff the gears/time/brakes up [delete as applicable] and the HRTs can't do any worse than last week! Craig  (talk)  00:48, 22 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The Guardian posted a bunch of figures for their coverage; for the whole programme (4:30–9:00) it was an average of 526,000 viewers. The race itself had 874,000 average viewers, while the peak was 1.02m. Some people are believing that Sky will be quietly pleased with that, but I'm not too sure that they expected such a large gap between their figures and BBC. £50-75k an event if you want to make better sense of the F3 figures. Outrageous. Personally, I would substitute Scherzinger for Kimberly Wyatt; but of course, that's my humble opinion...very flexible woman! HAHAHAHAHA! Button's close to 2009 form, or even way back to when he dominated FFord in 1998. Hell, Minardi had their fans; HRT is the 2012 Minardi...nowhere near the likes of Life and Andrea Moda just yet! Craig  (talk)  00:40, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, very true. Will be interesting to see this weekend's figures. Race at a more Europe-friendly hour; if the figures are worse than Australia, then I can't see how the seven-year deal will go the whole distance...Personally, I don't think the Croft/Brundle combination will work. Crofty yaks away far too much and hardly letting Brundle get a word in; then there is the Sauber/Williams debacle and Croft can't tell them apart. I mean, it's totally obvious which one is which! Haha; always here to introduce new women! [ahem] Yes, back to the motorsport. The DRS has helped them definitely this weekend; remember we slated GP2 for its talent...17 drivers within a second in qualifying. Might stay up for the race, now! Craig  (talk)  01:56, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that's why it failed first time round; F1 just is not a PPV event. Just a bit; but he seems suitable for his other role, when he is doing the darts in January! Ha. Stop the startwatch. Classic Walker. I can see one HRT finishing, but I don't know which one. Hell, Marussia got both cars classified in Australia! Serenelli is a 30-year-old Venezuelan, who hasn't competed in a full season since 2010, and got in the way of the lead battle yesterday. That said, the marshals didn't blue flag him! We probably could, but I'm sure I'd be struggling to get my stature into a GP2 car! Me being at the Justin Wilson end of the height scale! Craig  (talk)  02:00, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

HRT were quite a surprise in the race; Karthikeyan ran in the points (okay, luckily!) before getting in the wars. Vettel wasn't pleased with him either...very rare rattling of him. Cooler weather; still warmer than here, but! Was a great race; I've always thought Pérez was gonna be a big 'un; winning those races from deep in the pack in F3 in 2008 (at Monza of all places for T-Sport; aged 18!) and it was proven in the race. Another thing we also know: Alonso is the best driver in those conditions. Virtually unflappable...and leads the championship in that Ferrari. Amazing. Sauber have a quick car in changeable conditions too. Kobayashi-san might get a podium that way too! Haha, Teixeira is Teixeira, but Serenelli is probably the next Claudio Langes! I notice Sky failed with their IndyCar coverage they promised; still showing a re-run of the F1 race as the IndyCar race was in progress. I must admit, the new IndyCar is damn fine and I'm probably in the minority here. Race might not have been a classic, but this summed up the emotions going on in St. Pete, following the events of last October. Something that was on the ABC pre-race show. Craig (talk)  23:31, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I actually think Vettel was slightly too hasty about closing the move off, and misjudged the distance completely. It's a slight chink in his racecraft that is highly noticeable when he's racing within the pack, not at the front. Grosjean's had a tough start; okay, he's qualified well but he'll find his feet by the European leg of the championship. Besides, he made one hell of a start on Sunday! Sauber are already closing in on last year's total of points, already! Pre-qualifying would be interesting to witness live; having only seen videos of it, it would appear to be hellish on a Thursday/Friday. Alas, there are never going to be 30 cars in Formula One again, I don't think. It was a nice touch on a sombre, yet encouraging weekend for the series in St. Pete. Rubens did alright, but still needs to learn the fuel game. Barber Motorsports Park this weekend, where he might do well. A proper road course, rather than the streets. Craig  (talk)  23:00, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * He does like his cuts...most of his starts from pole have resulted in the Schumacher-esque chop. I remember that most of last season, my father was constantly moaning at the tactics that he was employing on the starts. Then there was the complaints about how far he was clear after one lap...it riles him something terrible. Looking at the grid for the race at Barber tomorrow, there are numerous good drivers deep in the pack; hopefully the race isn't a borefest like last year as Power led every lap...that won't happen tomorrow. Craig  (talk)  21:35, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Here we are...first head-to-head ratings between Sky and BBC. Enjoy. ;) Craig  (talk)  12:51, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Hurst Street
Thanks for the kind words. I tend to think historically, partly just the way I think and partly a consequence of living a neighborhood of brick buildings all constructed circa 1860. I figure a city like Birmingham has a history of neighborhood evolution. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 16:21, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Stiff Upper Lip
Were you aware that I'm in the middle of closing that discussion? Did you read the comment on the move? Vegaswikian (talk) 00:53, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * If there is no primary topic then the dab page should be at the main name space or at a minimum a redirect to the dab page. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:02, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * No case was made for the title being the primary use. Different capitalizations is a sufficient reason on its own to dab a title.  You need to make a clear and convincing case that one of these is really the primary use.  The fact that a primary use was not discussed does support the statement that there is no primary topic.  Also if you believe that there is no consensus here, then reversion to the title before the current one is a valid conclusion to the discussion. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:10, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * if there's no primary topic, why does stiff upper lip still direct to the idiom and not the dab page? Well if you think that the idiom is the primary topic then that redirect makes sense.  Since this was not discussed in the discussion that I closed, it was not changed.  The discussion here concerned the album and there was no case made that it is the primary topic.  At this point, I don't know how to explain this any better to you.  The fact that points were not raised in a discussion is not a reason to overturn the consensus from that discussion.  If you really and truly believe that the album is in fact the primary topic then I'd suggest waiting a while and them asking to have it moved.  However if you do that, you should also mention the previous move history that occurred before this one. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:46, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Note
Delivering petty threats on talk pages while threatening further action if I respond is OK on Wikipedia. Fabricating accusations of name-calling against me without producing any diffs is OK on Wikipedia. Excruciatingly lame incivility in an edit summary after I call you out for breaking a guideline is OK on Wikipedia. Taking the piss out of an editor after he bullied a newbie is worse than bullying a newbie. I got roundly criticised and threatened by a playground clique of editors for whom incivility is just a word they can't spell. Telling someone to fuck off on Wikipedia is encouraged - but it might just depend on who you are. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:41, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * If it's OK for him to tell me to fuck off then why did I get hounded for saying he was acting like an asshole? Hghyux (talk to me)(talk to others) 20:28, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That's the kind of question I'd like answered. There seem to be a lot of people on here who tolerate his disgraceful behaviour, and protect him. He has a fawning little fan club that follow him around - all of them pretentious, uncivil types - and I suspect some other admins are just scared of taking them on. There's even a page to help admins deal with situations like this - User:Beeblebrox/The unblockables. I've seen admins wriggling around, trying to convince themselves that telling someone to fuck off isn't uncivil. "It just means 'go away'" - that kind of thing, while other editors get blocked for far less. You can ban anyone from your talk page though - if someone posts and you want rid of them, tell them clearly that they're not welcome to post on your talk page. If they continue, that can be viewed as harrassment. I doubt that guy will post again anyway. If you come across him again, try not to give him any ammunition to use against you - ask him to leave you alone and he'll either do so, or hang himself by badgering you. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:58, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Well that sucks. Hghyux (talk to me)(talk to others) 21:53, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, it does. Editors like that usually (eventually) get their come-uppance though, when they attack the wrong person. Every editor I've had serious arguments with is now blocked. Don't let it stop you working here though, a-holes are ten a penny around here - I just try to work around them, and take a stab if I see an opportunity. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:57, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Please don't get the wrong idea about my editing though I've initiated investigations against high-profile socks who are now blocked and have also stopped users like this goofball and have helped many others so I'm not really that bad:) Hghyux (talk to me)(talk to others) 22:04, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * For sure, I can see that :) And a few others agree with me - but those with the biggest mouths often shout the loudest. I initially got involved because recently someone wrongly tagged an article I worked on, and I just sent him a note pointing him in the right direction. Then I saw your ANI thread, and why these guys felt the need to belittle and insult you, I don't know. I do hate bullies. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:10, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank You. Hghyux (talk to me)(talk to others) 23:08, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Any time :) Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:11, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Thank you very much!! I appreciate it :D Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:40, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you

 * The project might be better of if he wasn't though. Malleus Fatuorum 23:37, 5 April 2012 (UTC)


 * That's how I feel about you. Bretonbanquet (talk) 12:11, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Blocked again, huh? Don't tell me - they're out to get you, it's a "bad block". Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:05, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Just wanted to let you know that this barnstar is spam. Hghyux (talk to me)(talk to others) 00:57, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I guessed as much - it didn't really ring true. Funny how MF couldn't resist a bit of badly-typed incivility though. Bretonbanquet (talk) 06:58, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Didn't shock me. Hghyux (talk to me)(talk to others) 02:08, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

WikiThanks
In recognition of all the work you’ve done lately! 67.80.64.128 (talk) 22:54, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * And so is this. Hghyux (talk to me)(talk to others) 02:10, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

IP edits
Thanks for reverting all those IP edits. DH85868993 (talk) 03:10, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, hate those dynamic ones; the IP hoppers. 36 reverts today alone. Mental. Craig  (talk)  18:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I got my banhammer out and gave it a bash. Mjroots (talk) 18:39, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Top work! Hopefully he'll get the message, rather than start again with one of his other IPs. Thanks, Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:40, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Can't beat the banhammer, totes. /ghettospeak ;) Craig  (talk)  18:45, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Re: Viewing figures
Quite a disparity isn't it! As you say, it wasn't too ungodly an hour but probably too early for the posh lot with Sky! Spain is the next clash; can't wait to see those figures...on an aside for this weekend's events in Bahrain, Sky News are not allowed to report from the country! So, that'll make for interesting reports on their channel! Craig (talk)  18:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Glad not to have another one of those 8am starts for qualifying/race until October! Well, hopefully the Spanish race isn't dreary like normal! Not going well for them at all. Skeleton crew at best it seems this weekend. Craig  (talk)  18:45, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Never too old for them early starts; if I say I'm into my third decade of getting up for races in the early hours, that just shows you! Will we notice? I think not...their post-race analysis has been average at best, plus I'm in the minority that thinks that Croft's commentary is a bit "lazy" for Formula One. A few good one-liners but that's it... Craig  (talk)  20:40, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Brundle has been slightly disinterested since Malaysia, I think. Apparently he came out with a quote in China "I haven't been this disappointed since I saw Shrek 2..." EH?! Mind you, he plugged Carlin after they gave daddy's son a ride in GP3. Cringeworthy! Craig  (talk)  21:53, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I went BBC in China too, but I read about it in Autosport this week. Revved Up column had something about, in comparison between the two networks. Of the three races this season, it was the best by a bit. Ah good old Susie, a Scot I can slate. Handy in single-seaters, utterly shite in DTM. Six seasons, 61 races and just two points-finishes. Holy crap...wonder who'd win that marital battle on the track... Craig  (talk)  22:00, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sure his bank balance is loving it. China was a 9 for me; the only thing that stopped it being a maximum was the lack of action at the front thanks to N. Rosberg. Australia and Malaysia were 8s for reference. 8.3 average so far! Toto's career stalled a bit, but still pretty handy. Won Dubai 24 Hours, class winner in FIA GTs. Looks a little better than Susie's [vital] statistics. Toto's also a dab hand in VLN races, them long-distance events at the 'Ring. Male over female there, I feel. Yeah, there wasn't much of them in either FP3 or qualifying today...how very surprising... Craig  (talk)  22:20, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I just can't predict a winner for tomorrow's race. Should be another humdinger. Haha, Milka...IndyCar is a better place without her. Craig  (talk)  23:43, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Biographies of living persons
Feel free to duplicate this invite on the pages of others who have commented, for or against. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:18, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Check this out
Hey- after our jokes about how we could assemble phony "reliable sources" last year-- I thought this, which is real might interest you! See Wikipedia Signpost/2012-04-16/Paid editing. Thought-provoking. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 00:55, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

FYI
Sockpuppet investigations/Lucy-marie.  Pyrop e  16:31, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Fighting with vandalism
What really pisses me off about this kind of thing is that we currently have every race article for the past 7 or 8 years being vandalised by floating IPs on a daily basis, and it's left to three of us to fix it

I could be of some help with this. My English may not be perfect, but it stops me from writing articles, not from reverting them. Could you please point me to an instrument that allows you to watch every race article, if there are any? Ximaera (talk) 09:19, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Phil Rudd
Look up Lithuanian surnames. How many of them end with a "uis"?

Actually, it's supposed to be Rudzevicius. Google that name (+ "Lithuania") and report the results. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.82.99.158 (talk) 22:08, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Where the hell did you get that he's Lithuanian then? If that's his last name, then he's not Lithuanian at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.82.99.158 (talk) 04:08, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Kevin?
Sorry to do this to you, but it seems that no sooner is one sockpuppet banished to the toybox-of-no-return than another rears its hosiery head. I'm not entirely sure, but User:Me12356 has all the hallmarks of our old edit summary-shunning friend. Could you take a look and see what you think? Cheers.  Pyrop e  17:36, 26 April 2012 (UTC)


 * No, I don't think the IPs are anything to do with it. In some cases those editors actually reinstate elements removed by Me12356. The IP editors may well all be the same person but they don't feel like Me12356. Your points about old drivers, results and F2 races are well made, but there is still something about the tenacity, obstinacy, lack of judgement, almost complete lack of edit summaries, and inability to discuss that reeks of the same person. Also, and an intriguing thing I noticed about Kevin, their English gets noticeably better when they are a bit wound up. I still have nothing definite, but I'm keeping a watching brief.  Pyrop e  15:44, 27 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Although, interestingly, they just edited from User:94.170.212.160, which is apparently in Wigan, Lancs. Perhaps it is a new person after all. Wait and see, I suppose.  Pyrop e  15:49, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

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Gresley F.C.
Hey, yeah I think you're right :) They'll likely be put into the Northern Premier League Division One South so I'll add them to the new season article I started. I've been making use of this link to see a possible permutation of results.

