User:Brianjd/Spoiler (media)

I believe that spoilers without spoiler warnings are unacceptable and cannot see the slightest problem with the warnings, except for a negligible space/bandwidth/etc. cost.

I came back to Wikipedia after a while to read the Bee Movie article, and was disappointed to see a spoiler with no warning, and even more disappointed to see that spoiler was deleted. I have happily used spoiler in the past and cannot understand any of the arguments against it.

Changes between revisions of MiszaBot's page
MiszaBot maintains a list of pages using spoiler templates. I don't know which templates MiszaBot is actually tracking (I just assumed initially that it was only spoiler).

The following list contains all changes between revisions 180879205 [2007-12-29T23:15:16 (GMT)] and 185148015 [2008-01-18T05:15:24 (GMT)]. All times are in GMT.


 * Between 2007-12-29, 23:15 and 2007-12-30, 05:15: Removed from Wizardmon, Template talk:Spoiler and Template talk:Spoiler-about.
 * Between 2007-12-30, 11:15 and 2007-12-30, 17:15: Added to The Gingerbread Man.
 * Between 2007-12-30, 23:15 and 2007-12-31, 05:15: Removed from The Gingerbread Man and Templates for deletion; added to User talk:Collectonian/Archive 2.
 * Between 2007-12-31, 05:15 and 2007-12-31, 11:15: Added to Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (season 2).
 * Between 2007-12-31, 11:15 and 2007-12-31, 17:15: Removed from Talk:Steven Caldwell (Stargate), User:Danbarnesbavies/List of characters in Waterloo Road and User:DBD/Holby City cast.
 * Between 2007-12-31, 17:15 and 2007-12-31, 23:15: Removed from User:GunnarRene/RahEp.
 * Between 2008-01-01, 11:15 and 2008-01-01, 17:15: Added to User talk:Majorly/Archives/All.
 * Between 2008-01-01, 17:15 and 2008-01-01, 23:15: Removed from Law & Order: Special Victims Unit (season 2).
 * Between 2008-01-02, 05:15 and 2008-01-02, 11:15: Removed from User talk:Ibaranoff24/Archive05; added to User talk:Ibaranoff24/Archive02.
 * Between 2008-01-02, 11:15 and 2008-01-02, 17:15: Added to Big Trouble (novel).
 * Between 2008-01-03, 05:15 and 2008-01-03, 11:15: Removed from Big Trouble (novel).
 * Between 2008-01-03, 17:15 and 2008-01-03, 23:15: Added to EV Override.
 * Between 2008-01-03, 23:15 and 2008-01-04, 05:15: Removed from EV Override; added to Requests for page protection.
 * Between 2008-01-04, 11:15 and 2008-01-04, 17:15: Removed from User talk:Misza13/Archives.
 * Between 2008-01-05, 05:15 and 2008-01-05, 11:15: Removed from Requests for page protection.
 * Between 2008-01-05, 11:15 and 2008-01-05, 17:15: Removed from User talk:Xoloz; added to User talk:Xoloz/archive21.
 * Between 2008-01-06, 23:15 and 2008-01-07, 05:15: Added to Help desk.
 * Between 2008-01-07, 23:15 and 2008-01-08, 05:15: Removed from User talk:Phil Sandifer; added to Talk:The Lord of the Rings film trilogy.
 * 2008-01-08T16:47:30: Used on the page that was moved from User:SGCommand/Main/Directory/09 (the redirect was deleted soon after) to User:SGCommand/Directory/09.
 * Between 2008-01-08, 17:15 and 2008-01-08, 23:15: Removed from Talk:Silent Hill 2 (film).
 * Between 2008-01-09, 11:15 and 2008-01-09, 17:15: Removed from User talk:Kusma; added to Carolyn Bigsby and User talk:Kusma/Archive 16.
 * Between 2008-01-09, 17:15 and 2008-01-09, 23:15: Removed from Carolyn Bigsby; used on the page that was moved from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/archive9 to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 9.
 * Between 2008-01-10, 05:15 and 2008-01-10, 11:15: Removed from Requested templates; added to Requested templates/Uncategorized.
 * Between 2008-01-10, 17:15 and 2008-01-10, 23:15: Removed from Talk:Chronology of the Harry Potter stories; added to Talk:Chronology of the Harry Potter stories/Archive 1.
 * Between 2008-01-10, 23:15 and 2008-01-11, 05:15: Added to Help desk/Archives/2008 January 7.
 * Between 2008-01-11, 17:15 and 2008-01-11, 23:15: Removed from User:TravisTX/monobook old.js (page was deleted).
 * Between 2008-01-11, 23:15 and 2008-01-12, 05:15: Removed from Help desk; added to Isis Adventure.
 * Between 2008-01-12, 05:15 and 2008-01-12, 11:15: Added to The Awakening (Avatar: The Last Airbender).
 * Between 2008-01-12, 11:15 and 2008-01-12, 17:15: Removed from Isis Adventure, The Awakening (Avatar: The Last Airbender) and User:Berserker79/b79sandbox.
 * Between 2008-01-13, 17:15 and 2008-01-13, 23:15: Added to Talk:Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, in the second comment by Fairchoice.
 * 2008-01-14T04:54:25: Added to Nivela by Ogdeniam (see below).
 * Between 2008-01-14, 05:15 and 2008-01-14, 11:15: Removed from Talk:Hagrid's pets, Talk:Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince and Talk:The Amazing Race; added to User:Brianjd/Spoiler (see below).
 * Between 2008-01-14, 11:15 and 2008-01-14, 17:15: Removed from User:Lusk1993.
 * 2008-01-14T22:58:50: Added to Push the Talking Trash Can by NoseNuggets (see below).
 * 2008-01-15T03:13:06: Added to Abra-Catastrophe! by Schwarzlicht (see below).
 * Between 2008-01-15, 05:15 and 2008-01-15, 11:15: Used on the page that was moved from User:Brianjd/Spoiler to User:Brianjd/Spoiler (media); added to User talk:NoseNuggets, User talk:Ogdeniam and User talk:Schwarzlicht.
 * 2008-01-15T08:54:56: Removed from Abra-Catastrophe! by me (see below).
 * 2008-01-15T09:07:44: Removed from Nivela by me (see below).
 * Between 2008-01-15, 23:15 and 2008-01-16, 05:15: Removed from User:Masamage/Sands.
 * Between 2008-01-16, 05:15 and 2008-01-16, 11:15: Added to Talk:List of characters in The Elenium and The Tamuli and User:Brianjd.
 * 2008-01-16T07:46:16: Removed from Push the Talking Trash Can by me (see below).
 * 2008-01-17T03:18:40: Added to The Hole (film) by 69.42.17.253 (see below).
 * Between 2008-01-17, 05:15 and 2008-01-17, 11:15: Removed from User talk:Liquidfinale/Archive 1; added to User talk:69.42.17.253 and User talk:Steve/Archive 1.
 * 2008-01-17T07:22:09: Removed from The Hole (film) by me (see below).
 * Between 2008-01-17, 17:15 and 2008-01-17, 23:15: Added to Wikipedia talk:Spoiler/old template talk.

