User:Brews ohare/Proposed edits

Proposed change to Subject-object problem
In the section Limitations of scientific theory, it is proposed to remove the warning template shown below:

Along with this removal it is proposed to remove the header Limitations of scientific theory, which does not describe the contents of the subsection. An in-line comment "See Talk page" is to be provided, and on the Talk page it is proposed to add the following two sub-sections:
 * Removal of importance template 
 * An importance template was added to flag the section Limitations of scientific theory. No explanation was provided as to what exactly was considered of "questionable importance or relevance". So far as I can determine all points raised in this section are pertinent and the opinions of several published sources are quoted verbatim.


 * The matters in the affected paragraphs appear pertinent to the subject-object problem, pointing out the creative and subjective aspects underlying ostensibly objective theories, and thereby affecting the subject-object problem (all discussed more below), and do not support a description as of "questionable importance or relevance"


 * As no reasons for attachment of the template have been provided, I have removed it.


 * The template was posted and removed before, with a request for justification. It is hoped that some attempt will be made on this occasion to participate in a Talk page discussion in the hope of further developing the material in this article, and as a matter of simple etiquette on WP. Brews ohare (talk) 20:08, 25 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Removal of header Limitations of scientific theory 
 * The header "Limitations of scientific theory" is poorly chosen and does not represent the topic of this section. This header was not present in earlier drafts, but was inserted by Richardbrucebaxter.


 * The objective of the flagged section is not so much to point out limitations, but to point out the creative and intuitive aspects involved during the process of invention of a scientific theory, which are subjective aspects involved in the construction of a supposedly 'objective' theory. The social and personal environment of scientists also may be conducive to or inhibit such invention, and these influences affect the relation between the subjective inventor and the objective theory.


 * Because the header Limitations of scientific theory is not descriptive of these paragraphs, and because this material fits naturally into the existing subsection, I have removed this header.  Brews ohare (talk) 20:08, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Comments upon this proposed change to Subject-object problem

 * Brews ohare's comment: This section is about identifying matters that lie outside scientific knowledge, supposing that there are such things. The subject is outside physics and so is not "physics related". However, it suggests that the creative aspects of physics are not themselves a subject studied within physics, so JohnBlackburne might suggest that drawing a line between physics and not-physics is physics related. That argument seems forced to me.
 * Beyond this argument, however, the removal of the template is not physics-related, but concerns proper use of a template. So that could be done without brokering a discussion of the ban on physics-related topics. A rejoinder to the removal by Richardbrucebaxter, however, might have to be attended to with care to avoid the "'drawing a line' crosses the line" argument. For example, saying the material in this subsection is irrelevant can be countered by saying that this material refers to the page topic, and so is relevant to the topic, without making any claim as to what the subject is about. Brews ohare (talk) 18:10, 22 February 2013 (UTC)