By the way, have you seen the discussion on WikiProject Football that seems to be about creating a bot to convert all football season table templates into wikitables? Here. The discussion seems to have been going on a while but I've only just noticed it. I can see the need to reduce the number of templates and make it more streamlined but I'm worried it may make the creation of new season articles and the updating of current seasons much more difficult...  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  14:49, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah the current seasons are the ones I'm most concerned about. It's being done with good interntions but could lead to a doubling of the amount of info that needs to be changed/added each match day. Thanks for the good wishes :) I was at the Chorley game and will definately be cheering them on in Bradford next week! Hopefully be at the same level as Truro next season.  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  16:19, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * No worries with the revert :) Yeah the game was great, hopefully will be the same against Bradford. We've beaten them 5–2 twice this season so hopefully it's not our turn to lose... The N/S split definately makes it easier for away trips yeah. Though i'd guess the Truro to Dover journey would be difficult! I'm still trying to work out how Gloucester can be considered North. Blue Square North (of the M25) more like!  Del ♉ sion 23  (talk)  16:59, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Hope we can add ourselves to the list of quality northern sides :D In the meantime here's a link to the goals against Chorley, presented by our not-biased-at-all commentary team Video. Good work with the new Southern League article. Can't believe it's that time of the year again.  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  21:10, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Not at all :) I have a knack for maps on wiki so didn't take too long to do. Could only be improved if someone made a Southern England location map which could cover the whole of the area covered by the Southern League, as is the case with the NPL maps. This would free up space and make them easier to read. I may have a go later this evening. For now I've got this Manchester derby thing distracting me and it ain't going well...!  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  20:00, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Good spot, the grey is usually used for teams that have folded. I'll remove the R for relegation though and add a note saying they resigned to the Northern Football League.  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  23:46, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Odubajo
You mean a tendency by me, or editors in general, to make edits that don't really need to be made? The amendments I made are pretty commonplace among most English football bios. There aren't many that say "professional" after the nationality (because it's pretty obvious they are, or else there's very little of them having a WP bio in the first place). And I can't say I've ever seen WP:YEAR take quite so literally when applied to football infoboxes, I can't think of any other instances off the top of my head where the second year is shortened. Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 12:08, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Rochdale Sex Traffickers Gang
Is there a way for me to assist people in discovering this article, other than emblazoning it across your talk page?<small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">' Ankh '. Morpork  19:42, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Team titles and links
I was under the impression that it had been agreed upon in WP:F1 that full team titles should have a singular link to the team, and that specific sponsors should not be linked to? Therefore Ethiad Aldar Spyker F1 Team should be one big link to Spyker F1, and not three seperate links to cover all the sponsors? The359 ( Talk ) 20:35, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe it was due to some team names, and specifically Grand Prix names, being broken up by where the sponsors were placed. For instance, Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team would have a link to Mercedes in F1 at the start, a link to a sponsor, then another link to Mercedes in F1.  Same with the Gran Premio Santander d'Italia.  The359  ( Talk ) 21:04, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't recall specifically where it occured. It's possible it was even on one of the season pages, specifically 2011 or 2012.  I know it was a rather recent change which is why it may not have been in use on earlier season articles.  The359  ( Talk ) 21:22, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

F1 circuit maps
Hey, Breton

I saw your comments on bold constructor maps at WP:F1, and I have to say, I genuinely believe there are bigger issues with the Formula 1 pages, like the inconsistent and incomplete circuit maps. I think that this is an issue that needs to be addressed, but I'm hopeless when it comes to graphics programs so in order to make the maps uniform, I'd need some help with it. I'm wondeirng if you know how to draw up maps yourself, or if you know of anyone who does. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 04:11, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

What's up?
Hi there. I just noticed this. I don't edit as much as I used to, and don't follow the goings-on of WP:F1 as much either, but I hope this doesn't mean that you're leaving, as your work here is much appreciated. Hope to see you back editing soon,-- Midgrid  (talk)  23:27, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That's a shame, but I'm glad you're sticking around in a more "unofficial" capacity. :) -- Midgrid  (talk)  22:58, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Gosh, the newcomers to the project know very little about the regulations of how Formula One works. [Yeah, I know I'm following on from this point, but it's along the same lines]. Us old-timers are becoming less tolerant of these changes, and no wonder we're all drifting away from these articles! Take the Schumacher "no-pole"; people are not realising that pole position really isn't awarded until the starting grid is published! I've already used up 3RR on his page, trying to rectify it...but I wholly understand why you're no longer a member...many will follow I feel. Craig (talk)  14:11, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Absolutely spot on; the only things I seem to do for the project any more is rectify mistakes in spelling, the laps template and the newsletter. That's enough for me. Current drivers articles are no-go areas for results due to the bit part things that IP users [mainly] do, to mess up the systematic patterns that us old-dogs [sorry to keep stressing that. ;)] always had when we were updating the articles. I think we'd be safe in expanding a past driver from decades ago; no way of the newbies going that far back. A well-deserved five-place grid drop to boot. Just means he has to wait for his 69er. We can just focus on our other main projects; yours Football, and my Cycling...a lot of effort going into the 2012 Giro d'Italia sub-pages. People not clued up on cycling would totally be able to follow it... ;) Craig  (talk)  14:42, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 19 minutes it took for the Schumacher page to be changed. Urgh. Craig  (talk)  14:42, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Has that IP-hopper not been stopped yet?! Sake...Nice to see the powers that be turning a blind eye to such shenanigans... I've been doing the MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 rider results boxes like you've been doing with the F1 driver articles...If someone gets it wrong or does bit-part, it gets reverted as a whole! Not a nice attitude to take up I know, but that's the best way to get everything done accurately. With the Giro and all the Grand Tours for that matter being 21 stages long...the race gets split into two articles detailing each half of the race. That way, we can write two fairly decent articles for the price of one. :) What it means is that people can follow it, as if they were cycling fans and know all the stuff about it! Ah yes, I've seen those articles...I do like looking at the myriad of leagues below the Football League. I see that Robertson was born in Clarkston; just ten minutes up the road from where I live! Maldonado's penalty was one too. Craig  (talk)  15:56, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, I've noticed the guess at the results. Laughable, really. Bit like those not bothering to do anything about it! Yeah; I'm awaiting the articles starting to slip a bit due to our non-involvements. I've done most of the 2012 UCI World Tour articles this year, and they're nearly all rated C or better. If only the F1 pages could match that. ;) The most taxing thing about it is all the articles that need updated if someone dopes up! Yeah, I've read many newspaper clippings about the explosion; made a bit of focus once again last year, as it was the 40th anniversary of the disaster. There was also this helicopter crash in 1990 just up the road from me, as well. The things you don't know about until you grow older. Let's hope when Maldonado charges up the order, we don't have any of this or this. Craig  (talk)  16:55, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Newer people are writing on the articles in a tense that is far too journalistic for on here, I feel. Lack of knowledge as well. I can't imagine someone else picking all the results up; it'll be an array of users doing bit-parts...as far as I'm concerned, I'll stick to the MotoGP ones as you get less hassle! Dreaming indeed. I remember when I got Stefan Bellof up to a C, it took a month-and-a-half to get the right amount of stuff down. Not the best-known driver here of course, and he may not have had the best results in Formula One, but what a phenomenal talent he was. Of recent racing drivers outside of Formula One, Tom Dillmann is up to C and Hannes van Asseldonk is at a B...they could've been deleted before I got my hands on them; revision history it...I'm sure you wouldn't disagree! Yeah; it was headline news here, but I doubt it was down south somehow. Yeah GP2/GP3 Fri/Sat and Formula Renault 3.5/Porsche Supercup (hopefully) tomorrow; Sam Bird on pole for the 3.5 race, and Sean Edwards likewise for the Porsches. Apparently, Daly clipped the wing off but I didn't see the race; just saw it pop up on my Twitter feed. Will Buller flipped at the start as well! Mental. Craig  (talk)  17:43, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I knew it had happened before, but I couldn't remember when it happened until I checked it up. 2005 in Italy; Kimi Räikkönen set the fastest time, but it was Juan Pablo Montoya's pole position. Bellof and 6:11 around the Nordschleife...just a ridiculous time. But yeah, each race has been a minimum 8/10 so far, so hopefully another...but no red flag to change tyres...Vettel's lucky-as-hell win. Craig  (talk)  18:31, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Famously the race of no retirements, as I discovered once again! A Ferrari drive on the cards in 1986...oh, what might have been...six in six...it'd be a first; and with Webber and Hamilton near the front, it hopefully will happen. Unpredictability = win. Craig  (talk)  18:46, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * There's been 5 so far, and Hamilton, Webber, Schumacher, Grosjean and Raikkonen could all theoretically win one. Ten would be the absolute maximum but. Craig  (talk)  02:34, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

I can sympathise entirely. Too many people with only a passing understanding of the sport, egged on by TV commentators and mickey mouse journalists that give incorrect information. If I had my way IP editors would be banned from Wikipedia entirely, but I realise this opinion is in the minority. Glad you haven't disappeared entirely though; we have too few people here that can string sentences together and know what the difference is between facts and the voices in their heads. Chin up and hope to see you in the shadows for a while to come yet.  Pyrop e  22:33, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Definitely second those sentiments above; likewise I would love to see IP users gone from here, but it probably is unlikely... IP-hopper is becoming untenable... Craig  (talk)  22:01, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
Akdrummer75 (talk) 04:51, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry
Sorry I thought they would take the result as such, where he is at the top with a note alluding to the penalty, because in comparison to Hamilton Schumacher wasn´t eliminated from qualifying as a whole. So my equation was that he won qualifying fair and square, he would be given the 69th pole for his career results and then dumped 5 places. But ok, my bad — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.119.20.50 (talk) 15:56, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

2012–13 Allocations
Hey, apologies for the late reply, I've been on holiday. Just my luck that the FA decided to release the allocations while I was away! I managed to sort out the tables via an IP connection though. Looks like Retford have been denied promotion as you suspected so it all checks out. King's Lynn have played everywhere, I think they're the only club that have played in the Southern, Isthmian and Northern Premier Leagues. Guess the allocations will be confirmed after the league AGMs in the next month or so.  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  16:25, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
The Bushranger One ping only 02:21, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeoman Credit Racing
Yes there certainly is. Yeoman Credit Racing is a disambiguation page so shows in Dabsolver. Reg Parnell Racing was Yeoman Credit Racing from 1960-63. British Racing Partnership were Yeoman in 1959-60. Edinburgh  Wanderer  13:56, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thats the way it currently is. I didn't create that as a dab page just clearing the links. I actually think it should be a dab page as British Racing Partnership does cover it and has a link to that page explaining the history so should Reg Parnell Racing. Im not bothered but its either a dab page or it isn't. Edinburgh  Wanderer  14:02, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Its been a dab page since 2007. Edinburgh  Wanderer  14:03, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think it should be taken off as a dab page. Thats the fault of the other articles it clearly needs to be a dab due to two teams using the name. Things can link intentionally to it without it showing as a mistaken link by using Yeoman Credit Racing (disambiguation). These articles however i feel should link to the main teams pages, the only ones that i feel should link intentionally are the two teams themselves. If you want to disam then probably needs taken to talk page. Edinburgh   Wanderer  14:15, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no specific interest other than if it is a disam page then really it should link away and only the parent articles need to link to it. If it changes from a disam page then that is fine as links will be gone. But i don't think we should change it without input given the length of time it has been that and never caused an issue. if others think it shouldn't be then i have no objection. Edinburgh  Wanderer  14:28, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

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WP:YEAR
Hi. It's common to put full years in footballers infoboxes, as they show from what year they joined from until when they left. I can't even think of an example where it wouldn't. Rather than seasons, it's just so happens Bradley Gray has left after less than a year from each club. Therefore, I don't think WP:YEAR is really relevant in this case. Cheers, --Jimbo[online] 20:48, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Don't those rules only apply to prose text? Otherwise, there'll have to be a major overhaul of every football article on Wikipedia. --Jimbo[online] 21:00, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've no idea why, I've noticed rugby and other sport articles use the WP:YEAR format though. I'll create a discussion over at WT:FOOTY to see if there's a reason why. --Jimbo[online] 21:07, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Manfred Winkelhock
Hello. I apologize for the mistake I made with the disqualification of Manfred Winkelhock. I will check such stats before I edit again. Thanks for putting it right. Jahn1234567890 (talk) 13:52, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Flags in infoboxes
On Hideki Noda, you said the flag in infobox is not prohibited and restored it. Would you care to show me the policy covering this so I learn it for the next time? If so, it would contradict WP:INFOBOXFLAG which specifically says: "Avoid flag icons in infoboxes-- Generally, flag icons should not be used in infoboxes, even when there is a "country", "nationality" or equivalent field: they are unnecessarily distracting and give undue prominence to one field among many." As far as I know he is representing himself and his team, not his country as this is not the Olympics or FIFA World Cup for example. If this is allowed in race car driver articles, then we need to get consensus and amend the MOSFLAG policy, else the flag should be removed from his infobox -- Alexf(talk) 12:40, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