Pages edited by me
Now that spoiler has been deleted, references to it should be removed. For this reason, and this reason alone, I have removed spoiler from the following pages/sections of pages:


 * Articles:
 * Abra-Catastrophe!:
 * added by Schwarzlicht after spoiler was deleted;
 * removed by me
 * Nivela:
 * added by Ogdeniam after spoiler was deleted;
 * removed by me
 * Push the Talking Trash Can:
 * removed by Marc Shepherd before(?) (2007-09-05T00:11:40) spoiler was deleted;
 * next added by NoseNuggets after spoiler was deleted;
 * next removed by NoseNuggets, who in the same edit, added spoilers and end-spoilers in different locations to where spoiler and end-spoiler were before;
 * in the next edit, NoseNuggets changed spoilers to spoiler and end-spoilers to end-spoiler;
 * in the next edit, NoseNuggets changed spoiler to Spoiler and end-spoiler to Endspoiler;
 * in the next edit, NoseNuggets changed Spoiler to spoiler and Endspoiler to spoilerend
 * in the next edit, I removed spoiler and spoilerend
 * The Hole (film):
 * added by 69.42.17.253 after spoiler was deleted;
 * removed by me.
 * Talk pages:
 * Talk:Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (introduction) (removed by me)
 * Talk:Hagrid's pets (section: Flute given by Hagrid?) (removed by me)
 * Talk:The Amazing Race (introduction) (removed by me)

On the talk pages, it was being used a spoiler warning for the discussion. The talk page for The Amazing Race also has a section on spoilers.