A *gift*
Take a look on your article for Brian Robertson. The previous one was below par, so I requested --and received one for the infobox and one for the guitar section. Only problem I see is that his watermarks need removing and I don't know how. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 07:00, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, we were fortunate with these. They come from the same photographer who provided the photo of Brian Downey-- that black and white one which Downey himself objected to for "making him look old". I suppose he was right, too, given the newer ones, but these two are good, unlike the other one for Robertson. Someone left a note back in recent archives of my talk page, who said he was part of a group that do that cleanup stuff with photos, but nothing ever came from it. Still, I like these, which are recent, and now would like to find one of him young which is proving difficult. Ah well, happy daze. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 16:09, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Is this the right guy?
Hey Bro, have you ever heard of a band called Trip Shakespeare? One of the musicians who played at the 25th anniversary "Vibe for Philo" (the same one last year from which Brian Robertson also played) is named Matt Wilson. The photographer changed the license for one of Wilson to upload using a Creative Commons one like that of Robbo, but I was thinking-- that's a common name, and to upload the photo, I want to be sure it's the same person. This is the one: Yes? I do not want to screw this up. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 22:05, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think uploading the wrong Matt Wilson is a bad idea, so I'll leave it alone. The photographer is a pro and is being kind. Don't want to take advantage of that, or the conceiveable dead weight into Commons. It has always been my practice to only upload photos we need. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 11:13, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure Rashid Rauf is dead?
His body hasn't been found. His family insists he's alive. As for proof he's alive, here you go.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/04/al_qaeda_operative_r_1.php

--Zhoban (talk) 13:13, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Email
You have email! Please do read it. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 10:49, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

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Eversley and California
Hey, thanks for pointing that one out, I've uploaded the cut-off version, it's the club's fault! Only one club all the way down to level 10 with no badge now... London Bari F.C., but seeing as they're a new club that hasn't even set up its own website yet, maybe in a few months that project on the Non-league task force can be wrapped up! Seen you've been going through all the Western League seasons, tiring stuff I know as I've been going through the Southern and Isthmian leagues. Now all the seasons have three league tables each so it's getting harder to tick that project off the list! Cheers  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  15:20, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Haha, yeah, got through the early Isthmian seasons like a knife through butter as there was only 1 table of about 10 teams, now it's 3 tables of 22 O_O Yeah, the defunct teams will be near impossible to get the badges for (if they even had them!). I've also noticed some redlink teams on my way through the Isthmian and Southern leagues (West Norwood, New Crusaders, and Guildford & Dorking United a brief merger between Dorking and Guildford City. May just make that a disambig page.  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  15:50, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Sockpuppets
Hey Breton,

I'm hoping this is just me, but I'm beginning to suspect Eff Won might be a sockpuppet of Lucy-marie. Based on the conversation over at the 2012 season talk page, I'm seeing a lot in common with what Lucy-marie used to do: quibbling over minor points, driving the conversation in circles and ignoring the points other users make, only to restate her request to have things explained to her. It's very, very similar to what she did back in April as Jimjames1989 with the status of the bold P in results tables, and while we have since removed the bold P after qualifying, justlook at the way the conversation goes around in circles, with Lucy dragging things out and qubbling when she isn't getting her way. I suspect that she may be back as Eff Won and is trying to get the calendar changed.

I thought I'd run this past you since you've encountered her before, rather than going straight to sockpuppet invetigations. Please tell me I'm just being paranoid. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:07, 2 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll keep an eye on the 2012 season page. I've encountered Lucy in the past, and when she doesn't get her way, she gets disruptive. The next step is to go into the page and make the changes that she thinks are necessary and will try to force them through by way of edit warring.


 * I've just managed to provoke a response from Eff Won when I chanllenged him/her on why he/she keeps forcing the conversation around in circles. I got a response that basically amounts to "if you don't acknowledge that my ideas are good, then you clearly don't know what you're talking about" which sounds a lot like Lucy. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:17, 2 September 2012 (UTC)


 * And Eff Won is now sitting on the talk page and calling our arguments against his/her inclusions "excuses [to not include them]". The old Moscow Rules spring to mind - once is an accident and twice is a coincidence, but three times is a pattern. Eff Won is definately displaying Lucy-ish behaviours now. I'm very curious as to what his/her response to your latest comment will be. I'm guessing it will be either a parthian shot before he/she hits the article proper, or something designed to marginalise your comments.


 * I also noticed that Eff Won is talking about "giving the reader all the facts" over at the discussion on where or not to add a ban cell to the results key template. Is it just me, or is carrying the argument into a new talk page another symptom of acute Lucyism? Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:28, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

I think we may have just seen the opening salvo: this edit, which removes all of the "Report" entries in the 2012 results section because they redirect back to the 2012 season page. I seem to recall that Lucy liked to quote Wikipedia policy out-of context to justify her disruptive edits and try to force her edits through. Eff Won has also done this twice, merging the quote boxes in the race summaries subsection into the text of the subsection, and then claiming that it needs to go to consensus on the talk page - although this is more-consistent with de Facto, who liked to make changes that were disruptive and then insist that consensus was needed to revert them back (but I always did suspect that de Facto was another Lucy account).

I think we've seen enough from Eff Won to consider taking this to an authority. I believe that Eff Won's last few edits are a taste of things to come, which means lots of disruptions. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 08:35, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Eff Won is definitely somebody. Hot money is on Lucy, but I haven't ruled out De Facto either. De Facto seems to have disappeared, and I don't believe someone like that would just walk away from Wikipedia. I'm going to ask Pyrope what he thinks, maybe he has an idea. Bretonbanquet (talk) 16:17, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind my barging in like this, but I'm also fairly sure Me1256, HRT F1 Team and Daniels Renault Sport are the same person. Same bizarre, random, edit summary-less editing that just switches things around a bit and makes 'em a little bit worse. — Jon C.  ॐ  08:47, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Not at all, the more the merrier :) Funny you should say that, because Pyrope thought that Me12356 was User:Kevintjeerdsma1996. I'm not sure because Kevin edits these days (block-evading) as Jahn1234567890. HRT F1 Team is at least blocked, but I'm sure he's come back as something else, quite possibly Daniels Renault Sport - HRT was blocked on 26 August, and DRS appeared on 27 August. Me12356 is a Renault obsessive though, so they could indeed be the same person. I think there's a lot of sockpuppetry among editors of F1 articles. Bretonbanquet (talk) 16:15, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

I was going to ask Prisonermonkeys after seeing him deal with Eff Won, but it seems the parties here ;) I do believe Eff Won is DeFacto reappearing again, the discussion style on Talk:2012 Formula One season is identical to what he was doing on the Wikiproject talk page - his very brusque manner, the refusal to accept defeat and starting a new section on the same topic whenever the discussion got too against the proposal. The fact that Eff Won appears to know about about the guidelines only adds suspicion for a new user. Definitely worth following up.

And yes I also thought Daniels Renault Sport was another sock, I just couldn't place it. Me12356 fits perfectly - although that account is no longer blocked. We've got a serious problem with a few people here. QueenCake (talk) 20:46, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * This is either Lucy or De Facto - no doubt about that. Instantly appearing armed with knowledge of policies and guidelines, heading straight for an F1 article and trying to push his/her weight around... it's just a matter of figuring out which of them this is and getting them blocked. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:02, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm starting to wonder if BenjF1 is actually De Facto - talk about flogging a dead horse. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:03, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Bretonbanquet we actually got an edit conflict trying to say the same thing there! BenjF1 is almost certainly a sock, that was DeFacto's pet topic alright. QueenCake (talk) 21:06, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Eff Won's latest comment seals it for me as Lucy, that's a done deal. I'm sure that Benj is a sock, and that makes two of us with the same De Facto hunch... Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:13, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'm even coming round to Prisonermonkeys view that DeFacto and Lucy are the same person, but given how established both accounts were before they were banned, that suggests they've been involved in some serious sockpupperty. I've never been involved reporting it though, how do we get some attention to this? QueenCake (talk) 21:21, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure De Facto and Lucy are the same person, though it's possible. De Facto didn't usually lose his cool, whereas Lucy got riled up and made mistakes. I'll make the SPI report for Eff Won once I'm done with the football results ;) It's a bit of a drag to do, but it's worth it. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:28, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmm, a good point there. Their styles are certainly similar though. Cheers in advance for making the report, before Lucy I've only seen it before in vandal fighting where an admin did the work before a ban ;) QueenCake (talk) 21:47, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It's here - Sockpuppet investigations/Lucy-marie - please have your say there to add another voice to the claim. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:36, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've left my comments there. It seems there's quite the backlog dealing with Socks however :/. Thanks for starting it. QueenCake (talk) 20:36, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've never seen a backlog that long - might take a little while. Oh joy. Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:52, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * De Facto didn't usually lose his cool, whereas Lucy got riled up and made mistakes.

In that case, I suggest you head over to the Lotus E20 talk page, where de Facto really made a pain of himself, and displayed some very Lucy-like behaviours. I first ran into Lucy in 2010, when she was trying to get the just-created 2012 season page banned. At the time, most of the article's notability revolved around the presence of the newly-signed USGP contract for a race in Austin. Lucy insisted that despite the contract and despite dozens of people involved confirming that the race would go ahead, there was a chance that the race would not go ahead at all, and therefore all mentions of the USGP should be removed from the article. When I asked her about it, she said that she had higher standards than Wikipedia when it came to adding content based on future events. I'd like to see her face on November 16, when the cars first take to the Circuit of the Americas.

The problems with de Facto on the Lotus E20 started when the name of the chassis was announced. De Facto insisted that the page needed to have a paragraph detailing why it was called the E20 (compared to pages like the Ferrari F150 Italia, which only had a sentence explaining its name), even though most of his edits only repeated what had already been said. He also edited the section on the reactive ride height system because he insisted that we had no way of proving the system existed in the first place, much less that it had been developed by Lotus, put on the E20, or that the FIA had told them to take it off. He was clearly trying to write the page to imply that Lotus had simply had a brilliant idea that had been rejected because of someone else's actions, and his style of writing was almost exclusively written in weasel words. When he didn't get his way, he started edit-warring, deliberately running the discussion off-topic and restating the topic to try and gain a new consensus, quoting Wikipedia policies out of context to justify his edits, and accusing me of intentionally obscuring "the facts". He displayed several behaviours common with Lucy, and while he did a few new things (like reaching beyond the Formula 1 pages) and didn't show some of Lucy's behaviours (he never called my counter-arguments "excuses"), it was enough to convince me that Lucy and de Facto were one and the same. But then de Facto got banned, so there was no need to do anything more about it. I'd put it out of my mind until Eff Won emerged, and started displaying behaviours symptomatic of both Lucy and de Facto. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 06:21, 5 September 2012 (UTC)


 * You make some good points there, maybe I should have said "De Facto didn't usually lose his cool with me" haha... It could well be that there's some kind of relationship between Lucy and De Facto, but I think one of Lucy's socks and De Facto were operating at the same time, which might put a question mark over the idea. Even so, it shouldn't matter to SPI which sockpuppet is operating Eff Won - admins should just be concerned that there's sockpuppetry going on, which is surely obvious to anyone, and put the block in place. I wonder if other fields on Wikipedia attract so many obsessives and circus freaks as F1 does. Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:52, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Even if Eff Won is by some chance neither Lucy nor De Facto, he behaviour alone has been enough to justify a ban. See his reaction to The359 imploring him to think before he acts, and this contribution as evidence. If this is Lucy, I think we may even have a case to take to long-term abuse. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 05:42, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * If I had one, I'd stake my house on Eff Won being one of the two. I'm starting to think it's probably De Facto now - this guy shares an incredible egocentricity with De Facto, the like of which is rare enough to make me think it's the same person. Even so, it's likely enough to be Lucy to get him blocked as a sock of Lucy, even if he's actually not. The evidence is still pretty strong. Plus as you say, in the unlikely event he doesn't get blocked as a sock, he'll get blocked anyway for all the same reasons De Facto was blocked. I agree with you about WP:LONG too. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:28, 6 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, I think we should wait until the outcome of the SPI before doing anything. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:25, 7 September 2012 (UTC)


 * In the meantime, here is a draft of a write-up for an entry over at long-term abuse. This is mostly based on what I have seen and experienced first-hand with Lucy. Feel free to edit accordingly. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 12:05, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I wasn't all that familiar with WP:LONG, but I see that it's a pretty helpful resource. What you've done so far is pretty much on the button, as far as I can see. Once this SPI is sorted out, and assuming it's found to be Lucy, then I think this is a good idea. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:40, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

How long do SPIs generally take to finish? I'd like to see the back of Eff Won and his/her crap. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:39, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Table edits
All the matches finished at 21:39 so was shamefully 1 minute late - couldn't care less if i update it first as long as someone does it which is not always the case. Arthur7171 (talk) 20:53, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Jerome d'Ambrosio
His participation isn't a fact. Before the weekend many things can happen, for example an illnes o injury.
 * Yeah, and we might all be wiped out by aliens. D'Ambrosio is confirmed by Lotus, and that's all that we need to care about. Whether he's in the drivers table or not is more or less irrelevant right at this very moment anyway. And sign your comments, Phósphoros, it's the only way to enlightenment. Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:54, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Malarious
Thanks for the heads up - his behaviour has troubled me for some time and that edit was the last straw - blocked for a week. GiantSnowman 13:02, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I don't have high hopes to be honest, this is block #3, and the last one was only back in May... GiantSnowman 13:09, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
— Berean Hunter   (talk)  20:18, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Flags and Same-sex marriage legislation around the world
Could you give your opinion here? 70.253.91.210 (talk) 07:44, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Behind the Music
Howdy Brah-- did you know that Thin Lizzy is mentioned in that Wikipedia music documentry article called Behind the Music? I only gave it a seconddidn't look too close, but maybe there's info with a reference for the Thin Lizzy article. Just an FYI. :) --Leahtwosaints (talk) 08:21, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

(Everything I Do) Is Reverted by You
No, I'm not going to sing a reworded version of the Bryan Adams classic to you, I wouldn't subject you to that ordeal, I just wanted to ask you for a bit of space here.

I feel that every move I make is being observed and then summarily reverted on sight. I am still finding my feet, I've read through heaps of guidelines and policies so know, in broad terms at least, what's allowed and what isn't. I'm making small changes which do not remove anything and generally add a little something (in my opinion, at least). You don't need to be suspicious of my motives, I'm not going to vandalise anything, or even make any drastic changes. At least discuss rather than revert, in the first instance, and let us see if we can agree an amicable compromise, rather than playing this silly game. I'm sure you don't realise how demoralising it is, and I'm sure that you don't have any underhand motives either, but it almost feels like you are trying to break my spirit, or are hoping to provoke me to overreact for some reason. I'm sure you don't think all the F1 articles are perfect, and all I want to do is make a difference, even if its only a tiny one in the grand scheme. Please trust me with these articles, for a few days at least. There is always the 'undo' button if, after giving me a fair chance, I make a right mess. Eff Won (talk) 21:26, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * It really doesn't work like that. You asked a bunch of questions on the Project page about changes you want to make, and that's the best way to do it. Your changes to the lead sentence were not small changes. Any change to the lead sentence of an article is a fundamental change. Not only that, all race articles start in the same way, and a change to one is potentially a change to hundreds. We're not going to change that convention at the drop of a hat when there is so much other work to do. I'm not playing a game of any sort, this is how Wikipedia works. If you were to look at how I edit, you'll see that I (and most other experienced editors) work in this way all the time. In fact, many edits get reverted a lot more harshly than I've reverted yours. I have rollback, for example, which is a very perfunctory way of reverting while implying, "Your edit was shit", and I haven't used it on you. You must shake off this idea that people are out to get you, and perhaps realise that someone coming in and making trivial changes which don't improve the articles, or breaking long-established conventions, is actually pretty irritating. It is especially so when we have to spend the next few days having to justify what we're doing and have to deal with accusations of bad faith etc. This is why your edits are watched so carefully - you made such a unique fuss when you were reverted, that now everyone has you marked down for attention. No, the articles aren't perfect, but you need to work in areas where problems actually exist rather than trying to make unnecessary changes to sections which are fine as they are. You might also consider 'adding something, rather than just changing something. Giving you time and space to work on articles isn't going to work, because it would require all other editors to give you that time, and that cannot be done. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:39, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your candid response. It seems a little too regimented and too inflexible to have them all starting in exactly the same way, and means, as you say, that you can't improve any of them without having to change all of them. A bit of a limitation really, ah well. They could do with links to their parent GP articles though, and without it being in the bold bit (also in that doc you referred me to, at WP:CONTEXTLINK). At least you didn't use your "Your edit was shit" tool, I should feel flattered I suppose ;-) Are you going to comment on my Talk:2012 Formula One season comments about the modest improvements I have suggested for the summary of the Italian GP in the 2012 season article? I would really appreciate a bit of moral support there, or at least a considered reason to drop the ideas. Eff Won (talk) 22:02, 12 September 2012 (UTC)


 * It's for simplicity's sake, mostly. Many people who read these articles don't know anything about F1, so it has to be simple for them. I think many editors would agree with me that the generic lead sentence needs no improvement as it fulfils its function very well, but if you want to test the waters at WT:F1, then that's your choice. I was aware of the guideline which discourages bold links, but I personally don't mind them. Regarding the season reports, they are not something I ever work on, because I don't think they should be there at all. We have race report articles to describe the races, and the report sections of the season articles are far too long, in my opinion. I wouldn't particularly object to the changes you want to make, but as a non-supporter of the sections as a whole, it's not really fair for me to stick my nose into their construction. It's for the people who write those things to yay or nay your ideas. Plus it might be better that I don't comment on everything you do, because that's not really a great idea. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:14, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

ANI
Hello. There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Blackmane (talk) 10:37, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Opinion requested
Since I know that you edit the areas in question, I would like to point you to a open RfC that I think your opinion would be helpful   Thanx   Mlpearc  ( powwow ) 17:28, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

dab?
One of your edit summaries was just "dab". What's that then? Eff Won (talk) 21:36, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * That would be WP:DAB, or disambiguation, something that's required when you link to a dab page, as you did. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:40, 16 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I see. I hadn't realised I'd done that. Thanks. Eff Won (talk) 21:44, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Question about English football league editing
Sorry to disturb you, but could you tell me, if I can edit certain English football leagues more frequently so that you would have a little less to do and could concentrate on other things a little more? Catgamer (talk) 18:55, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I have a question, how do you create these results grids, do you have a good template for that?Catgamer (talk) 20:26, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem is that if I copy and paste it, then I do not get the teams in the way you have written them in e.g. I have wriiten this, but it just doesn't show me the page like you have yours. How can you just write in the teams names without any link to the actual team name?Catgamer (talk) 20:37, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Do you know where my mistake is, how can I just get the table as yours, and the season table as well?


 * Sorry, but the main question for me is, how do you create the links to the teams when you just write

like in the Combined Counties league? Thanks for your help and please do not be angry with my spamming on your talk page.(please look in the edit page of this then you will see what I mean)Catgamer (talk) 20:56, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I have created the 2012–13 Kent Football League now, so could you help me in correcting my mistakes I have done or help me to improve the page? Thanks for your help.Catgamer (talk) 23:44, 1 September 2012 (UTC)


 * But do you know how I can create these templates for the teams as well?Catgamer (talk) 07:00, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
 * And if it is no problem for you could you create the templates for Level 10 Kent and for the 2012–13 Eastern Counties Football League as well or could you explain to me how I can create them alone? Thanks for your huge helpCatgamer (talk) 09:11, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Hey, I've just seen the new season articles by Catgamer mentioned in this convo and was wondering what your opinion is on the 2012–13 Midland Football Alliance and 2012–13 Kent Football League articles. They seem to be covering levels 9–10 which i think is good, but the articles (and the article titles specifically) seem to ignore the fact that they overlap two or three different league systems. The Kent League and Invicta League are two seperate leagues, unlike NCEFL Prem and Div 1 etc. and it gets even more complicated in the Midlands. I'm wondering if in fact these articles should be split into their respective leagues, i.e. 2012–13 Kent Invicta Football League.  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  18:28, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I've split the Kent leagues. The midlands ones are particularly confusing. Midlands Combination and West Midlands (Regional) should in effect be in their own articles. However, their league systems continue into level 11–12. In fact, the Spartan South Midlands leagues actually go down to level 11, but this isn't in the season article. I agree with you that we shouldn't go below level 10, but it's almost like inviting it to happen if we split the midlands one. I'm almost tempted to rename it something like 2012–13 Midlands leagues, but that seems very vague... It also doesn't stop someone creating a table for Spartan South Division Two. And I know what you mean about Wikiproject Football, it's what happened last time I asked about football club logos.  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  19:45, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I think a rename to a sensible title would be the best option. Although I've just remembered (horror of horrors) about the East Midlands Counties Football League... It feeds both the Midlands Alliance and the NCEFL Premier. That's the only one missing from 9–10 right now. I'm tempted to just forget about that one for now, as Catgamer has missed it anywho. Do you want to do the renaming and message to Catgamer about the rename or shall I?  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  20:06, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * True. I've gone back and done all the NWCFL ones. You're going back and doing the Western League ones (albeit yours is the tougher task due to the age of the league!). I doubt many people will traverse back through all the past NL, KL or SCL etc. Maybe there will be an avid fan of those leagues somewhere. It's taking long enough to get all the Isthmian and Southern League seasons done though. I'll give the renaming a go and see what happens I guess. Cheers  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  23:31, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah the Northern League is one of the oldest leagues in the world, so that would take a long time to complete. But hey, there's no time limit. It'll get done one year! Southern league will be finished relatively soon. Isthmian maybe in about 6 months or so, as will Westen League the way you're going through them.  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  10:47, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Good luck :) By the way, good idea with adding the potential promotion place to the Isthmian feeder leagues. Have you noticed that the guy who wrote the source you used actually used an image that I created, but without any attribution? :O At least it's getting used...! Haha  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  23:52, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback
– Connormah (talk) 00:58, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Sockpuppets
Hi, given that you know the UK, how easy is it for someone in the UK to use an alternative Dutch ISP? This and this seem similar, but are in UK and Holland. Impossible to be the same? Thanks. History2007 (talk) 00:04, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

AC/DC
Mlpearc ( powwow ) 18:14, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

FYI, please be careful adding more. Please see this discussion before adding new editnotices. Mlpearc ( powwow ) 18:51, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Reviews in album infoboxes
Hey. I've been working on the removal of the reviews parameter from album infoboxes for quite a while now and yesterday the project goal was finally reached. I was reading back into the original decision to introduce the deprecation notice and was surprised to see that the entire thing was actually kickstarted by you last year! Small Wikipedia... Thought you'd like the know that the project you kinda started has now completed been after 52,700 artciles were cleared from the backlog :D Cheers  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  00:46, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Graves and Hunt to the Fleetwood Mac members list
Even thou Graves and Hunt were not permanent members to fleetwood mac they were still members as when Dave walker joined black Sabbath for a bit even thou he did record with them he was still a member. Graves was aked to join but after the tour when bob welch left he decied not to contuine with Fleetwood mac so graves was a semi - permanment memeber but still a memebr for a sort time ok i agree with you but he was still a member — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1000 Volts (talk • contribs) 17:32, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Graves member of fleetwood mac
Graves was a official member of fleetwood mac as he was asked to join the band as the second keyboardist but after the tour he felt it was not for him so he left the band before bob welch. He is not real known about as he was a member for a mouth and six days and that he never recorded with the band — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1000 Volts (talk • contribs) 14:35, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

I have a source Graves was a member
I have a source Graves was a member it's any interview with him and Christine it's an old magazine my granddad give me last night and it said that Christine found it good they hired a second keyboardist to give her a hand on tour and in the studio — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1000 Volts (talk • contribs) 14:41, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Graves in the mac
it was just two pages with the interview on it but i know the date of the mag was 26 October 1974 and graves said he was looking forward to working with christine and the band on a new studio album as a member of the mac (1000 Volts (talk) 14:50, 28 October 2012 (UTC))

My granp said the magazine was melody maker and the quote from graves is this "I'm looking forward to adding something to this already great band, i help engeeier their album Heroes are hard to find and got to know each member well. It came to me as a shock when mick asked me to join but i am enjoying playing live with the band and hopfully will strat a new studio album with the band soon" - Doug Graves 1000 Volts (talk) 15:04, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes could you and the refence with the quote and you you put him on the timeline as he was a member for a sort time 1000 Volts (talk) 15:14, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

I read the intervie more just know and Doug graves said that him and christine entered the studio to work on some songs for a new album. so he contributed to fleetwood mac so he could go on the timeline 1000 Volts (talk) 15:34, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

well i don't know he could have just said that in the interview to make it look like he was already in fleetwood mac it make himself like better and you can still get interview half way in a tour bu like you i don't believe they would have had time to go into the studio but i still think he should be added to the time line but put he in the row past member and say this beside him (unofficial member) 1000 Volts (talk) 15:48, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

To me it sounds like Graves was trying to push out christine or that he was one of these poeple who say i've recorded with this and i'm going to be on their next album when the person has not reorded one song 1000 Volts (talk) 15:54, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

ok i agree with you but don't you tink it's a bit strage that Graves said he recorded new songs with the man 1000 Volts (talk) 15:57, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

I think you should add touring members to the timeline I just had a look at black Sabbath's timeline and it has tour members on it and it is easier for people to see how long people were there not just the date 1000 Volts (talk) 16:04, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Ok i agree with you about the tour members than but i think in the time line christine mcvie should be above john mcvie and bob b. Also who is Nigel Watson? 1000 Volts (talk) 16:18, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

yet edited the time line so christine is above the bassists and even thou Graves had an extremely small impact on Fleetwood Mac we walks asked to join the band band by mick and he would have had to accept it or we would have gone on tour with the band 1000 Volts (talk) 16:43, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

even thou Graves had an extremely small impact on Fleetwood Mac we walks asked to join the band band by mick and he would have had to accept it or we would have gone on tour with the band 1000 Volts (talk) 23:06, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I just don't understand what you're trying to say. There is no evidence that Graves was ever a permanent member of the band. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:14, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Arrows
Hi Bretonbanquet. First of all, thank you very much for informing me of what was going on related to the Arrows RM. Since most of my closes go off without a hitch, I don't watch the pages after I close them. I've reached out to Pyrope to discuss the situation; discussion of my behavior probably belongs in user talk space more than an article's talk page. If you'd like to join in, check User talk:Pyrope. Thanks, BDD (talk) 22:05, 31 October 2012 (UTC)
 * No problem, I didn't see the point in letting you do a lot of work for nothing. I think the closure was pretty frustrating given the discussion we'd had, and in my experience, there's little to be gained by jumping on to a user talk page and shouting the odds. I can probably speak for Pyrope and say that neither of us were in the mood to talk positively about it, hence the rants. Formula One articles have become more trouble than they're worth as far as I'm concerned, with too many disruptive editors, sockpuppetry and stupid ideas, and I suspect our reaction was an extension of long-standing general frustration. I'm happy to chime in on Pyrope's page with regard to clearing up the links. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:17, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

GP flags
If I remember rightly, the consensus was obtained on the talk page for the 2012 season page. It's probably somewhere in the archives by now. From the looks of things, the changes were applied to the 2012 season, and nobody ever got around to doing it for any of the other season pages.