Current use of spoiler
spoiler is used on the following non-talk pages (list is incomplete):


 * Appears to be used seriously:
 * User:Alba/Work in progress
 * User:Alerante/Scratch/Holes
 * User:DropDeadGorgias/Ruining it for everyone
 * User:Francis Schonken/List of borderline fictional characters
 * User:Hooloovoo/Otherland
 * User:JWSchmidt/Art Gallery
 * User:Kukkurovaca/Sewer, Gas & Electric: The Public Works Trilogy
 * User:Lifefeed/Book template
 * User:Michael Rawdon/Temp/X-Men
 * User:Ryanasaurus007/Sailor Moon
 * User:Ryanasaurus0077/Star Wars
 * User:Brianjd
 * User:Brianjd/Spoiler (media)
 * User:Vogon/Paranoia rewrite
 * Appears to be used as a joke:
 * User:Henry Flower
 * User:Hypercube
 * User:Ich
 * User:Jensaarai
 * User:Jimmycochrane
 * User:Wiglaf
 * User:Jerzy/Bookmarks
 * Boilerplate text
 * Boilerplate text

It is linked to from the following non-talk pages (list is incomplete):


 * User:KF/For future reference (also has some interesting stuff - note that Wikipedia talk:Spoiler has been archived)
 * User:OwenBlacker/My contributions
 * List of spoiler-warnings without msg
 * Protection log/Archive 1
 * Tip of the day/2004 archive

Discussions
I have contributed to the following discussions:


 * Wikipedia:Spoiler (talk page)
 * Spoilers outside of fictional-work articles

Arguments for and against spoiler warnings and spoiler
Here are the arguments, followed by my responses:

For

 * 1) They assist people to avoid spoilers, which most people want to.
 * 2) If reliable sources have used a warning, so should we, in the same way as if reliable sources have included the plot, then so should we (NPOV).

Against

 * 1) Aesthetics (is that spelt correctly?)
 * 2) Spoiler warnings that are only visible to users who choose to see them are better than no warnings.
 * 3) They are "unencyclopedic".
 * 4) I agree that this is rather like a medieval shipwright calling metal ships "unshiplike" (see below).
 * 5) There is a lack of consensus on when they should be used.
 * 6) Surely there are some articles where there is a consensus.

For

 * 1) It provides a standard spoiler warning.

Against

 * 1) It's unused (for the reasons above?).
 * 2) Apparently, a small group of users have been removing them all faster than a large number of users have been adding them. "It's far easier to remove tags than add them." [ PyTom (talk)]
 * 3) It's better to use current fiction.
 * 4) This has also been deleted.
 * 5) Why should warnings be restricted to recent releases?
 * 6) What is "current" anyway (see below)?

"Unencyclopedic"?
"'Unencyclopedic' is a just a coded way of saying 'I don't like it'. The claim, offered by the anti-spoiler people, that encyclopedias don't have spoiler warnings, is unsupported by any known definition of encyclopedia, and seems to just have been made up by them. It's rather like a medieval shipwright insisting that all ships must be made of wood, and a metal ship is fundamentally 'unshiplike'. The reason (most) other encyclopedias don't have them is technical limitations or niche audiences."

- Nydas(Talk) 11:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

"According to WP:UNENCYCLOPEDIC, "... is so vague, it gives no information on why the article should be deleted." (Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions) Therefore, I recommend that your vote be appropriately discounted by the closer."

- Milo 11:47, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

"Current"?
"The film Rescue Dawn premiered September 9, 2006 at the Toronto Film Festival. Its first wide release was July 27, 2007 in the United States. It won't be released in Russia until February 21, 2008."

- Pixelface 20:38, 8 November 2007 (UTC)