My memory of it is a bit fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure you should ask The359. I clearly remember him being the one to propose the change in the first place. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 23:05, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't recall starting the discussion but I do recall one of the key points being that, at the time, we used the European Union flag for the European Grand Prix, and the Pacific Grand Prix used a flag from some Asian/Pacific supernational organisation that I cannot recall the name of. The arguement was that these races were not in any way related to these organisations and that the use of these flags were incorrect.   Some groups do commonly use the European Union flag to represent all of Europe, although that too is incorrect as not all European nations are in the Union and the Grand Prix still has no relation to the organisation.  The solution was that we should not use the flags for the races, but rather for their locations, hence why there is a Spanish flag next to the Valencia street circuit on the 2012 calendar, rather than a flag next to the European Grand Prix.


 * This therefore extended to the season results table as the falgs should not be next to the races, and only the races are listed in that table. I had also thought that at one point the agreement was also to remove it from the results matrix as, once again, these list the specific events and not locations, although that appears to have not gone into effect and why we still get people changing the flag for the European Grand Prix from Spain to the EU.


 * As for where all of this discussion was, I have absolutely no memory of when or where it happened. If I had to guess it would actually be somewhere in 2011, as I recall this happening some time ago.  The359  ( Talk ) 00:04, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Currency conversion template
Hey Breton,

Do you know if there is a template for converting currencies? I know there is one for distance, and so I assume that there is one for currency, but if there is, I cannot seem to find it. The only place that I know might have one is the Skyfall page (an edit I made quite some time ago revolved around Turkish currency), but I'm hesitant to go there because I don't want the film spoiled for me. Silly, I know, but that's just me.

Anyway, the reason why I am asking is because my latest edits to the 2013 Formula One season page could really use it - not only are the entry fees for teams increasing significantly with the restructing of the system, but the base currency is being changed from Euros to US dollars. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 07:11, 3 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Alright. Thanks for that. I guess I'll just do what is done on the Skyfall page and convert the currency over manually. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 02:35, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Whole Lotta Rossie format
Sorry, mate. I read gramophone and thought of vandalism, not noticing that the entry on vinyl records is actually called that way. Thanks for reverting my mistake.--Gorpik (talk) 15:54, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No worries – yeah, it seems like an odd title for the article, to be honest. Bretonbanquet (talk) 16:04, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

London Bari
And on a day that FC United and Truro City both won! Couldn't get much better, eh? Haha!  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  23:29, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

On the Mark Webber talk page
It would appear that the IP editor you, Pyrope and Falcadore were so valiantly dealing with on Webber's talk page appears to be one of the regular trolls who have been plaguing F1 articles over the past year or so. I've unfortunately not had the time on Wikipedia over the past few weeks to really know what's been going on, but it's rather suspicious that on the day Eff Won gets banned again an IP jumps up demanding changes on the filmiest reasons and appearing to know the editors trying to reason with them. Certainly worth flagging up if they continue. QueenCake (talk) 00:10, 5 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Aye that's definitely the same person, same attitude and to top it off the IP address appears to be within the same range too. Perhaps not Eff Won (or DeFacto) but maybe another Lucy-Marie account on holiday in Germany! For sure though, it's someone that apparently has a grudge against us. I still wouldn't be surprised if it's been the same one or two people behind all of this trouble. a lot more hassling than your run of the mill vandal who just wants to write their name in capitals! :p QueenCake (talk) 00:58, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Non-League Football League Tables
Hello, I don't suppose you are in possession of this book by any chance? If so, could you provide the page numbers for the 1903–04 to 1908–09 Western League seasons please? I haven't seen a source which doesn't include an error in Argyle's record for the first season. Goals scored should be 23 and goals conceded 19, as shown here, yet the sources I've seen appear to have left out the 1–1 draw with Queens Park Rangers. A simple count was too much to ask back then, clearly! Argyle 4 Life talk  06:06, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
 * That's fantastic, thank you. The page numbers could be added for clarity, but there are a lot of articles so if it'll take quite a while then I wouldn't worry about it. I'm going to start improving List of Plymouth Argyle F.C. seasons soon. Making sure absolutely everything is correct, it adheres to MOS guidelines and sorts properly. I couldn't find a source for the Western League campaigns that didn't include the 1903–04 error so this book is a great help. Close shave for City! Argyle 4 Life  talk  22:57, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I've not been very active this year and have just been doing bits and pieces, nothing major, so I've been itching to focus on a project when I have time. When I see the quality of work that people like Struway2, NapHit, and Mattythewhite have put in it makes me feel inspired. The gap at the bottom looks big at the moment but Hodges is a talented guy, I heard McCormick is between the sticks and Bazza is coming back so City will have every chance. It'll probably be a long time before we go up again. Crowds are holding but a significant percentage of the gates go towards repaying debt. Argyle 4 Life  talk  23:27, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

MeasuteIT's SPI
Hi Bretonbanquet

I saw your message on MeasureIT's Talk Page.

May I ask a small favour from you - would you please look at this version of the SPI page. I believe that the refactoring I added were entirely within the spirit of permissible changes. As can be seen, I did not touch anybody else's comments (apart from removing a level of indentation), nor did I change any of the threads. If other editors would like to do the same, great! If you are happy for me to reinstate that page, I will go ahead, otherwise I will leave things as they are. BTW, I have brought MeasureIT's actions up on WP:ANI. Martinvl (talk) 12:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Black Star Riders
Hey,

I saw your comments regarding the Black Star Riders page, and disagree with them.

Some of the points that you raised seem to be contentious purely for the sake of contention (such as your preference for "group" rather than "band", even though the case can be made that there is a technical distinction between the two). Others points, whilst not being needlessly argumentative, are nonetheless flawed in my opinion. I will respond when time better allows, and I ask you not to treat the article as a personal fiefdom where your approval of each and every change is required. The fact that you are blanket reverting rather than reverting or re-editing specific areas of the article is indicative of an unhelpful, haughty approach to editing, which, in addition to being contrary to the basic principles of Wikipedia, is clearly unhelpful. However, I assume good faith, and shall reciprocate in kind.

By the way, the Oxford comma IS appropriate in British English AND as American English, and, from the perspective of prose structure and clarity, is indeed a better way of communicating the meaning of a sentence.

Have a good day.

P.S.: As you will have noticed, this is a shared IP address, so any replies that you leave may not be seen by me, but by another user.

86.148.203.81 (talk) 19:28, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I believe...
Some commiserations are in order, after Hull's late show against Orient today. Mind you, you still got a better result at Hull than we did in the league! grumbles. Craig (talk)  22:35, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Let's not mention injury time any more then!
 * A long overdue sacking if I'm honest; I wasn't fussed on him at the start, after his abject performances in the Bundesliga with Cologne (relegated in 2011/12) and with this 3 wins in 16 run of late, his days were numbered. Mind you, the players have to foot some of the blame too; we were second at one point this season, we're now eighteenth. Worrying. Today was just the icing on the cake. Mind you, Dean Saunders could be the replacement...Second with Donny in League One, however only has a 36% winning record in almost 75 games in charge. His predecessor at the Keepmoat, Sean O'Driscoll, is also linked with us...Wolverhampton-born so it would be the perfect combination, plus it would be the perfect way to stick it in Forest's craw after his abysmal sacking after a win against Leeds. Personally, I wouldn't mind Alan Curbishley, but he's been out of the managerial games for over four years now. Craig  (talk)  01:38, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It must be weak if Orient are closer to the playoffs than the relegation zone! They're usually in or around the relegation zone at this time, and escape towards the end. Sorry, couldn't resist.
 * Can't believe Doncaster have given us permission to talk with him. Getting slightly worried now. Craig  (talk)  15:19, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Hartlepool especially. In a separate league, by the looks of it! Nine points behind 23rd. Yeah, we've agreed terms now. All going at a rate of knots; should be in for Friday's home game against Blackburn. 20 games to save a season. Craig  (talk)  23:18, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * We may well need it! Craig  (talk)  23:18, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * * grumble, grumble* point *grumble, grumble*. And so on... Craig  (talk)  22:31, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I think getting back into the top half is our first priority, before we can even think about the play-offs! Craig  (talk)  00:08, 13

January 2013 (UTC)

Peacekeeper
Hello! First of all, thanks for all of your edits! You are a big help to Wikipedia. Second of all, how can we improve the "Peacekeeper" page for Fleetwood Mac. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 16:14, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
Loginnigol (talk) 00:08, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Jimmy Jackson
Hi Bretonbanquet,

Many thanks for the edit on the page for Jimmy, much appreciated :-)

Kind regards,

Sally Jackson — Preceding unsigned comment added by Salsajax (talk • contribs) 22:36, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!!
Thanks for the friendly advice man!!! You seem quite positive!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pollack man34 (talk • contribs) 13:08, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Favor to ask
Hi there, I have a favor to ask. I'm butting heads with an editor who is insisting that an article in British English should use a singular noun to refer to the band (specifically, "Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds is a rock band..."). Can you back me up on the point that British English refers to collective nouns in the plural over at User talk:Soulparadox? I appreciate the help if it's possible. PS: I always enjoy your editing, e.g. at Thin Lizzy, etc. Cheers, CCS81 (talk) 01:24, 1 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I think the issue was resolved, so you can scratch that. Cheers, CCS81 (talk) 04:23, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Giancarlo Baghetti
Sorry for accidentally undoing your edits. I think I must have edited an old version of the page. DH85868993 (talk) 05:45, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Reverting
Wonder if you have time to explain how you perform revert, and does this require a user permission. FlatOut 02:58, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Howzit Bro--
Was wondering if you are busy on a project requiring photos or whatnot, if you'd like any help. I know you are a bit of a lone wolf, but I'm still here for you if needed. :) --Leahtwosaints (talk) 20:23, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit summaries
I'll try, but I can't guarantee anything. I find it hard to sum up what I've done if I've made over a whole article, for instance. Usually I'll fix links, remove red links (even though they can be helpful, they look out of place), fix uses of quotation marks and grammar, and then when I try to think at the end what it is I've done, it's hard to summarise quickly because I usually just want to move on and be done with it. I'm not saying what you said is wrong, but in my experience, it's mostly been IP addresses who vandalise pages and they can't leave edit summaries at all.  Ss 112  17:06, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh right, I forgot IP addresses could leave edit summaries, because I swear I remember not being able to do that back before I became an editor (or maybe I just never used to; I'm not sure). I really do use "Fixed things" a lot, though. I should have curbed that behaviour a few years ago.  Ss 112  17:25, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 30
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A season of two halves
Ah, the joys of League One. In theory, we'd be down from the weekend before last; this past weekend was just to the mathematical part being secured. To think, we were third with 19 points after 10 games of the season. That's the part that infuriates me the most. Saunders has already been chopped, but he's been the scapegoat. The owner is too trigger-happy with the sackings by the looks of it now; we're getting to stage of Blackburn levels of managerial sackings. Players have a lot to answer to as well... Craig (talk)  00:12, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Kenny Jackett would be a perfect fit for the team; surprising he left Millwall, so it's always worth a shot with him. But then again, we have another tournament we can win now, with the Johnstone's Paint Trophy! ;) Craig  (talk)  07:04, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Whitehawk / Brighton City template.
What new template have you made? Skyblueshaun 23:39, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

San Marino Grand Prix
Why have you changed all of the San Marino flags on most Formula One articles to the Italian flag? Was their a vote to change them or a discussion? I know that the event was held in Italy not actually San Marino itself but that event has always been represented with the San Marino flag not the Italian! You should start a discussion about it before you go ahead and change things. Daniels Renault Sport (talk) 15:07, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Dreams
Hello! Should we make a different page for the Corr's dreams. The article is Dreams (Fleetwood Mac song), not Dreams (Fleetwood Mac song and Corrs song) Dobbyelf62 (talk) 16:23, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

You are correct. The only exception are parodies. Ex: Another One Bites the Dust and Another One Rides the Bus. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 21:19, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

RE: Rodríguez brothers
Okay, I take note. --Vivaelcelta {talk &middot; &#32; contributions} 11:37, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

2013–14 Wessex Football League
I am going to create the article for the upcoming 2013–13 Wessex Football League season soon. Should I create an article for the new team joining Wessex Division One, Andover Town FC? Cam Melling (talk) 14:15, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Wessex League
I've just created 2013-14 Wessex Football League but I haven't added the results grid yet as I had a few problems with that last time. I've also created Andover Town F.C. but there's not much to write yet.Cam Melling (talk) 10:56, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Notifications
Isn't those thanking options ever so slightly cheesy? ;) Craig  (talk)  11:35, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Nor me; I just felt like trying it out on a user that I know makes legitimate edits/reverts/anything else of the sort. Corny, but effective. The exact opposite of the Wolves board! Haha. But we got the right man for the job, at last. Craig  (talk)  12:22, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The only encouragement new users should need, is to read that spiel on your user page. That is still my favourite ever response by another user to one of your edits. Utterly tremendous. I really hope there is patience from the top; since McCarthy's sacking, it's been like Russian roulette. Moxey is a complete and utter twat; just as bad as the tripe that was on the pitch for most of the 2012/13 season. Just goes to show that Solbakken didn't do as bad as people originally thought...just a few bad results, and it cost him.
 * I'm actually tempted to put a small wager on Wolves and Orient going up through the automatics come May. But then again, we'll probably both be battling last day to just about get a playoff spot. It always happens! Craig  (talk)  12:33, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Okay, he only won a third of his games...but...it was still more than Saunders! Yeah, we need a new defence there or there abouts. All pretty shoddy. Babette...can only be an American, of course. That last part sums up our season last year! Craig  (talk)  18:53, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It can't get much worse though...says someone who is a year wiser than he was yesterday! Craig  (talk)  22:48, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
 * True...but we've not went down the trap of owner after owner... Craig  (talk)  10:36, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

HRT
Are you trying to threaten me with trying to get me blocked! Because it just sounds like you've got your pants in a twist and you cant just go around blocking people when you feel like it when they haven't done anything really wrong. Daniels Renault Sport (talk) 16:48, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Extended play
Quick question: How does one upload an image? The article "Extended Play (Fleetwood Mac EP)" lacks the album cover. Thanks! Dobbyelf62 (talk) 20:01, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll add the image sometime this week. Rock On! Dobbyelf62 (talk) 16:00, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Rollback
I am curious to know how did this happen? In case you clicked on "rollback" in watchlist, you can add this code in your common.css page .mw-special-Watchlist .mw-rollback-link { display: none; } Tito ☸ Dutta 12:37, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Are you using WP:Twinkle? Using that you can easily give warning and notices. -- Tito ☸ Dutta 18:49, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * That isn't something I would be able to figure out, unfortunately. I'm very poor at tech stuff. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:26, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Caterham

 * Article link please. Did you mean Caterham? I can not see any edit war there. -- Tito ☸ Dutta 18:47, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * BTW, did you type the timestamp manually? Your post's time is almost 1 hour after mine. -- Tito ☸ Dutta 18:51, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Stewart Yetton
But the deciding factor is whether they're sourced, which they're not... Mattythewhite (talk) 21:45, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't tend to explicitly reference the infobox stats themselves, but rather cite them in the career stats tables if one is present (like at Clayton Donaldson). One other method is to refer to the sources in their own section in the 'References', like at Keith Fahey.  But when there's 400 individual sources it's a bit tricky... what would you think of something similar to Fahey, along the lines of:
 * Infobox statistics
 * Weymouth: Weymouth F.C. match programme, [date of programme]
 * Tiverton Town: Tiverton Town F.C. match programmes, [date of first programme] to [date of last programme] (etc)
 * Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 22:12, 15 June 2013 (UTC).

Jeremy Spencer
Please watch out for the 3 reverts rule, and consider discussing the "best known" issue at the article talk page. Regards, De728631 (talk) 19:07, 16 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I have restored the article per consensus at the ANI discussion. So it's up to the IP to seek discussion (or be blocked). De728631 (talk) 19:20, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually the credits go to CongerEelSolo; that must've been an edit conflict. De728631 (talk) 19:29, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
 * FYI, our IP pal edited it four times so far. I don't have enough juice with WP to lodge a complaint based on 3RR.  CongerEelSolo (talk) 19:42, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
 * And now they've got their own thread at WP:ANI. De728631 (talk) 19:12, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Truro badge
Hey Breton, no worries, I've added the new badge to Truro City F.C. and also moved the old badge into the history section for reference.  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  04:08, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

British v Scottish for motor-racing
Hi Bretonbanquet, a question you might be able to help me with. In several infoboxes of Scottish drivers it lists 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Scottish. From what I can gather from my previous edits in relation to British drivers – Adam Carroll- where you pointed out it should be the British flag icon. I have made a couple of changes but have found more. Should I continue with my present style of edits or revert the ones I hve already made? Cheers. Murry1975 (talk) 10:36, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey Bretonbanquet

I'm sending you this because you've made quite a few edits to the template namespace in the past couple of months. If I've got this wrong, or if I haven't but you're not interested in my request, don't worry; this is the only notice I'm sending out on the subject :).

So, as you know (or should know – we sent out a centralnotice and several watchlist notices) we're planning to deploy the VisualEditor on Monday, 1 July, as the default editor. For those of us who prefer markup editing, fear not; we'll still be able to use the markup editor, which isn't going anywhere.

What's important here, though, is that the VisualEditor features an interactive template inspector; you click an icon on a template and it shows you the parameters, the contents of those fields, and human-readable parameter names, along with descriptions of what each parameter does. Personally, I find this pretty awesome, and from Monday it's going to be heavily used, since, as said, the VisualEditor will become the default.

The thing that generates the human-readable names and descriptions is a small JSON data structure, loaded through an extension called TemplateData. I'm reaching out to you in the hopes that you'd be willing and able to put some time into adding TemplateData to high-profile templates. It's pretty easy to understand (heck, if I can write it, anyone can) and you can find a guide here, along with a list of prominent templates, although I suspect we can all hazard a guess as to high-profile templates that would benefit from this. Hopefully you're willing to give it a try; the more TemplateData sections get added, the better the interface can be. If you run into any problems, drop a note on the Feedback page.

Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 21:49, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Quality scale
"Think About Me" has not received a quality scale rating. Would you say it is Start Class or C -class?

Is Peacekeeper good enough to become a Start Class article? Leave an answer on my talk page. Thanks! Dobbyelf62 (talk) 01:27, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 22
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Sarah (Thin Lizzy song), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page David Mallet (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Win of cosmic stature
Sorry for the pun, but that result caught my eye tonight! Interesting that the Wolves-Orient games seem to be over the holidays this season. December 29 at Molineux (Sunday) and Easter Monday at the Matchroom. Who paid who at the fixture bureau? ;) Craig  (talk)  21:36, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, what?! Haha! Mind you, don't the Cosmos not play in a league? I'm going sniffing to the bureau. Haha. ;) Craig  (talk)  07:15, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Any notable players in their starting eleven, last night? Though, to be fair... I wouldn't mind if it was the other way around! Craig  (talk)  18:23, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Aye, aye. We'll see come May! Haha. My god, how the mighty have fallen. Senna should've been the player of Euro 2008, and yet five years later, he's gone to the USA to retire. Like Kenny Miller, Robbie Keane, Thierry Henry and David Beckham etc. Oh christ, there's a name from the past. Never got a proper run, and ended up at Leeds on loan. Craig  (talk)  19:29, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I had a quick scan around to see if I could see a salary figure, but from this article, it says six figures per the MLS' designated player role, whereas the Cosmos are not yet an MLS team. DPs in the MLS earn around $370,000 as part of a salary cap. Not mega bucks, but still a lot of money. I remain to be convinced about the MLS. Still a sub-standard sport in the States, behind the Big Four. A lot of ex-Wolves players have a habit of that too. Rather annoying! Craig  (talk)  22:52, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * It has to be down to sponsorship and endorsements. No other way! Henry has helped with the Red Bulls performances; he has a goal every other game, which was better than his Barcelona spell, but off of his Arsenal form when he was 5 years younger. But the team has won very little even with him there. Bit like Arsenal then! Haha. Craig  (talk)  00:21, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Arsenal will stutter to a cup at best. At present, they are the fifth or sixth best team in England. Manchester clubs, Chelsea and Tottenham are better than them; then it is a toss up between Arsenal and Liverpool. Intriguingly, Chelsea are the title favourites with the bookies! I don't get the move for Suárez, considering he is banned after the MMA style bite on Ivanovic. Orient 33/1 to win League One I see, from the bookies too. 8/1 best for promotion. Worth a wager? Haha. Craig  (talk)  22:09, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
 * From Oddschecker, it looks very close at the top. Best prices: Chelsea 2/1 (Hills), Man City 11/5 (several), Man U 9/4 (several). 0.25/1 between the three of them. Chelsea have made some solid signings, plus they get several good names back from loan. Marco van Ginkel looks a solid CM, André Schürrle banged them in for Leverkusen in the past; as for the loan returns, Essien is back from Real, and Kevin De Bruyne is back from Bremen. De Bruyne is a fantastic player; I seem to remember him tearing Scotland to shreds for Belgium last year. I can see another red card down the line for Suárez, or even the five yellows! Mainly for diving like Bale. Since last night, Betfred have put them in at 25/1, so they seem convinced that the O's might challenge. Predictably, Wolves are clear favourites. 7/2 as low as, and nearly evens to go up (15/14). Orient 4/1 to be relegated, Wolves 40/1. Hopefully that doesn't happen, but have to put it just in case.
 * For the cups: Wolves 250/1, Orient 300/1 for the FA; Capital One, Wolves 100/1 and Orient 200/1, while for the JPT: Wolves are 8/1 favourites, with Orient at 22/1. Craig  (talk)  10:47, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't think I can pick a winner just yet; I would probably put Chelsea as slight favourites if I'm honest; better signings that the others, to date. Full list of odds, here. I think we will play kids in it, if I am honest. Last played in the tournament in 1989, when we lost to Torquay in the semis. Or in my terms... Before I was born! Craig (talk)  14:39, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * MK Dons are a funny team; one match they can be brilliant, the next god-awful. I'd put money on Brentford; they will want to make amends for last season, and a slight capitulation towards the end. Mind you, I cannot remember the last time a League Two team won the JPT. It's a League One team's best chance of a trophy, other than the league. At present, Northampton, but it is a load of shenanigans with the operators of the Ricoh. A farce, mainly. Craig  (talk)  23:43, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Still think they may need a few players to get them over the line I feel. You're not going to win the league with just 21 players, I feel. The Coventry situation is one of the worst I can ever remember, with just how farcical it really is. Craig  (talk)  16:24, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I suppose, Portsmouth could be the same too... More bad luck than Mark Webber. Craig  (talk)  17:32, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I would just love for him to stick one up Vettel's trumpet before the end of the season, before he heads to Porsche (the 2014 car is a thing of beauty, and that's just in the spy colours). Double standards from Der Wunderkind with his moan at Kimi about a lack of room, considering he had done the same in a choppy manner to Grosjean at the start. Craig  (talk)  20:39, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I think Grosjean has been outstanding of late; sure he has the ragged edges, but some of the racecraft has been mesmerising. The funny thing about it is, I don't think either penalty should have been given. Button wasn't entirely blameless for the collision, not that a certain M. Brundle noticed, so I couldn't fathom that one... and the pass of Massa was laughable. Just last week, everybody was waxing lyrical about Márquez's pass on Rossi at Laguna Seca (if you've not already seen it, I strongly urge you do so), and in Formula One, you get a penalty. Laughable. Absolutely laughable. Craig  (talk)  21:03, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The penalties are too frequent, and often wrong. God only knows what will happen when the penalty points come into effect next year. I'm actually enjoying the IndyCar season more than Formula One. Sao Paulo was one of the finest races I've ever seen and the Indy 500 was mesmeric as well. Formula One... there has been no standout race. Get rid of KERS, DRS and all the other bullshit that Formula One has gone into. It's no longer ten-tenths and all that. Craig  (talk)  00:51, 31 July 2013 (UTC)
 * This is the only reason why I want to see Grosjean winning a race this season; basically, to stick two fingers up at his critics. Sao Paulo and Indianapolis. Those two are by far and away the best single-seater races I have seen in the past five years. It might not be the prettiest looking car in the world but Dallara's DW12 is a stormer. Okay, you've still got the gimmick of push-to-pass systems, but I don't mind that in IndyCar... because it is limited. Unlike Formula One, when you can do it every lap, so you have to be frugal with the planning of it. Two compounds as well; reds and blacks. Again, like Formula One, you have to run both, but they are not so dramatically alterable between compounds. Craig  (talk)  18:36, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Oops, I must have missed the notification that you left a message on the talk page; hence my very late response! Yeah, they are a start-to-finish job; you'd be mad to miss a moment of them both. Gorman's a good little player; never got a proper run in the team... in fact, he has played more games as an international (9), than his entire league career! Says it all really! Craig (talk)  01:18, 3 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Last time you topped a league before yesterday? ;) Craig  (talk)  10:14, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, that is tremendous. Mind you, from checking our statistics against Carlisle, we've won 9 of the 14 games we have played against them. Won the last 3, but they've never played since I've been alive! What does that say?! (Interestingly, the Wolves-Orient head-to-head is 21–17 to Wolves, with 8 draws) Good to hear that Gorman played well. Yeah, 0–0 with Preston. It is a satisfying draw just now, but we'll see how it matters come the business end of the season. I think they will be too; Simon Grayson always has a knack of getting teams up from this division. Probably no tougher game to start the season with. Live IndyCar tonight by the way, just in case you go down to watch the previous races. 8pm on BT Sport 2, or via other means! Craig  (talk)  14:44, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
 * According to the stats, we played them in the Fourth Division in 1987/88. 3–1 win at home, and 1–0 win away. Three seasons before, it was in the Second Division. Bonkers. There's the entire list for Wolves-Orient. Time to go through all the teams, to see who Orient have done best against! ;) Did you see them both? Commitment today then, haha! Tonight's race was another thriller (I shall not give anymore away, in case you've not seen it!) Craig  (talk)  23:54, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Didn't know about the site until a few days ago, but I feel that I may need it a lot more due to the fact that I've not seen H2H records for us against most of the teams in the division! What did you make of them both then? Mid-Ohio is a thriller, as I stated above. All 1:43 of it! Craig  (talk)  19:19, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I know for a fact that we've never played Crawley, and we've not played the current incarnation of MK Dons (although we did play Wimbledon 10 times). Stevenage too. So, yeah... some exotic new locations. Push-to-pass has been around since the ChampCar days, and have always preferred it over DRS and KERS. Hate those with a passion. Can't beat a bit of Sambadrome action, to live with Las Vegas. ;) Formula One cars are too easy to handle, and the IndyCars are tough to handle. They have been trying standing starts of late. They failed in race one in Toronto, but in race two... this was the result. Craig  (talk)  00:11, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I think Carlisle will be the furthest I'll get to, for a potential away game! Injuries, illness, and three times off the woodwork. Their goal was an absolute peach but. 25-yard free kick of the highest standard. Worth catching tomorrow at some point. They still have to work off the minus ten, but with Elvis as their manager, they will do soundly. I think they tried it with Valencia, and it bombed. Majorly. As did Singapore. But not a surprise out of Tilke though. Mind you, Moscow's track looks not too shabby. Craig  (talk)  22:06, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't mind that; would make the 75-minute train journey each way, even more pleasing! Yeah, I'm all for saving a few midweek games for promotion. Cut and thrust of our season there. I'm not convinced by Sochi; looks like another dogshit street circuit. Too long at nearly 6km also. Craig  (talk)  22:40, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Only Spa and Silverstone are longer, and that is where that conversation will end before Sochi darkens it with its presence. Moscow managed to make a DTM race half-decent! Agree with every proposal there! Craig (talk)  23:45, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

New badge for Cribbs F.C.
Hey, thanks for pointing that out for me :) I've added their new logo now. It was quite a strange name... When I first saw it last year I had to check it was even real!  Del <sub style="color:black;">♉ sion 23  (talk)  13:53, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

East Midlands Counties Football League
Have created the last league for the next season of Step 9/10, so I think they are all covered now, am I right or is there still a league missing that would need to be added? Catgamer (talk) 20:56, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

First gameday of Levels 9 and 10
Hello Bretonbanquet, I have finished to update all leagues I covered last year, so gameday 1 of levels 9/10 is complete and will continue on Monday and Tuesday. By the way thanks for doing Essex Senior Football League Catgamer (talk) 10:09, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Personal Information from Filmmaking
This is not an empty threat. This user want's to me to ask my address. NewFranco (talk) 00:27, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Where? And don't say his talk page – his comment is not only unclear, but he patently wasn't talking to you anyway. Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:32, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Mick Fleetwood
Sorry mate, I've been on nights at work so not been back to the article for a few days. Are you a big Fleetwood Mac fan? --S.G.(GH) ping! 21:52, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Fleetwood Mac
I've been recently noticing an edit war on the Fleetwood Mac article, particularly the timeline and band personnel. I believe the article should be put under semi protection. You can leave your thoughts on my talk page. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 12:56, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Requesting your opinion on Rick Rescorla
Hi. An editorial dispute has arisen on the Rick Rescorla article. Can you offer your opinion here? Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 23:25, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks
For keeping the top spot warm for us! :) Craig  (talk)  20:42, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Haha, the game at Christmas can't come soon enough, with that attitude. Haha! We were lucky. Really lucky. Crawley are a decent outfit. Craig  (talk)  21:24, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Everybody was cheering, I believe. Potentially, but they were the better team for the majority of the match. We sneaked it; could be pivotal when it matters most. Crewe are a right Jekyll and Hyde team. Can be brilliant one game, terrible the next. Haha. Craig  (talk)  21:55, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I actually think Stevenage will go down, that's the weird thing. Just don't think they have a strong enough team to survive. Craig  (talk)  10:29, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, good grief. That's just disgusting. That is just an incitement for trouble. Third favourites for relegation, behind Carlisle and Coventry. You may get your wish. Craig  (talk)  13:58, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Idiots. Yeah, they should be safe. Even money for them to be relegated is quite surprising. I see you lot are winning... again. Damn. Our stay might be short-lived. ;) Craig  (talk)  14:19, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Charlton's game has been suspended due to the rain. Doncaster had been winning by 3! Craig  (talk)  14:54, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Abandoned at half-time, with Doncaster 3–1 up. Oops. Craig  (talk)  15:48, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that would have been the case. 13–3 to 11–1 it would have been; you escape with top spot again. We're back to third again. Haha. Oh well! Craig (talk)  16:02, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Late title challenge, totally! Craig  (talk)  16:06, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * [Insert Jaws theme] We're coming to get you. ;) Craig  (talk)  15:58, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, that I didn't know. Impressive. Charlton and Leeds were the last teams to do that in the division, in 2009/10. Charlton faded to fourth, and didn't get promoted while Leeds were second. 1-in-2 chance of promotion then. ;) Mind you, The last time we started with 13 points out of 15 at the start of a season, we won the league, so beware! The unusual thing about it, is that we won four games in a row at one point last season, yet got relegated. That's barmy enough. Craig  (talk)  16:52, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Leyton Orient are now as short as 10/1 to win the league in places. 14/1 at highest price. I would be really surprised if you don't finish top six by the end of the season. At worst. Realistically, if we don't win the league, I will be disappointed. Not just because of my fandom of the team, they are heads and shoulders the best team by depth. Yeah, MotM is a no brainer this month. Craig  (talk)  17:08, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Halcyon days since such low odds? ;) Craig  (talk)  17:38, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * If the points continue to rack up, single digits is entirely plausible. 100/30 for promotion. Craig  (talk)  17:59, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It might not get back to 8/1... ;) Craig  (talk)  19:07, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Third at worst I predict... Craig (talk)  00:04, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * My predictions are always concrete fact. ;) Catch the Baltimore IndyCar race? If not, I won't spoil the action.
 * But feast your eyes on this. Wikipedia has gone mad for stats now. Unsurprisingly, it's up at WPMS. It's frightening... Craig  (talk)  22:02, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It was um...quite something. Well worth finding on YouTube when it pops up.
 * ALMS managed to have a crash prior to the green flag..., while the NASCAR boys crashed coming towards the flag. Interesting 24 hours in North America. IndyCar is repeated at 9am tomorrow on ESPN, just in case you want to record it. But add at least 30 minutes of an overrun. The race went long. Really long. Craig  (talk)  22:46, 1 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Not popped on YouTube yet, but I can't imagine it will be later than the next few days... That NASCAR race was wild; youngest ever winner in Chase Elliott (the son of Bill Elliott) after punting Ty Dillon (the brother of Austin Dillon; grandson of Richard Childress), plus the Mike Skeen (+ girlfriend) on Max Slapis. It is quite something in America. Tagliani/Tracy in San Jose many years ago was hilarious too. Craig  (talk)  22:50, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Now it has. Craig  (talk)  19:04, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Please stop winning! Craig (talk)  16:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Our horror show late on, has cost us second to Peterborough. However, like Orient, we've got a game in hand to make up. Craig  (talk)  16:22, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * True that. All our goals conceded have came in the second half of games. The opening 270 minutes of first half games, isn't too bad at all. Ours is against Walsall. We've drawn against them in the JPT (winning on pens), so that could go either way. According to Statto.com, the last time Orient won six league games in succession was back in the days of two points for wins... 1961/62, when you lot won nine in a row. Brighton, Scunthorpe, Norwich, Newcastle, Middlesbrough, Swansea (x2), Walsall and Derby. Craig  (talk)  16:41, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Even so, the fact that Orient have gone fifty years without winning six in a row, is quite remarkable. You expect one decent run of results every so often, but that stat is beyond remarkable. We had two runs of seven in our Championship-winning season; just the way it goes sometimes I guess... Walsall are currently tenth, so the mid-table, hot/cold team applies perfectly! Craig  (talk)  16:57, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * At least you've still got a bit to go to reach the Orient record of ten. ;) Craig  (talk)  17:11, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * All listed here. That Baltimore video I posted above. The last one to be held in Baltimore. HALLELUJAH! Craig  (talk)  17:47, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It was one of them races that anything could've happened. Which had more rolled into it than this season of Formula One. Hate DRS. Hate KERS. Hate the tyres. Ugh. With the early rises of the next few weeks to come. Hmm... Craig  (talk)  18:05, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't get me wrong, I love the early starts... but the way it has been going of late, is it worth getting up early dawn, for such races? I've never been alive to see the turbo era in Formula One originally, but I hope this batch next year will do something. Don't get me started on Sirotkin. He's been doing alright in Formula Renault 3.5 this season but to see him potentially being lined up in Formula One next season is frankly disturbing. The irony of it is, is the fact that last year's champion Robin Frijns has been cast aside now. He's five times the talent Sirotkin is. Craig  (talk)  18:18, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

It is going back down the route of pay drivers, alas. None of whom are actually any good. Pérez was great in junior formulae, but apart from his lucky podiums last season, has done very little to appease everyone. Gutiérrez has failed as I very much expected this season, easily being outpaced by the Hulk. Impressed with van der Garde and most so, Bianchi out of them all. The less said about Chilton the better. I've been tempted to rant the same on Twitter after races [Yeah, I know... one of them], but I have restrained myself to date. I think it is probably why I have enjoyed other forms of racing this season more than Formula One. Speaking of previous events in Formula One, NASCAR's had its own Singapore 2008. Caused chaos beyond all known realms of possibility. Craig (talk)  22:46, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Gutiérrez and Sirotkin? *shudder* That's what I think of that partnership. Bloody hell, forgot about Bottas. He's outpaced Maldonado the majority of the season, but has nothing to show for it except a third-place qualifying in Canada. It's still rumbling on today! Craig  (talk)  22:27, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * NASCAR's Piquet moment, not considering the fact that Piquet is now in NASCAR of course. In another aside of ex-Formula One drivers, Big Juan is heading back to IndyCar. Craig  (talk)  21:44, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Not in the slightest. Every sport has cheating... More so NASCAR than any other form of motorsport. Sorry the response last night was a bit short. I had just about thawed out from spectating at the Tour of Britain yesterday. Craig  (talk)  11:59, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, a minor slip up for us last night. Our "result that makes us stop in our tracks a bit" sort of result. Wake up call really. Just in case you wish to view such photos. Includes a visit to Brunton Park, home of the Carlisle United lot. Or the ground famous for Jimmy Glass. Craig  (talk)  19:23, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like a very old fashioned style ground; still got the terracing I believe. The Jimmy Glass goal is folklore; Carlisle could've gone out of the league had he not scored. Then, I don't think he ever played for them again? The fuzzy yeti thing is basically for Skoda's sponsorship of the mountains classification. And of course, there's the Škoda Yeti. Ugly SUV that it is. Craig  (talk)  19:56, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Apparently he is a taxi driver now, or so I have read. Yeah, the guy that won the yeti (Ángel Madrazo) was so elated to receive it! But the weather was miserable. I got into Kendal at 12:30. It was still raining at 5:30 when I left. It was mental. Craig  (talk)  21:08, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Even less with a white, stuffed one! Haha. I am very surprised it didn't flood. It was torrential... Craig  (talk)  21:34, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Unlucky 13th; it just had to be that game for your run to end. Craig (talk)  20:45, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I thought you would have gotten at least a point with them; hell, we stuttered over the line with a point from them on Saturday, so I'm secretly delighted at that result tonight! That and Peterborough's result too. Haha! Yeah. Good result for us against Oldham, and still the game-in-hand with Carlisle to come in two midweeks. I notice you're at home to Rotherham; tough game that one, although ours at Bradford will be equally tough. Big one of Peterborough-Orient a week on Saturday. Craig  (talk)  21:05, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Think we would have to put half a dozen through just to go top! I just hope that doesn't start a bad run for you lot. But think about it, you're eleven points ahead of seventh this early in the season. Mental how much of a gap has opened up between Orient, Peterborough and Wolves, and the rest. Craig  (talk)  21:18, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I still think Orient might sneak the second spot or somebody will charge up from behind. Preston for instance. I'm not convinced by Peterborough just yet. Craig  (talk)  21:29, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * My predictions are usually accurate. Just the Félix da Costa prediction has gone awry so far... Craig  (talk)  22:04, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I have been impressed with Kvyat in Formula Three and GP3 this season, but thin is no way says he is ready for Formula One. He's not even done Formula Renault 3.5, which both Félix da Costa and to an extent, Carlos Sainz, Jr. have. Formula One has become a glory hole for pay drivers. Maldonado, Gutiérrez, Pérez, Sirotkin, Kvyat, to name five. I just have this funny feeling that Kevin Magnussen, Stoffel Vandoorne and Félix da Costa will all miss out on Formula One drives for 2014. Will they even get a spot in GP2? I don't even know... Craig  (talk)  06:57, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This is why I have become more and more annoyed with Formula One over recent seasons. The tyres, the gimmicks, the pay drivers. It's not how it should be. If I remember back to my first full season watching Formula One, in 1996, your only real pay drivers were Diniz, Rosset and Lavaggi. I'm ruling out Forti because they of course went bust! I think it's why I have been enjoying other formulae this season even more than usual, just because F1 in 2013 has been average at best. IndyCar - amazing from start to finish, GP2 - wild championship battle, and several other series have been compelling such as DTM. But let's face it, even if Vettel wins the title this weekend, I bloody well hope Porsche honour their Supercup leader (and hopefully champion) with a couple of non-points, tribute races. It wouldn't feel right if Sean Edwards was denied his title for this season. Craig  (talk)  18:59, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The funny thing about that is, that I always did when I was growing up through the 1990s. I used to doodle on my dad's road atlases, trying to acquire a decent circuit in Glasgow for Formula One. That was fun! This Nordschleife footage proves that Edwards was on his way to good things in GT racing. Two 24 hour wins in 2013, and was a likely Porsche factory driver next year... Then gone at 26. So sad. This coming months after playing his dad in Rush, who of course, saved Lauda from a wreck on that same circuit. Those coincidental things just come around too much, for all the wrong reasons. Craig  (talk)  21:29, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

We always knew it wouldn't be possible due to the fact that the parliamentary shenanigans would have had to be passed before a meeting could be held. I've recalled the Birmingham Superprix on YouTube several times, just because it looked amazing. Interesting to see what they will do with that proposed Formula E meeting that's due to be held in London in 2015. I'm waiting until the DVD comes out. Did it for Senna and TT: Closer to the Edge. I just think you get more money out of them than the cinema nowadays, considering how bloody expensive it is now! Probably the start of next year for it, but still worth it! Craig (talk)  22:26, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The London event will only happen due to Lord Drayson. They're taking part and he's an ex-Parliamentarian. Pass the tissues! Haha. I'm not convinced myself that it will pass either of them - I do urge you to get the TT one, utterly amazing - but it's an interesting take on the Hunt/Lauda battle. Then, there's always Turbo! Craig  (talk)  07:26, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Both Houses I predict... I only know about Turbo due to the fact that it was getting serially advertised when I was in Canada in the summer prior to its July release. Whether it's any good is another matter... Interestingly, Rush has an 88% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, compared to 63% for Le Mans, whereas the TT movie has 100%. It is outstanding; just as good as Senna, which is saying something. Craig  (talk)  19:54, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * 67% for Turbo, funnily enough! Craig  (talk)  00:48, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Personally, I think it's one for kids, but I'll still view it at some point. Not at the cinema, though. Craig  (talk)  20:54, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Not even that; TV premiere down the line, haha! Craig  (talk)  21:04, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Haha. Closer to the Edge is on ITV tonight. Oh well! Craig (talk)  21:38, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Time to hit record! Craig  (talk)  22:24, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Mick Fleetwood again
Hello mate. Could you give me a hand re: his divorce from Boyd? I've got sources that state it was in 1973 that he discovered it, kicked Weston out and then went to Zambia with Christine, and he and Boyd had 2 children at the time, and then I've got sources that say it was in 1975 while touring for Fleetwood Mac that it was discovered, and that they had two children at the time. Do you know what is correct? The article says both at the moment. S.G.(GH) ping! 16:43, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

re: IGotProof
Harsh? He added information that required verification. Reverting and warning him isn't harsh at all; in fact, it's the recommended procedure. Can you prove that IGotProof's information was "factually correct" as you say? "Infobox material doesn't necessarily need sourcing"? That's very interesting... can you please point me to the guideline that states that? Because that's a new one to me. <i style="color:#999999;">ChakaKong</i><sup style="color:#0033FF;">Let's talk about it 12:22, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Well then by all means, source all that stuff if the sources are out there. What do you want me to do? I really can't be bothered reverting everything I find that requires a source. The editor in question has a history of adding unsourced content and ignoring helpful warnings to desist. This isn't a discussion that has much potential to produce anything constructive or positive, thus I see no purpose in continuing it. <i style="color:#999999;">ChakaKong</i><sup style="color:#0033FF;">Let's talk about it 18:53, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * In the future, when you come across a specific good faith edit which annoys you, such as the one in question, it may be less ineffectual to simply discuss on the article talk page, rather than initiating a potentially irrelevant dispute, as you ultimately elected to do. Cheers, mate. <i style="color:#999999;">ChakaKong</i><sup style="color:#0033FF;">Let's talk about it 20:24, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Mistake
Was indeed a mistake, big apologies for that! Thanks for sorting it out for me...will try to avoid that in future! Hedgefall (talk) 14:00, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Afolabi Obafemi
Do you have a source for Obafemi's loans to Scarborough and Sudbury? User:Simon nelson 19:20, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Hypocrisy
Do you not think it's rich that you and several other Wikipedia registered users ganged up on me because of the way I put in timestamps and locked several pages because of it, when you put in timestamps the exact same way I do? i.e. Dave Mooney (Leyton Orient). Several of the players whose pages I regularly edit are now locked for no reason and their stats are out of date and/or incorrect. Just find it very strange and somewhat pathetic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.0.202 (talk) 20:22, 28 September 2013 (UTC)


 * If you'd only been a little bit more nosey, you'd have seen that I didn't disagree with your use of timestamps. I do, however, disagree with your rampant edit warring. Until you understand basic editing, stuff like this will happen. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:58, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

How is it me that is edit warring? I'm not the person removing correct timestamps and locking pages for no logical reason whatsoever. What am I doing that constitutes vandalism? Surely there are better priorities? If you don't disagree with my use of timestamps, then you should be vouching for me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.11.48 (talk) 02:21, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Reid_(footballer)

This page has been locked to prevent me editing it. I guarantee that Reid will make several more appearances up until 22/10 and his page will be left unedited. And all because I put in e.g. 28 September or match played 28 September instead of 11:37 28 September. Absolute madness! Pages should only be locked because of vandalism or libel reasons; not because of arbitrary nonsense like timestamps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.11.48 (talk) 02:26, 29 September 2013 (UTC)


 * What are you doing that constitutes vandalism? You reverted that article seven times in a day and a half. That's why it's now protected. Whatever your disagreement, regardless of whether you're right or wrong, constant reverting like that will always end up with blocks and protection. As far as admins are concerned, that's a guarantee. Flitting around between different IP addresses is also a good way to get something protected. Bretonbanquet (talk) 10:30, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Guns for Hire
That article hasn't had any references since 2006 and does not indicate notability (it doesn't say that it charted!). Guns For Hire is the name of a band which Department S evolved from, so I was going to craft a disambiguation page out of it. Still, I'd like to see what you can come up with.-- Laun  chba  ller  16:46, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Fantastic, thank you.-- Laun  chba  ller  18:19, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

UK in BLP
I've looked back at discussions regarding removing UK from England locations (but not from locations in Scotland or Wales) and it doesn't seem like there was any agreement on how to address this. Did you see this behavior persisting? Liz <sup style="font-family:Times New Roman;"><b style="color:#006400;">Read!</b> <b style="color:#006400;">Talk!</b> 16:40, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

Mick Fleetwood quality scale
Why is Mick Fleetwood's page only start class? It should at least be B-class. Thanks!Dobbyelf62 (talk) 23:01, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Reply flags
Thank you for your post on my talk page. I appreciate your concern. I replied the user because he's attack on our WikiProject was unfounded since other WikiProjects use flags in similar quantities than we do. That said it's certainly not my intention to antagonize the MOSFlags people. The last thing I wouldn't wan't is to have all our flags removed. Tvx1 (talk) 00:13, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Possible sock
Hey Breton, I'm hoping you might be able to help me out with something. I'm editing from a mobile device these days, so it's difficult for me to get really involved, but I think we've got a sock puppet running around the Formula 1 pages. Again. Worse, I think it's Lucy-Marie or Eff Won. Again.

User:FootballCleaner recently showed up on the 2014 Formula One season page, arguing over the inclusion of PURE under the team changes section, claiming that the company was dead and all mention of it should be removed from the article. However valid the argument, he made a huge fuss over what was perhaps the least-important detail on the page, which was always Lucy's way of operating. Then he started edit-warring over it until the other editors formed a tenuous consensus to keep it, which is again something else Lucy likes to do. Next, he started an AFD for the PURE article without informing anyone and got the page deleted. Looking at the AFD, he made no case beyond "no notability". Finally, I posted a message about this on his talk page, and found he is in the habit of deleting comments from other users, which was always Lucy's favourite way of responding to criticism.

So can you please take a look at this and see what you think? Maybe we can handle it better this time - last time, four of us nearly got blocked when Lucy got wind of it and sweet-talked an admin into believing she was being persecuted without actually addressing any of the issues with her editing. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 22:09, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Bemused
Why do you revert my edits every time I update Dave Mooney's appearances and goal tallies? And then put in the exact same appearances and goal tallies?

I'm not angry because the appearances and goal tallies are exactly the same. I'm just utterly baffled as to why you do it. I'd love to hear your point of view on this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.14.15 (talk) 15:56, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Other people's user pages
I hate editing other people's user pages - but that seemed necessary.--  &#127866;  Antiqueight  confer 12:51, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * At least the incorrect report has been fixed..--  &#127866;  Antiqueight  confer 13:01, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Apologies
I saw the wrong username, should be Amaraaa StandNThrow (talk) 12:55, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It is really my fault. Sincere apologies. Sorry much. StandNThrow (talk) 12:56, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Anything regarding you removed. StandNThrow (talk) 12:57, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I assumed it was a mistake when you were mentioned at RfPP. I've blocked the other user (the actual vandal). Logs are easy to misread when done quickly dealing with an offensive vandal like that one. Ged  UK  13:17, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, yes. I was suddenly accused of vandalism in a couple of places and I thought it might be either a sock of the vandal, or a mistake. Luckily it was the latter. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:20, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

advice
It is not necessary to continue defending yourself about the insult at the AfD. It has been noticed, and, if continued, will be dealt with. It will be much safer to stay clear of it--don't fall into the temptation of responding to such talk, but stick to the topic--this is always more effective.  DGG ( talk ) 03:52, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I appreciate it. I'm glad it hasn't gone unnoticed. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 11:30, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Freimütig under SPI
Hey Breton,

I've got another sock for you. I noticed your comment on the PURE AfD about User:Freimütig possibly being a sock of DeFacto. In the past 48 hours, his actions on Red Bull RB10 have brought me into agreement on that count, so I've started up an SPI. I quoted your observations on the AfD in the SPI, so I thought you a) should know and b) might like to contribute, particularly what led you to suspect Freimütig is DeFacto. Given that there have been over 60 separate accounts and IP addresses investigated as being him in the past eighteen months, then we may have to consider something even more drastic should this prove to be accurate, like going to long-term abuse. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 02:50, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Senna
There is nothing wrong with the Senna edit and im just stating fact from the references, that he is often considered to be and voted the greatest of all time — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.229.230.189 (talk) 15:14, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Damn...
Such sad news this one. End of an era in IndyCar racing. Also, nice to see our teams are still occupying the top 2. Orient as short as 3/1 to win the league! Craig (talk)  20:40, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * From an accident such as that, he was lucky to survive. The crash at the time reminded me of the crash that befell Jeff Krosnoff at Toronto in 1996, due to the street circuit proximities. But yeah, I can see Franchitti as a pundit of some sorts. Would fit in well in either commentary booth for the networks that show the races. Your result over Peterborough has opened up a bit of a buffer between our teams and them. I note you have Preston at the weekend; we stuttered to a draw against them, in a game of few chances. Beware! Craig  (talk)  08:05, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Akin to what Jackie Stewart used to do over there alongside Jim McKay, I agree. Hard luck against Preston; always a tough game against them, as we found out on opening day. Craig  (talk)  17:00, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * We're at home next two games which may be beneficial, against Brentford and Tranmere before a trip to London Road on the 30th. Still another four weeks beyond that to Orient's trip to Molineux. Craig  (talk)  17:34, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a nasty trio of games there. Stern tests from all three there, I feel. We've beaten all three this season; Swindon and Bristol City by the odd goal and Sheffield United by two. Mind you, from looking at the table, Swindon are top six and the other two are bottom six, which is staggering. Peterborough have Walsall, Stevenage and Brentford to play before they play us. That's even tougher. Hopefully the margin over them is double digits come the 30th. Craig  (talk)  17:46, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it was more a case of manager not working out for Sheffield United, with the David Weir experiment going so helplessly wrong. Oddly enough, Orient have drifted behind Peterborough in the betting to win the league. Wolves are still favourites at 4/6 in places, Peterborough 7/2 and Orient 4/1 with 10/1 Brentford. In the case of promotion, Wolves 1/8 isn't even worth betting, Peterborough 10/11 and Orient the reverse at 11/10. Three out of these four for the three promotion places come the end of May.
 * Those are the six teams that will be there at the end of the season, although I feel you lot and Peterborough will be the other way around. Craig  (talk)  01:27, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Ugh, back down to second again. Nice win for you lot, although it is definitely overshadowed with what went down on the pitch with your keeper. Utterly bonkers. Craig (talk)  23:02, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Could've resulted in this or this. Craig  (talk)  02:39, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yeah, Dida did get banned for it. One match reduced from two. It still makes me laugh how bad the play-acting was. Craig  (talk)  15:18, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Lasting moment of the 2002 World Cup along with Ronaldinho's free-kick! Craig  (talk)  20:32, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks for keeping that spot warm again! Mind you, there is a large crevice between you lot and Preston now! Craig (talk)  21:47, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Peterborough getting beat is always good for our mindset into this weekend. Eleven unbeaten we are at present. Nearing your run! Craig  (talk)  22:48, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Still a month off yet that meeting. Still got numerous games before then, without the adage of the FA Cup! Preston and Brentford, as I previously suggested. Peterborough falling off the boil was also predicted too! Craig  (talk)  23:26, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I just don't think they can muster goals away from Assombalonga. Too much to conga. I'll get my coat. Craig  (talk)  23:48, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The [insert poor comedian] homage Barnstar. Haha. Craig  (talk)  23:54, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

The yo-yo effect continues... Craig (talk)  16:56, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Apparently, Bostwick's goal was against the run of play. So that says it all on how well we took our chances today. Yeah, each of the six teams below us (including Peterborough) all won today. There is still a six-point buffer, but it's theoretically seven with the goal difference. I'm concerned with any potential follow-up result to this. Got the weekend off next weekend of course with no Cup game, so I would imagine a lot of hours on the training ground. Craig  (talk)  17:16, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The amazing statistic out of today's result was the fact that this was Peterborough's first win over us at home. They've got a winning record at Molineux, but had never beaten us at home until today. They gubbed us 3–0 on Boxing Day last year; wild. MK Dons at home for us. Iffy team at the best of times! Craig  (talk)  17:30, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It's going to tighten up again, sadly... And yeah, the list here. October 1983, amazingly. Craig  (talk)  17:56, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Still 27 games more for fun to occur! Craig  (talk)  18:39, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I've had to stomach that, the last two seasons; no way did I ever want three. Craig  (talk)  20:18, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Sock Puppets
I am almost positive that "Fleetwoodmacfactedits" and "everywherelittlelies87" are the same person. They add the same thing to the same article. Both users never leave an edit summary. Both users make several back to back edits, just look at the revision history. Do you think they're sock puppets? Dobbyelf62 (talk) 22:16, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's the IP. The IP is still active so it's unlikely that this person is editing under an IP and a username. Well have to see if this continues. Hopefully this person will go away after a few days. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 01:53, 1 December 2013 (UTC)